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Everything posted by JohnsonJones
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I have not tried to insult you...I merely pointed out that for 2000+ years prior to McKonkie's attempt to redefine the term...Damnation literally means Damnation. It still does, in fact, mean the same thing it has always meant. That is, it is a curse. It means condemned to eternal torment in Hell. The bible is Not vague on this, or is it something subtle. This is probably why other religions get the idea that there ARE only two outcomes...Heaven or Hell. In truth, that is correct, you either suffer eternity in damnation, or you are saved from Damnation in the Kingdom of Heaven. To say otherwise is like pointing to a dog and trying to tell someone that it is actually a butterfly. Just because you are trying to redefine it as something else does not change the meaning of the word. It also specifies that being in the Telestial world means that someone has received salvation, as per the doctrine found in the Doctrine and Covenants (as pointed out above in 76:88), or as we understand, are heirs of salvation. Salvation is the opposite of Damnation. Mckonkie's idea was that Salvation ONLY meant Exaltation...but Salvation and Exaltation typically are used as two different terms in LDS culture (and this entire discussion is more a cultural aspect in many ways anyways). Salvation means being saved...in this case saved from Physical and Spiritual Death. Exaltation on the otherhand is receiving all that the Lord has and being able to progress eternally (many various ideas on this, but I think one major aspect is that you grow in glory through your progeny, or as you have spirit children and they grow, this increases your own kingdom and glory in accordance with them). I find it interesting your inferences about Higher Level education. I'm not sure if you've caught what I do for a living...but that's really not here or there. The IRONY of it though, could be seen as particularly hilarious. In regards to your thoughts on definitions, some definitions change over time, but a thesis paper's purpose normally is NOT to change a definition of a word. If it is going to that degree and the definition is not the heart of the thesis...that thesis may be in major trouble already. Writing depends on a common understanding of words rather than someone trying to redefine the entire dictionary on their own. Without this common understanding, we become like the tower of Babel. What one MIGHT do is to expand the understanding of a word, inclusive of various definitions that have been used in the past, specifying the intent with another definition common in the past or in a field that is uncommon in the general usage. One may also have a redefinition as their thesis or an assignment of a word as such a thesis...but that would be the focus of the thesis rather than a arbitrary or side attempt at redefinition. In this Light, I do not agree with Mckonkie in that aspect either. His idea has been expressed by others as saying...they would be in Hell if they could not spend eternity with their spouse...family...etc, even if in the Telestial Kingdom or Terrestrial Kingdom. Thus, the idea is that for them, this is a sort of Hell. However, I think this idea undermines the idea of the Telestial or Terrestrial, or even of this earth, for as soon as one's spouse or a family member dies...one would then have to say they are spending their days in Hell until they pass away themselves...which I find is counterintuitive to finding joy in the Gospel and the Lord while in our time on this Earth (of which the glory of the Telestial is supposed to dwarf...even though our Earth is supposed to be a Telestial World). In essence in trying to utilize this idea of being in Hell because of regret and loss because one does not make it to the Celestial and is instead in the Telestial or Terrestrial is trying to expand HELL into being included with the Kingdom of Heaven, or at least parts of it. This is the excuse of why Damnation may apply to those who are found in the Telestial or Terrestrial Kingdoms...but it is also one that I personally do NOT AGREE with. Damnation is the opposite of Salvation, and so in my opinion it makes no sense to conflate the two. You may agree with it (Mckonkie's definition and idea on this particular thought), but it would be an aspect that we would have to disagree with each other on.
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Well, part of it is that the LDS leadership seems to have a target number in mind. When it goes above that number they add requirements and get stricter on who can go and who cannot. When it goes under (not really happened for a while) they seem to get FAR more lax on the requirements. I don't think they are discouraged yet...but if missionary numbers keep sinking (and a lot of that probably has to do with the restrictions they've put in place in regards to mental disabilities...such as dyslexia (of all things)...and other things I would not consider that great of a handicap) they might start to rethink how they are running the program and who are being allowed to go and the encouragements they have to get people to go on their missions.
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Well, I was going to take some young grandkids to Peter Rabbit at the dollar cinemas...but for some reason Grandma disagreed (people think I'm far off the end on Mormonism cultural items such as no caffeine and such...she's actually stricter than I am). I am not sure why...but she did what she does when she doesn't want us to go. Dinner just happened to get on the table too late for us to eat and then go to the movie, or she needed me to do a chore before we went that took more time so the movie was already started by the time I finished. So, instead I bought some boxes of candy (Mike and Ike), popped several bags of popcorn (one bag for each kid), got a liter of Root Beer and gave each of the grandkids one, and we watched "An American Tale" tonight. Turned off all the lights and watched it on our biggest screen TV (well, me and all the grandkids here under the age of 8, the other's decided to play boardgames and video games instead). I was surprised, most of the grandkids had not seen this movie before. Unsure why my kids didn't show my grandkids this movie before this. We now need to watch the sequel sometime, "Fieval goes West".
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The definition of Damnation in the English language means eternal condemnation to suffering in Hell. The Telestial Kingdom is specifically NOT in Hell and many in the Telestial Kingdom have been saved from Hell. We get this definition from the Greek and Latin... This is why it differentiates those who go to their damnation and those who are saved from such, even when suffering it, by the Lord. If you IGNORE the English language and it's definition and how we came to this idea...well...then you go into arenas where you can say all sorts of things. This is why I disagree with McKonkie on this. He tried to create a NEW definition NOT defined in the Latin or English and correlate it with a Dam, which means something entirely different then the actual other word. The reason it is considered a curse word is because it quite literally a curse upon someone in an attempt to send them to eternal suffering. The Telestial Kingdom is part of the Kingdom of the Lord and one of the three degrees of glory...quite the opposite of eternal suffering in Hell.
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Not exactly. It does not say they are not in the Kingdom of Heaven, for they ARE in the Kingdom of Heaven. However, they are in the Lowest degree of Heaven. Hence, they cannot go to the Terrestrial and especially cannot go to the Celestial Kingdom in their Telestial bodies. it only specifies that they cannot go where the lord and the Father dwell...but at the same time specifies that they are indeed in the Kingdom of Heaven...as servants of the Most High. In this we have the Kingdom's of the Lord and the worlds thereof under his dominions...from the same section verse 88 specifies that they are actually heirs of salvation. And in context of 112 it says...
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You could actually make all those points about the US as well, though you'd have to replace Muslim with Hispanics and Ethnic Germans with White Americans. Are you going to say East Germany's reach is so powerful it's also included the US in that metric? As for Korea, though many alive today may not remember it, this is NOT the first time leaders have pledged peace and an end to the hostilities. Thus far, it has never worked out before. Conservatives in Korea are stating it could also be a ruse (the current leader in Korea is a very HUGE liberal). I'll wait and see. It COULD be peace, but at the same time, it could simply be N. Korea using the liberal tendencies of the current president to lower their forces and ability so that they can swing that million man army over the border. I don't know. I'll wait and see. It might finally be that they are calling an end to the armistice and that they'll go for a more united Korea, or it could mean something entirely different. The Liberal Koreans seem to be on board, the Conservatives seem to be far more skeptical. I suppose it would be similar if the Taliban said they were wanting peace with the US and met with Obama (when he was President) and said that they were now going to be at peace with the US. I think the Democrats would use it as a talking point in the next elections, and the Republicans would call into question whether the Taliban meant it or not, especially without any other signs that they actually meant what they said such as de-arming, or any other measures. Words are just that...words. Until massive action is taken, it doesn't mean much, especially in light of all the other things that have happened in the past with North and South Korea (and at one point they were actually CLOSER to peace than they are currently, and had more things united on that front than they have recently). So...hopefully the North means it this time (and the South Korean president isn't simply being gullible like the Conservative Koreans are claiming), but I don't know how serious they are or not. If it is successful though, I'd probably agree with Anatess that the Trump Cabinet probably had a lot to do with it. The reason I say Crimea was bigger (beyond probably having a more Eurocentric family [as in, immediate family that lives in Germany and Europe] so it probably affected me more) because of it's impact. We see the first steps of a much more aggressive and hostile Russia to the rest of Europe. It is the first step of seizure of land illegally (much like Hitler started out seizing land with various excuses), started a war with the Ukraine, and set up the current day "almost cold war" that is currently going on between Europe/US (NATO) and Russia. In the long run, it could have FAR greater ramifications if it eventually leads to a continental war in Europe, or worse, another World War that we even managed to avoid in the Cold War twenty years ago. Even now Syria has basically become a proxy war between the US and it's allies and Russia. Many Europeans see those ramifications, interesting that Americans do not.
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Have you been to Germany? Have family and relatives there and from there? Visited? My thoughts on Germany is exactly the opposite by a MASSIVE degree. I think you are confusing some Socialist advances with Communism and vice versa, but MANY (perhaps even most) of those socialistic advances you may object to actually were in existence BEFORE Germany was reunited. Germany today is NOTHING like the Eastern German block was in the 80s, and FAR more like West Germany has been all along. There are things I do not agree with in how Germany handles things, but I do not see the philosophies of the East having taken over by any means or measure. Your statement is a good way to offend some Germans though. It may be. Time will tell. I am wondering if the Trump policies in regards to North Korea forced them to become desperate enough to start discussions like these. Then the other half of me wonders if this will be a ploy by North Korea to get South Korea to lower it's defenses and when the South thinks all is well...invade with a million man army. I don't know...I suppose we'll see what happens in the next few years. It could be a pretty big thing (though I'd say other items were just as big if not bigger than 9/11 in regards to the world, or at least Europe. For example, Crimea was a pretty big issue and event that affected a LOT of Europe and perhaps more people than if North and South Korea make peace and eventually reunite).
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Also, I differ from Mckonkie on some aspects of Damnation. Damnation is NOT a Dam, but it is a condemnation to eternal exclusion from the Lord and his kingdom. ONLY Sons of Perdition have eternal Damnation, and those who have to pay for their sins (in my thought, at least until they accept the Lord and his atonement at which point they will be sanctified and saved in the Telestial Kingdom) will eventually also be saved in the Kingdom of our Lord (albeit the lowest degree of salvation). Only those in the Celestial Glory are able to have eternal exaltation, and it is silent on whether they can advance between degrees in the Celestial Kingdom or not. My opinion is that there MAY be a way for one to advance between various levels of the Celestial Glory, but that is speculation, rather than anything stated in the scriptures that I know of. On the otherhand, it is not silent on whether one can advance between different kingdoms or not (the scriptures imply one that is in the telestial glory remains as such and the same applies to that of the terrestrial, however, even within each kingdom are different degrees just like the Celestial has three degrees...and as such, there may also be advancement between those. We know that the telestial glory differs from individual to individual like the stars in the sky differ in glory and light one from another). Those who are in lower degrees are STILL in the Kingdom of the Lord and hence not separated from him. This is not a condemnation, but a degree of glory (and this is where my and Mckonkie disagree, as he sees it also as a damnation, but I see it as them being glorified, but as the Lord says, there are many mansions in his house). I believe they will be content with where they have gone as they will understand why they are there and have the all the happiness they could. Those who have bodies telestial or terrestrial have bodies for those kingdoms, and it is made according to their attitude and demeanor. I believe it will still be a choice of theirs and ours in the hereafter, and to a degree, WE will be our greatest judge on where we end up in accordance with what will give us the most joy and happiness.
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Also, I differ from Mckonkie on some aspects of Damnation. Damnation is NOT a Dam, but it is a condemnation to eternal exclusion from the Lord and his kingdom. ONLY Sons of Perdition have eternal Damnation, and those who have to pay for their sins (in my thought, at least until they accept the Lord and his atonement at which point they will be sanctified and saved in the Telestial Kingdom) will eventually also be saved in the Kingdom of our Lord (albeit the lowest degree of salvation). Only those in the Celestial Glory are able to have eternal exaltation, and it is silent on whether they can advance between degrees in the Celestial Kingdom or not. My opinion is that there MAY be a way for one to advance between various levels of the Celestial Glory, but that is speculation, rather than anything stated in the scriptures that I know of. Those who are in lower degrees are STILL in the Kingdom of the Lord and hence not separated from him. This is not a condemnation, but a degree of glory (and this is where my and Mckonkie disagree, as he sees it also as a damnation, but I see it as them being glorified, but as the Lord says, there are many mansions in his house). I believe they will be content with where they have gone as they will understand why they are there and have the all the happiness they could. Those who have bodies telestial or terrestrial have bodies for those kingdoms, and it is made according to their attitude and demeanor. I believe it will still be a choice of theirs and ours in the hereafter, and to a degree, WE will be our greatest judge on where we end up in accordance with what will give us the most joy and happiness.
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Starbucks to close 8K stores May 29th for training
JohnsonJones replied to pam's topic in Current Events
Just as a heads up, if you want to watch about 8-10 minutes of video, it is there on Snopes. I posted a link to the website. They have the original video recording of the event that started the entire social media response and thus the reporting of the thing in the news eventually. PS: I was pointing out the various items found via the study done in regards to the event and racial responses. It does not say Trump supporters are Bigots, but their answers in the study (an overwhelming majority which had a VERY different answer than those who were Clinton supporters originally, or blacks or Hispanics overall) which come to different viewpoints than those of others. It can be interesting to think about why different groups have such different viewpoints (in many ways, complete opposite viewpoints) of the same situation. -
Not to detract, but I'm going to have to disagree with the definition of pre-history stated above. Pre-history, simply put, is what occurred before written history. Or, in otherwords, events that occurred before written history. Human pre-history takes place somewhere between 3 million to 3 and half million years ago and the invention and when useful historical records can be found. This varies from culture to culture. For the European areas of Greece and Italy, I believe you are correct, but in regards to the Fertile Crescent and Egypt this occurred far earlier (around 3000 BC as a very rough approximation). Anyways, continue on, just wanted to add my thoughts on this pre-history definition you placed above.
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Starbucks to close 8K stores May 29th for training
JohnsonJones replied to pam's topic in Current Events
For those who are curious, though I know some despise Snopes, Snopes has more on it (as per snopes, it wasn't the manager but a barista that called, so an employee, but not necessarily the manager) including the video of the police engagement and the arrival of the individual the men were supposed to meet at starbucks and the subsequent ignoring of the white individual and arrest of the black men. Snopes philadelphia starbucks arrest -
Starbucks to close 8K stores May 29th for training
JohnsonJones replied to pam's topic in Current Events
?? I'm not sure what you are stating. The articles were directly related to the topic on hand and the different reactions of people to it...so I'm not sure why you stated what you did. It went into detail the vast differences between the perceptions of the whites vs. everyone else in America. Now, not in the articles, but myriads of new articles around the web there IS a timeline that's been put out there...Supposedly... The young gentlemen gave their statements and on the film ironically their appointment actually finally showed up when the police did. The appointment (a businessman) tried to actually convince the police that they had made an appointment there. The video was posted by another person and had started making the rounds that evening. The guys were in jail and were unaware of the filming of it. They found out about it when they called to set another appointment with the individual they were supposed to meet with originally...and that individual informed them. If this was a "staged" event we'd probably have heard of a civil lawsuit suing starbucks already...but as far as I am aware of at this time, they haven't even filed a lawsuit. I do not know the timeline, but some people supposedly that were there (supposedly including the one that did the filming) said that the men came in originally very casually dressed. One asked to use the restroom and were told it was for paying customers only. Some indicated that they had waterjugs on them. They informed the Starbucks that they were there waiting for another person to meet them for a meeting. After around 5 or 6 minutes they were told to leave. At the time, other individuals who had been there for several hours (up to three hours) but were white and had not bought anything recently were NOT asked to leave or asked to do anything in that manner. Back to articles I posted... Original articles indicated it was a manager that called, but apparently it is not as clear as that now. What does seem clear is that there is a difference on how whites and those who are affluent (and especially Trump supporters interestingly enough) vs. those who are black or Hispanic (or were Clinton supporters). The other article actually addresses several others situations similar to Starbucks, but some of those are much more clear in the discrimination (as is Huffington posts way of doing things in it's very LIBERAL style of reporting) against the minorities, but it shows in the Huffington Posts view a clear systematic violation of human rights in favor of discrimination in that article...which also raises some interesting questions in regards to the events at Starbucks that could be had between those who are liberal and those that are conservative. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose if we want to compare it similarly, is if you, as an Asian American had gone to a McDonalds. You were waiting for your wife to come with your kids. You needed to go to the restroom but the employees told you that you could not go unless you bought something. You sit down, obviously NOT buying anything yet. You are still waiting for your wife to get there with your kids. There are some people eating, but many others who are not Asian Americans who have no food or anything of Mcdonalds near them that were there before you. They are using the free Wi-Fi of Mcdonalds. So, the manager comes up to you and says you need to leave within a few minutes of you sitting down. You try to tell them that your wife is meeting you here with your kids. If you leave, your wife may be surprised why you would just leave without telling her. Instead of waiting longer, someone calls the police (possibly one of those even that didn't have any food but was sitting there for hours using the Wi-Fi ironically). The police come and say they are going to remove you. Then your wife DOES arrive. She says that you were actually waiting for her and if you and her could get together. She'll even buy something. The police talk politely to her but say that they now have to arrest you. At this point, do you protest because you do not see why you need to be arrested (which is what these young men did). If you do that, it will be seen as being disorderly on top of being arrested. Do you think this is fair to you? No one who was white was asked to leave, even though they were using the Wi-Fi (you were not) and had been there longer than you without anything on their tables. In addition, your wife was not arrested (I assume she is white), just you. Perhaps you do not see the problem with this...and many Americans do not. On the otherhand, many minorities state that this type of action happens to minorities every day (especially those who are black or Hispanic) and see this as a pattern of behavior. There are several different veiwpoints on the matter. Some may view it that you got what you deserved. You obviously were the cause of the problem. Others may view it as a one time incident. Others may view it that seeing how you were singled out, it was discrimination. The question then, that the polls arise is that there seems to be a divide between how one segment of the US population perceives such incidents vs. that of other segments of the US population. -
Starbucks to close 8K stores May 29th for training
JohnsonJones replied to pam's topic in Current Events
The following two links are to Huffington Post, which I know some here will take instant offense to, but I find that the articles are interesting in addressing the different viewpoints. One, where the plurality (not majority) or whites polled seem to think nothing was wrong while minorities polled have the exact opposite view (sort of like the old South Jim Crow laws where Whites saw nothing wrong, but minorities saw a LOT wrong), and the other where it goes more into detail about a minority's view on racism in the US today. White Americans say SB incident was isolated, Black Americans say it was part of a pattern Also Starbucks Incident reminds us that equality is complicated -
Starbucks to close 8K stores May 29th for training
JohnsonJones replied to pam's topic in Current Events
Of course, the other version is that most companies are not allowed to use racism when they do this. When you have white customers that are doing almost the exact same thing, but let them stay and kick out the minorities instead it sends ramifications of the racist societies from earlier decades that were judged to be unconstitutional and wrong by the courts over 40 years ago. There are certain things that as a public business (private has different rules, sometimes similar, sometimes different) that you are not allowed to do. One of those is racism of possible customers. You cannot keep the white individuals in your store and kick out the minorities for doing the same things. If you kick out the minorities, then you would also kick out the white individuals who were in the same situation. There was this entire thing called the Civil Rights movement you may have heard of that created this type of equality and justice for all citizens of the United States of America. The manager of the store these individuals were kicked out of didn't actually OWN the store or make the policies. They, of their own volition, independent of store policy, choose to let the White individuals continue to stay for hours, while selecting two individuals who were minorities to be kicked out. The concern of those two minorities was that they were waiting for someone for a business meeting and did not want to miss the meeting (which, they did anyways it appears). At least that's what I got from the various stories posted around the news at the time -
I was in with the new Elders Quorum on Sunday. I didn't really see any speculation or nonsense from anyone (maybe it's the ward). I did notice that the Elders tended to be quieter and it was mostly the older Elders (originally known as the High Priest Group) that spoke more during the conversation.
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Do you HAVE to give up coffee or can you choose it away?
JohnsonJones replied to NightShift's topic in General Discussion
You might show her this stuff you wrote...or not. This would be my concern, and perhaps the concern of her church leaders in this instance. If she does NOT want to be an eternal marriage with you BEFORE going to the temple, what is going to change? That last thing they want is to have someone getting sealed in the temple for all eternity just to turn around and decide they want to try to get that cancelled and get a divorce. Whether you go to the temple or not, it sounds as if both sides need to work on their marriage PRIOR to any decisions about going to the temple...and then...if they are united in mind and thought once again, THEN start thinking about going to the temple. -
Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
JohnsonJones replied to classylady's topic in General Discussion
Thanks! -
Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
JohnsonJones replied to classylady's topic in General Discussion
No idea that they needed radio licenses to operate. Hopefully we haven't broken any rules over the years. Most of the ones I buy are from the stores and such. Where would I find out the rules of what is or is not legal? (Sorry, not the most technically literate). -
The only one that knows would be your church leaders, but typically as long as you are truly repentant I expect it that it will not take over 7 months to repent if it is as you say. Now if more went on, I do not know, but you should be completely honest with your Bishop when you go talk to him.
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Passed the Technician Class test for Ham Radio today
JohnsonJones replied to classylady's topic in General Discussion
I was not aware of this. We need a radio license to fly remote control airplanes? I have gotten grandkids several of these over the years...and sometimes we went down to a local park to try to fly them around. Were we doing something wrong when doing this? -
I don't know to be honest. I suppose we'll find out if something happens to Trump (impeachment or assassination) and then Pence thereafter (same). Otherwise, there are many prophecies, but many of them do not bear fruit. On this, only time will tell. If things happen to both Trump and Pence, I'd probably start paying a lot more attention to it, but currently...seems to be a lot of guesswork. I think part of my skepticism is that I think this guy is trying to sell books more than send out warnings or tell what is coming.
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My personal opinion is that the duties are the same, but how we go about them has changed to allow us more free reign on how to accomplish it.
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16 year old water heater - suggestions?
JohnsonJones replied to NeuroTypical's topic in General Discussion
What is an on-demand furnace? For those who are ignorant of such things (like me), I don't know what you just said.