mnn727

Just buy it and surprise her - once its in her fridge whats she going to do?

I've had Romneys in 3 different wards I've been in, there's lots of them. The original Romney in the Church must have had lots of kids.

I was called to teach this in a local Federal Prison - we had 12 - 15 men there every week 3 members (who were themselves imprisoned) and the rest investigators, the class lasted 90 minutes - it was great, we really got into discussing the lessons. Greatest calling I have ever had. Of course by the time you get through security going in, get escorted to the chapel, teach the lesson, fellowship a bit and get escorted out - your Sunday afternoon was pretty much gone - but I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything. We did go in order, but with the extra class time we could discuss a number of side topics if there were any questions.

How about; "Its a 'rarity' when I don't have 'sex with my wife'" ? Seriously for the O.P. people have different sex drives, if you are way out of tune, then yes I would suggest counseling. Check your PM's

Talk with your Bishop first, start the Churches 12 step program, it will help you deal with telling your wife.

jinc has not weighed in on it as of yet, only you, and I am not sure why you are being so antagonistic about this, nor why you appear to be demeaning someones testimony. I will bow out of this until jinc answers as I was trying to answer jinc, not pick a fight with you.

“I Will Not Fail Thee, nor Forsake Thee†- general-conference

No, I went in prayer to God and got a direct testimony from HIM that what I was being taught was true and that He wanted me to be a full part of it. Did you join for a different reason?

Actually having grown up Protestant and investigated many Churches; other than Catholics and their direct, close offshoots (like Lutherern, Angelican, etc) most Christian religions don't study or even care about what the Early Church Fathers wrote. When I investigated the LDS Church I went to the Bible, the BoM and also to God in Prayer. The Early Church Fathers have almost nothing to do with the LDS church, its teachings and doctrines, so if you are truly investigating the LDS Church why keep bringing a source of info that has nothing to do with the Church, and by his own statement early on, he rejected the Church that bases their teachings upon?

anatess, come on, it appears you are intentionally trying to misunderstand. I am talking about his always going to the "Early Church Fathers" writings to promote Catholic teachings rather than LDS or even Protestant beliefs. I'm not talking about his belief in Jesus Christ. I like the Catholic Church, married a Catholic girl in a Catholic Church (before I was LDS) been to Mass many times, but in a lot of their teachings they are wrong. Just because Iranius or Clemont or Polycarp or others wrote something in the 1st-3rd century does not make it correct, especially since there was a lot of writings at odds with each other. I can tell you are passionate about your Catholic upbringing however, at some point even you have to admit a lot of what they teach is wrong or you would not have left them.

The Bible doesn't mention anyone 'answering natures call' either, shall we assume no one ever did? You say you have rejected Catholic teachings, yet you fall back on them in every discussion, so which is it; you believe Catholic Dogma or you don't?

Its an example the higher law that we no longer are required to observe.

While this is not official, this sounds right to me. I got this from an African American Mormon about 10-12 years back who wrote it in response to the same kind of question that was posed in the O.P. and I got his permission to share it as I could:

Cultural Mormon - someone normally raised in the Church, usually living in the Mountain West, that attends Church just for the family/social relationships but does not believe.

That would work, the only thing I would warn is that many people don't have a lot of $$ after retirement.

I agree, wait until you are ready. Some missionaries are a bit pushier than others, but just say "I am not ready to be baptized, or even to set a date right now, I will let you know when and if I am. Now would you please explain....... "

So you're living by the rules of the United Order today?

Actually; Some do and some don't. Take a survey on a Protestant website and you'll get about 50/50 -- I did this a number of years back.

Once again, if you read what I wrote: The one passage Tacitus wrote was in 116 AD, not 60 - 90 AD that's not one generation removed, its 2 generations removed bordering on 3. And actually all the time lines I've seen is more like 35-80 AD for the Gospels. Paul's letters are believed to be from 38-58 AD I believe due to faith and the testimony I received. History plays no part whatsoever.

Did you read what I wrote? Josephus was at MOST 4 years old when Christ was crucified. Tacitus wasn't even born until 56 AD that's 20+ years after Christ was crucified. 5 works of his survive, the first written in 98 AD which is over 60 years after Christ was crucified. A single passage written over 80 years after the Crucifixion and you consider that as historical proof? and contemporary to Christ?

So living forever does not make me eternal? You mean like these? (not all inclusive, just a few names from a quick google search) Death date Name Cause of death 01/07/1832 Joseph B. Brackenbury (missionary) Poisoning 10/25/1838 Gideon Carter Killed in battle 10/25/1838 Patrick O'Banion Killed in battle by John Lockhart 10/25/1838 David W. Patten (apostle) Killed in battle 10/30/1838 Hiram Abbott Massacre 10/30/1838 Elias Benner Massacre 10/30/1838 John Byers Massacre 10/30/1838 Alexander Campbell Massacre 10/30/1838 Simon Cox Massacre 10/30/1838 Josiah Fuller Massacre 10/30/1838 Austin Hammer Massacre 10/30/1838 John Lee Massacre 10/30/1838 Benjamin Lewis Massacre 10/30/1838 Thomas McBride Massacre; shot by Jacob Rogers; body hacked apart with a corn knife November 1838 Charles Merrick Massacre; died about 4 weeks afterward from wounds 10/30/1838 Levi Newton Merrick Massacre 10/30/1838 William Napier Massacre 10/30/1838 George S. Richards Massacre 10/30/1838 Sardius Smith Massacre; top of skull blown off from musket shot by William Reynolds 10/30/1838 Warren Smith Massacre 10/30/1838 John York Massacre 05/27/1840 Edward Partridge (first bishop) Persecution 06/27/1844 Joseph Smith, Jr. Mob assassination 06/27/1844 Hyrum Smith Mob assassination 07/30/1844 Samuel Harrison Smith (one of Eight Witnesses)internal injuries sustained while fleeing a mob on horseback on the day his brothers were murdered 05/13/1857 Parley P. Pratt (apostle) Shot and stabbed by Hector McLean 07/21/1879 Joseph Standing (missionary) Mob murder 08/08/1884 William S. Berry (missionary) Mob assassination 08/08/1884 John H. Gibbs (missionary) Mob assassination 08/08/1884 W. Martin Conder Mob assassination 08/08/1884 John Riley Hutson Mob assassination * The Battle and massacre they list for late Oct 1838 was due to people attacking them because of their religion and also the Haun's Mill Massacre (also due to their religion). Perhaps you could provide us some evidence from Jesus' peers outside of the Bible. I've looked for it for decades and never found any proof yet that he existed outside of religious texts. Records of People who actually lived when Jesus did and saw him. Historians all agree that even Josephus was at the most 4 years old when Jesus was crucified. Having known 4 year old's I don't automatically believe what they say. How about census or tax records? The Romans and the Jews were both a record keeping people, yet there is no record of Jesus.Don't get me wrong, I believe, but certainly not due to any historical records since there are none. He quotes very small portions of it ( a couple of verses) a couple of times. To me that does not sound like a resounding endorsement of everything in it.It is nice to know where you're coming from though. Thank you for your reply.

What would he record? He was avoiding other people and there were no cities in what is now the USA, He couldn't say for example 'I just passed Memphis'.

That is what led me to investigate the Church, its not what made me join however. I didn't join until I had a testimony that what was being taught was true AND that God wanted me to act upon it.

A couple different ways; One is the Moroni who spent decades moving reached New York. Second is that God put them there from where ever Moroni left them so Joseph Smith could get to them. Third would be that while many of us do believe the BoM happened in MesoAmerica, we are wrong and it actually occurred much further north (somewhere closer to New York) . I personally vote for number two, but that's pure speculation on my part and really wouldn't matter to me if I was wrong.

I have two serious questions for you: If I was born 58 years ago and if I live forever, having no end, am I eternal? Why do you believe the Bible to be true?