Traveler

Thanks for your interest. For best results and understanding I suggest you get your answers directly from the source – Milton Friedman. Google will provide you with better information than I can. When and if implemented properly there would be an immediate (at a minimum) surplus of 28% taxes. The main idea of a negative income tax is that it is not an all or nothing. Rather there is always an incentive to work and earn money in order to have an increase in disposible income. The negative income tax would be on an sliding scale. Also as I understand Milton Friedman there would still be opportunity for private charity in extreme cases. This would help prevent an intitlement attitude. If I could add anything it would be that all income is taxed – even the income of the poor. The reason I believe this is necessary is because then all citizens would have skin in the tax game (similar to tithing) and DC would be held more to account whenever they asked for more taxes. I also believe that the extreme benefits that elected officials grant themselves would become much more unpopular. The Traveler

The world will be balanced (for sure) when the announcement is made for 24 temples in Independence Missouri. 🙂 The Traveler

I believe that in this day and age the most common abuse is based in heterophobic hatred. Especially towards white heterosexual males. Shucks – the abuse is so bad that heterophobic does not even make it through spell check in Microsoft Word. The Traveler

I will predict at least two in places I did not know there was even a ward there and one in a place I did not know even existed. In my youth I could name all the temples – but back then there were only 12 and the year I graduated from high school they dedicated the 13th. I set a goal to visit al the temples. Currently I can’t even tell you all the temples in Utah. I am starting to take all the temples for granted. The wife and went to our assigned temple forgetting that it was closed for a week of deep cleaning. So we just went to another temple. We ended up finding out there 4 temples were closed for something before we found one (all within less than an hour drive of our home) was open. Now days that problem is solved because we make appointments. At the most recent Roots Tec I learned that on the Family Tree app I can find the name(s) of the closest relation to take to the temple. I am guessing that we will be told that the Kirtland temple will soon be restored and rededicated. I would like to be there for that. The Traveler

Greetings @Sail: As I ponder various epochs in scripture, I am not sure that the divine message or purpose is obvious. From the Biblical accounts there seems to be some contradictions. The reverences to G-d and divine society is always that G-d is the Supreme Suzerain (King) and that heaven is a divine kingdom. However, when it comes to G-d’s covenant peoples here in mortality on this earth – Making our human leaders kings and making ourselves subjects of our governments and governors have never worked out well. Not for ourselves nor our leaders. To me the story of David very much portrays this great contradiction. Obviously, something very critical is missing. Perhaps some of what is missing is referenced in Doctrine and Convenance section 121 verse 39: So prominent is the inclination to misuse authority that it seems to me that the only one worthy of authority is the person that does not want anything to do with it. Thus they will only use authority is when it is forced upon them and that only acceptance is as a temporary act of service. So, in my pondering I wonder if we really understand G-d, his leadership and the divine society of heaven. Perhaps our view of heaven is not Celestial at all but rather more along with the glory and governance of the telestial or terrestrial, both because of what is expected of leaders and what is intended as our contribution. The Traveler

May you enter a room and forget what it was you came to the room to get. May you repeat the above process several times in succession. The Traveler

In another thread I pointed out that current government handouts are framed on the data of the 1960 national census. That data indicated that a transfer of 2% of GNP to the poor would end poverty. We are not approaching 70% of government spending is assistance for the poor – and today poverty is as rampant today (or worse) than 1960. I suggested that we follow the outline provided by Milton Freidman and his negative income tax. With a slight adjustment for retirement and disabled – the negative income tax could replace Social Security and SSI. I also believe that we should not worry about term limits but rather put all government employees and elected officials on a negative income tax program. Some worry that certain elected officials need security protection – this could be provided through government housing on military bases. This would immediately save our country 60% from what is currently being spent with the saving of similar in the tax burden on the citizens that pay taxes. A great economic boom for the middle class that would have more benefits than a war economy. It would also make our military much stronger and bring peace to a very troubled world. This may be what Jesus has in mind for the Millennium? The Traveler

Number 11 is a big one in today’s society. We love to buy our clothing at Cosco that relies on cheep imports from China and India that employ the essence of child slave labor. The Traveler

Greetings @JohnsonJones: Back in the 80’s an international acclaimed economists (Milton Friedman) did an audit of the Social Security for then President Ragan. His audit was somewhat unpopular – especially for the Democrats but it did upset Republicans as well. Two of the biggest problems with the Social Security Department was the expanded use of the funds (for example the funding of Black Military Ops) and the exorbitant overhead costs (10 time the allowable overhead costs – by law – for privately funded retirement funds). According to Friedman, there has never been a shortage of funds, rather poor management (including unfunded changes). As near as I can tell - none of Milton's recomendations have been adopted. The Traveler

Greetings @Still_Small_Voice: I would add to your thoughtful post a few thoughts of my own. I have speculated and rationalized that there will be marriages (perhaps of differing varieties) in other glories – perhaps even in what is referred to in our LDS doctrine as outer darkness. However, only in the Celestial Glory will the covenant of marriage be eternal and possess the covenant (New and everlasting Covenant) and power of creating new life – especially children in the image and likeness of g-ds. My reference in scripture for this is Doctrine and Covenants 132. It does appear to me that all things in this physical universe is subject to the phisics and laws of dimensions of space time in which it exists. As such all things do not and cannot endure everlasting eternity and of necessity can only be sustained through the merciful power and compassion of Celestial beings. Whatever personal bonds are made outside of the Celestial law are not trustworthy or capable to endure eternally. Because our universe is organized and ordered though the power and order of the Priesthood – it is my impression that all thrones, principalities, powers, things of names or whatsoever my be, must be sustained through powers and orders of celestial beings. Those of other glories are subjects to celestial beings and thus are ministering angles to them – they have no power or powers only that which is allowed by celestial beings and their care. This would mean that the only free individuals of liberty are Celestial. All others are damned – which means limited (bounded) in what they can do and achieve and as such are dependent on Celestial beings for their every breath. This is why they are subject to them and cannot achieve any rank higher than ministering angles. As a side note – I have encountered many religious individuals that have no desire whatsoever to be themselves free individuals of liberty – in other words desire no more than to be eternally damned to some state lesser than G-d’s and therefore they cannot one with G-d as Jesus prayed in Gethsemane. (Which, by-the-way many of non LDS stripe claim makes the Latter-day Saints technically not disciples of Christ.) The Traveler

For those that are wondering, there is not a penny left in the Social Security trust fund. What is left in that trust fund is an IOU from the federal government. Sadly, that IOU is not referenced nor considered when the national debt is calculated. It is perhaps the happiest place for the federal government to borrow money because there is no interest paid on the money that is borrowed from Social Security. I am sure if you ask anyone in the Social Security Administration – they will tell you that Social Security is as secure as our borders. The Traveler

My family is the holder of the best known copy of the Rules of the United Order. For your fun and enjoyment I have printed out a copy (on my compurter not a photo copy) of the rules of the United Order. The Traveler

I believe in agency. I do not believe in almost anything or just short of anything else. Let me put this another way. We are what we have spent billions of years becoming. This mortal experience is just a part of what is called the plan of salvation. There was a pre-existence and there will be a spirit experience after we die and before we are resurrected that will complete our probation. The first step to freedom begins with discipline. The first step into bondage begins with self-indulgence. We become free or bound through the steps we take. If one is in St George Utah, they can follow I-15 in one of two directions. One direction will take them towards Las Vagas the other direction will take them to Salt Lake City. With each step one takes, the gap between the two destinations does not change but the gap between where you are and the destination you are headed is what changes. We are told in scriptures that we can follow one of three paths. One leads to the telestial glory, one leads to the terrestrial glory and one leads to the celestial glory. The choice is yours – you determine by your agency the path you take. There is a passage in the Book of Mormon that implies that according to your choice the atonement of Christ will complete what you are unable to accomplish on your own. The Traveler

Just for fun – a long time ago, when the wife and I were still raising our children, I kept a notebook of stupid things I said. All with the idea of perhaps someday publishing a book of humor. Some examples: “Your mother is coming over today? Does she need to borrow your broom?” “Your sister is on another diet? Did she break her Richter scale?” The husband comes home from work and the wife is in the kitchen fixing hamburgers for dinner. Husband: “Why are the hamburgers so big?” Wife: “Because I got big buns.” Warning!!!! Whatever cute and fun thing you are thinking of saying could be damaging to your health. The Traveler

I believe the point is - if someone is going to take up a potentially dangerous physical activity – they should not wait until their physical capabilities are in serious decline. I have been involved in human powered cycling and skiing for over 60 years. I realize that there are some not so rigorous cycling trails as well as blue and green ski trails. However, if one’s goals involve 2,000 feet climbs cycling and double black diamond runs through the trees as a means to recover from knee and hip replacements – they may think about a second opinion. On another note – if you are going to ski through trees make sure you are capable of keeping both skis on the same side of all the trees. Otherwise, you could not just have a bad day for yourself, but you can make it a bummer for everybody that is with you and cares about you. 😬 Just ask Sunny Bono and friends. The Traveler

There was a complaint a while back that posting on the forum (primarily in the General discussion thread) is dying. I had what I believe to be a fun idea in posting some worthless trivia – thus this thread. So here is some trivia about motorcycles. I have a brother that loves to ride his Harley but recently sold it and does not plan to purchase another – he is done riding. I asked him why. The reason for him is that riding requires too much concentration. For example, driving a car down a road at 60 mph and encountering a tennis shoe is not much more than an annoying thud. Not really a problem. On a motorcycle, hitting a tennis shoe can ruin your whole day – especially on a turn. Riding with a group is kind of a thing but on a two-lane winding country road – trying to get a group of motorcycles past a semi is no longer fun for him. Because riding a motorcycle requires much more concentration – rides over an hour has become too tiring for my brother, taking the fun out of trips. This brings me to another trivia point I read a couple of decades ago. It is that if someone past the age of 60 decides to purchase their first motorcycle to fulfill some dream – they have a 70% chance of dying on that motorcycle. I have concluded this is part of the concentration thing and that as we get older remaining focused does not work so well. I guess that if someone does not want to waist away in a hospital bed as an end of life scenario – taking up motorcycling in your retirement, may not be a bad idea. I learned about the high-rise handlebars – the term for those handlebars are “ape hangers”. We can speculate how cycle riders came up with that. In the state of Utah (and several other states) it is illegal to have ape hangers that require one’s hands to be higher than their arm pits. This is not because someone wants to give certain kinds of riders a bad time. It is because holding one’s hands (or hand) above their heart for prolonged periods of time will cause their hand to go to sleep. This little fact of life causes me to wonder why such a law would be required in the first place???? This should be a matter of evolution that would quickly remove certain mentalities from the gene pool. Anyway – If someone wants to chime in – please do. If you have any point of trivia to add to this thread – for fun or pet peeve – have at it. For fun if nothing else. The Traveler

There are two great lessons that I attempted to highlight in my post. The first lesson is quite obvious. That is that making bad choices without thinking through the possible outcomes seems to inevitably result in regret. The second lesson is much more difficult – both in realizing the lesson and figuring out how to reverse or correct it. It is more difficult because it does not involve so much the initial act of the individual that makes the bad choice – it involves those closest to them that realizes that the choice is flawed. Especially when we love and care about others it is difficult to sit back and do nothing when the bad choices are made – we rationalize what ever action we take to mitigate and solve the problem for those making the bad choices will somehow respond to our criticism favorably. Then in addition it also makes it much more difficult for the person that made the bad choices to ever attempt any rectification because not only do they have to deal with the initial bad choices but also the bitterness involved in the exchanges of criticisms. It is very hard to admit that the critic that cause so much pain is justified – especially if they went overboard in anger. How can we be “right” if we become an obstacle and not a helper in the repentance of those needing repentance the most. Like the parable of the Prodigal Son. The Prodigal must become overly humble before they will come to their senses and return. That return would have been shattered if the prevailing attitude was the attitude of the brother that remained faithful. This is the reason that the fated calf was killed of necessity for the returning prodigal and why the faithful son needed no such affirmation. The Traveler

A note – I am a retired engineer and scientist in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence. Most everything I have studied concerning the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints resonates with me as well. There are some things that initially seemed out of place or not quite right but over time have proven to be exactly spot on and prophetic. The strongest piece of evidence for me has been the Book of Mormon. If I were to highlight any possible contrary element it would be a few members that have overrated themselves. But even considering such members and compared to any other organization – there is no other institution on earth I personally trust more. Even the most enlightened and intelligent institution in the universe (heaven) produced an abundance of (though very intelligent individuals) that way overrated themselves as well. Pride is such an enemy and hindrance to peace and unity of society. The Traveler

I have a daughter that left the Church because she has concluded that women are 2nd class citizens within the society of Latter-day Saints. For a number of years this controversy caused divisions (sometimes angry exchanges) within our family and particularly between myself and my daughter. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that angry exchanges are harmful to both myself and my daughter so for a while I avoided such topics. Currently, I am able to discuss things without becoming angry or responding to her anger and things have gotten much better --- but there is another side to all this. Her 4 children (my grandchildren) have continually drifted and have become quite confused over morals. For a while the grandkids would attend church with us when we visited, or they visited us. It has been a long time since they have chosen not to go with us to church. It was decided by my daughter and her husband that kids should figure out their own moral directions and religious connections. This has been most difficult for the kids and as they are reaching adulthood in this confusing world they have not done well. Two of the children have become lost and developed addictions. The addictions have resulted in severe mental illness issues to the point that it is doubtful that they will ever be able to ever live on their own without some assistance. Sadly, daughter is coming to her senses and realizing that leaving the church and the moral mooring living standards bring – is the primary factor in her children succumbing to damaging temptations – just not enough yet to return to protections of living by covenant. It is important that each person develop their own faith in G-d but if a person determines to become an agent unto themselves – it is not just their lives that are affected. It is not uncommon for innocent children (or others) to suffer consequences sometimes for many generations. With such damage I marvel that the atonement of Christ is able to unravel whatever damage we can do to ourselves and others. The Traveler

Thank you for your post. Some thoughts about the person Joshua. This is the same name by which Jesus was known. Jesus being the Greek translation of Joshua. Shortly after Joshua succeeded following Moses, he took the “children of Israel” down to the river Jordan and washed them before crossing the Jordan river over into Palestine. The nature of the Jordan river as it approaches the Dead Sea is what we call a meandering river – which means that as the river erodes the landscape its course can change slightly. It is interesting to note that when Jesus came to the river Jordan to be baptized (washed?) of John it was at the same place that Joshua washed Israel and crossed that river on dry ground. I appreciate your notion that the ancient epochs of faith are prophetic in nature to have relevance for what is to come (even in our day and time). The Hebrew word “Kippur” had no English equivalent so when Tyndale attempted to translate the first English Bible, he coined the word “Atonement”. Because he portended to make up a sacred word is one of the primary reasons he was burned at the stake for heresy. The word “Kippur” has two distinct parts to its meaning and purpose. The first is a redemption that is paid by G-d for sins. It is my understanding that this redemption does not supersede the responsibility of the individual for their crimes of sin except to pay for that which the individual is unable. The second part is purification to change or remove that which is dross so that whch remains is pure and without flaw. This insinuates to me that the Atonement of Christ is not completed in us until we (complete repentance and) are pure (perfect). In scripture this is often spoken of as complete or perfect – which can only be concluded through the completion of the first 4 principles of the Gospel of Christ. I believe there is symbolism in Joshua leading Israel into the “Promise Land” that has great meaning for the Latter-day Saints preparing (themselves and Zion) for the Messiah and His Millennial Reign. The Traveler

It is still being made – just not here on earth. The Traveler

Over a decade ago I had to register for Social Security. This was before such efforts could be completed online. I live in Utah that is somewhat white. Never-the-less, I was surprised that I seemed to be the only “white” person registering for Social Security. In addition, I seemed to be the only individual of retirement age as well as the only individual that spoke English. I did not think much about it at the time but since I have learned that if a person is disabled, they can receive Social Security funds even if they are not a senior citizen. In fact, even if they are not citizens. There are a few stipulations. If they were lawfully admitted, granted conditional entry, paroled into the US, refugee, granted asylum, a Cuban or Haitian entrant or deportation is being withheld. Are the democrats (liberals – progressives) deliberately attempting to bankrupt Social Security? Are the republicans doing anything to preserve Social Security? With the southern border as open as it is, and refugee or asylum granted without any validation – I do not believe Social Security is sustainable. The Traveler

I relate to Enos and his struggle. Growing up in a righteous home well rooted in the gospel of Christ – I believed my parents, attended church, sought understanding and received conformations. As I grew towards adulthood and became aware of this universe of uncertainty and my own inability to reconcile seeming contradictions, I began to wonder what it was I seemed to be missing. Not so much doubts that what I believed was wrong – just that like the rich young man that came to Jesus – I wondered what it was that I was missing. I had spent time in the army during the Vietnam conflict and lost friends in that war. I had also served a mission but felt that I had been sent home at the end of my allotted time leaving critical things undone. There was a young lady that had waited faithfully for me to complete my mission, writing to me almost every week. I went out with her once on a date and could not connect taking her home early. I had a major conflict with a professor (that within a year was fired) and decided to drop out of college. I felt that the girls I met and attempted to date were seriously spiritually flawed. I had a companion from my mission that was a native American. I discussed with him my spiritual disconnect. He knew me from our experiences together and knew I was raised hunting for part of the food I ate and convinced me to take time off and go on a spiritual quest similar to Enos, Moses and Christ. I took a blanket, rope, knife, a coat, Book of Mormon and the clothes on my back and walked away from civilization into the desert of central Utah – living on the land as a 40 day fast. Just over 20 days into my experience I came across a fellow on a prison release program that had become lost and was in serious trouble. He had not eaten for a few days and has blisters, bleeding and was unable to walk without assistance and was more than twice my size. It took over two days to get him out and to safety and there was a time I did not think we would make it but were saved by a miracle. I thought that my spiritual efforts had been ruined. My personal Enos wilderness experience failed – or so I thought. After a few more weeks I left my wilderness without the spiritual manifestation I expected. I had a spiritual experience in my youth, somewhat similar to young Joseph Smith and believed that I could reconnect. But it did not happen as I expected. I came to realize that spiritual experience come through personalizing one’s covenants. The meaning and purpose of spiritual experiences is to galvanize one’s covenants. As we keep our covenants through faith and dedication the spirit strengthens that faith and opens greater spiritual possibilities. My time in the wilderness has become one of my greatest strengths leading me through life – reminding me of many things I was given during my quest and reminding me to remain faithful to covenants. It is my understanding that Enos’s life was not fixed through his wilderness experience but rather he came to a understanding of how his purpose in life is fixed through divine covenant that he had already made but not completed. The Traveler

We need to realize that the context of this scripture is deeply rooted in the Hebrew culture and language even though the text is written in Reformed Egyptian. From the context of near Eastern culture, we learn that the preferred styles of government were patterned after their ancient understanding that the government of Heaven was properly called a “Kingdom”. That the kingdom of Heaven was ruled by a supreme Suzerain. From near Eastern kingdoms often had levels of citizenship. Only the “First Born” (Meaning the most noble or highest rank of citizens fell under the direct relationship with the Suzerain. As a side note here, these high citizens had a unique name by which they addressed the Suzerain that no one else was allowed to use. There are many references in scripture about the first-born citizens. One reference is referenced with the final miracle of Moses when obtaining the deliverance of the Israelites. Other classes of Citizens were under the jurisdiction of what was called the Servant Vassel. According to the law of the kingdom the Servant Vassel was said to have inherited all that the Suzerain had in dealing with their Jurisdiction within the Kingdom. As such they claimed to be one Suzerain or one with the Suzerain. Often, they would speak to their jurisdiction in the first person as the Suzerain. Under this law of a Kingdom, it was said that there was one Suzerain. The Hebrew word to designate “one” is ehad. This is the same Hebrew word that designates that a man and a woman become one flesh when married according to G-d’s law. The Hebrew word that designates a unique single individual is yahed. Whenever Hebrew scripture referenced the “oneness” of G-d the word ehad is always used. There is no reference – ever – that Hebrew scripture uses the term yahed in referencing one G-d. When the fall of man (Adam and Eve) took place all of the covenant spirit children of the Father (Suzerain of Heaven) became fallen or exiled citizens of Heaven and therefore were under the jurisdiction of a Servant Vassel that was the Messiah or Christ that was anciently known as Jehovah and the man Jesus of Nazareth. When the Apostles chosen by Jesus to oversee the kingdom of G-d (church) on earth there were lost to the Church there was a shift in the stylized government of the church. This shift patterned the church structure after the government of Rome. To justify this gross alteration a counsel met and created the doctrine of the “Trinity” that was forced on “Christians” under penalty of death and it has remained ever since. Perhaps the best witness in scripture of the proper concept of oneness is in the Gospel of John chapter 17 when Jesus prays in Gethsemane as part of his Atonement that those that believe on him (as the Servant Vassel to the Suzerain) would become one with the Father in the same manner that He is one with the Father. Obviously meaning that those that believe in Christ will no longer be exiled but full citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven as Servant Vassals of the Father. I would note that in John chapter 10 that when Jesus said he was one with the Father – the Jews clearly understood that Jesus was referring to himself as G-d and that is why they intended to put Jesus to death. Many Christians claim that they are one with G-d in one breath but then in the next breath claim there is only one (yahed) G-d and that the Trinity doctrine is valid. Obviously, they do not know what they are saying. The Traveler

Since we are keen on speculation for this thread, I will offer some speculation based on research that I followed and speculated myself. Among the Dead Sea Scrolls was a copper scroll that was also called the temple scroll. We know that in the ancient world that records were kept on metal for special reasons. There were also various levels upon which records were kept. A special breed of sheep and goats were maintained for what was called the scriptorium scrolls. The Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea Scriptures is one example of the higher quality scriptorium scrolls. One of the non-LDS scholars associated with the Dead Sea Scriptures speculated that the most important copies of the scriptures were kept at the temple. Prior to 600 BC. the stone plates that contained the Ten Commandments was kept at the temple in the Holy of Holies and inside the Ark of the Covenant. It is my personal speculation that the Brass Plates were kept in the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies of the Temple according to the law and covenant. That the removal of the Brass Plates by Laban was a gross disobedience of that covenant. That one of the primary purposes of the temple of ancient times was to maintain and keep sacred artifacts. It is my speculation that the temple is intended to house the most sacred artifacts obtained through covenant with G-d. Specifically in the Holy of Holies. There these most sacred covenants artifacts are protected by divine covenant. That if circumstance was required that G-d would inform his covenantal garden to remove such artifacts by divine calling – as according to Nephi concerning the Brass Plates. So, my speculation is that certain artifacts (including the Golden Plates) are in possession of our Apostles. That there are safe places to keep such artifacts in the Holy of Holies or if necessary, a special prepared vaults carved into granite stone mountain sides (known or secret). I find it most interesting to me that the L-rd has found the means in our own day and time to have many of the most sacred artifacts (including buildings – temple and otherwise) back into the control and protection of his covenant Saints. Not only are these artifacts being returned they are being returned without the Saints demanding it so or by their forced efforts. I do believe this to be a divine witness that the only true and living G-d is providing witness to the world concerning his only true and living covenant (authority church). And also a witness to the Saints (with eyes to see and ears to hear) of the preparations for the returning of the Messiah. The Traveler