the Atonement

[Gillebre]

we know from the words of the Latter-day Prophets especially that Christ's atonement was infinite. In every sense of the word.

And as I was reading a book earlier today...the author answered the question (assuming that there are other earths with God's children on them who need the infinite Atonement) of why the Savior came to this earth to atone and sacrifice himself for the sins and pains of all?

The answer given was that this earth's inhabitants was the only ones wicked enough to put the Son of God to death. The author cited scriptures for that statement, but I don't have them on-hand.

Also, I remember reading in the Book of Moses that the Lord told Enoch that of all of Heavenly Father's creations, this most wicked were upon this earth...that never before ANYWHERE else had evil reigned so fully and had so much power.

scarey...eh?

(this thread i had the idea for came after I read the thread about the beheaded canadian bus rider)

[bmy-]

But of course -- being on the 'most wicked planet' would give us the oppurtunity to shine the brightest, wouldn't it?

Pretty awesome.

[Gillebre]

it would. it also means that no other planet can claim they provided for the atonement to occur on their soil.

that actually might be a point of interest in the celestial kingdom, when we meet God's other children who aren't of our Earth. They'll ask where we came from, and they'll be grateful we provided the home of the Savior, and the perfect setting for the infinite atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

[Moksha]

Our own redemption through the Atonement increases our ability to extend forgiveness and love.

[Dove]

we know from the words of the Latter-day Prophets especially that Christ's atonement was infinite. In every sense of the word.

And as I was reading a book earlier today...the author answered the question (assuming that there are other earths with God's children on them who need the infinite Atonement) of why the Savior came to this earth to atone and sacrifice himself for the sins and pains of all?

The answer given was that this earth's inhabitants was the only ones wicked enough to put the Son of God to death. The author cited scriptures for that statement, but I don't have them on-hand.

Also, I remember reading in the Book of Moses that the Lord told Enoch that of all of Heavenly Father's creations, this most wicked were upon this earth...that never before ANYWHERE else had evil reigned so fully and had so much power.

scarey...eh?

(this thread i had the idea for came after I read the thread about the beheaded canadian bus rider)

What a heady topic to me, it is pretty mind-boggling to think that, of the innumerable worlds God has created (pearl of Great Price), this world was the home of the Saviour. It's pretty humbling and a little hard to believe for me.

I do know that the reason why the Saviour was crucified in Jerusalem was that they were the most wicked city on earth through the duration of time. But I have'nt. read where this world is considered the most wicked world of all God's worlds~do you have that reference?

Good topic!

[Gillebre]

Moses 7:36 Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren.

[bytor2112]

What a heady topic to me, it is pretty mind-boggling to think that, of the innumerable worlds God has created (pearl of Great Price), this world was the home of the Saviour. It's pretty humbling and a little hard to believe for me.

I do know that the reason why the Saviour was crucified in Jerusalem was that they were the most wicked city on earth through the duration of time. But I have'nt. read where this world is considered the most wicked world of all God's worlds~do you have that reference?

Good topic!

Hi Dove,

Interesting that you say that Jerusalem was the most wicked city... can you point me to some more info on that?

Thanks.......:)

[choice]

With regard to Jerusalem and surrounding region;

It may also be pertinent to bear in mind the position of the Dead Sea. In close proximity to Bethlehem and Jerusalem, fed by the River Jordan, it was historically 1200 ft below sea level, and remains the lowest point on earth.

I remember reading in the New Testament manual ‘Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles’ about the significant nature of His humble beginnings.

The birth and ministry of Jesus the Christ, Yashua, in these particular parts of the world sustains his divine purpose in more ways than one.

Jesus, once of humble birth...

“descending below all things that he might rise above all things.”

[inquirer_Jn1717]

Didn't Brigham Young say in a sermon once that there is a temper and a savior for every world that ever was or will be?

If so, how would the atonement here on earth be of any value on another world that already has another savior?

(side note: I don't actually believe that there are any other worlds with people on them, though it is a possibility. Neither do not believe that Christ's atonement was finite in the Calvinistic sense, he died for the sins of the whole world. So if we are not alone then he would have died for their sins too [and the NT would read a little differently])

[Still_Small_Voice]

Hi Dove,

Interesting that you say that Jerusalem was the most wicked city... can you point me to some more info on that?

Thanks.......:)

"Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God." II Nephi 10:3

[tubaloth]

Didn't Brigham Young say in a sermon once that there is a temper and a savior for every world that ever was or will be?

Yes he suggested something like that. Reading the talk it sounds more like Brigham Young was talking about tempters of Satan, and how there is probably one for each of us (or something like that).

Further reading of the scriptures show there is only one “Christ” for all of Heavenly Father’s creation.

If so, how would the atonement here on earth be of any value on another world that already has another savior?

It wouldn’t, but in modern revelation it is explained that Christ is the only creator of all of Heavenly Fathers worlds. We then learn that Christ is the only one to atone for all of Heavenly Fathers children.

I don't actually believe that there are any other worlds with people on them, though it is a possibility.

I’m not sure if you are LDS or not, but the LDS belef is that there are others worlds.

he died for the sins of the whole world. So if we are not alone then he would have died for their sins too [and the NT would read a little differently])

How would it read differently? He did die for those sins too, how many we know not!

[Abraham]

II Ne 10:3-4

Abraham

[Traveler]

Moses 7:36 Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren.

Are you sure he was not talking about Satan?

The Traveler

[Justice]

This is an interesting topic, but in the grand scheme it doesn't really matter. Just as Christ's Atonement is for me, who lived after Him, and on a different land than Him, it can be for any who live in a different time and on a different land. The important thing is to seek to build our testimony of it's reality, and live like we want part in His grace.

[Traveler]

This is an interesting topic, but in the grand scheme it doesn't really matter. Just as Christ's Atonement is for me, who lived after Him, and on a different land than Him, it can be for any who live in a different time and on a different land. The important thing is to seek to build our testimony of it's reality, and live like we want part in His grace.

I like this idea - I am sure that anyone that really believes that the Atonement of Christ is infinite is not affected by either by their own sins (which are repented of) but they are not affected by the sins of any and all others (including and especially of those that are not repented of).

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

we know from the words of the Latter-day Prophets especially that Christ's atonement was infinite. In every sense of the word.

And as I was reading a book earlier today...the author answered the question (assuming that there are other earths with God's children on them who need the infinite Atonement) of why the Savior came to this earth to atone and sacrifice himself for the sins and pains of all?

The answer given was that this earth's inhabitants was the only ones wicked enough to put the Son of God to death. The author cited scriptures for that statement, but I don't have them on-hand.

Also, I remember reading in the Book of Moses that the Lord told Enoch that of all of Heavenly Father's creations, this most wicked were upon this earth...that never before ANYWHERE else had evil reigned so fully and had so much power.

scarey...eh?

(this thread i had the idea for came after I read the thread about the beheaded canadian bus rider)

A food for thought...remember the parable of the 12-hours and the servants that go forth; add to your answer on why this earth was the last one to stand, so the Savior may come forth to atone the sins of FATHER's children.

"We can know all the references pertaining to the Atonement. We can talk about the Atonement in our meetings but do we really feel it? Do you feel it? Do we really feel the gravity of what was done and recognize the implications that it has given us - being Father's children?"

[Mirium]

I read and study everyday and this year have learnt so much about the Atonement not only from study but also by applying it in my life. I'm grateful to have a testimony of the Atonement and feel there is still so much more for me to learn. I have often wondered about the other worlds and how there could be so many worlds and only one Saviour. Thankyou for all your comments and for helping me understand this better.

[Vanhin]

For any who still espouse the idea that there is a savior for each world, consider this line of reasoning:

All the inhabitants of worlds without number are spirit sons and daughters of God. (Moses 1:33, D&C 76:24)

In order for someone to be able to perform the atonement, they must be perfect and sinless, and have the power to give up their life and take it up again (John 10:17). Jesus Christ was such a person. He was sired by God the Father and born of a mortal mother in the flesh. He himself was the Lord of the Universe before his birth into mortality and was the God of heaven and earth. (Mosiah 3:8)

So, if there are others they must also be begotten sons of God in the flesh, which would mean Jesus is not the Only One. However, the scriptures make it perfectly clear that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. And further, we know from the scriptures that there is no other name given whereby man can be saved:

"And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Ne. 31:21)

To me, this scripture says it all:

" And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God." (D&C 76:22-24)

In context those passages are all about the merits of Jesus Christ; even the part about the inhabitants being "sons and daughters unto God". It is not a mere statement about the reality that we are spirit offspring of God the Father, it is also a statement about the fact that because of Christ we can become "born again" and truly the sons and daughters of God, full heirs to his glory...

"And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters." (Mosiah 5:7)

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." (Romans 8:16-17)

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Guest bren1975]

we know from the words of the Latter-day Prophets especially that Christ's atonement was infinite. In every sense of the word.

And as I was reading a book earlier today...the author answered the question (assuming that there are other earths with God's children on them who need the infinite Atonement) of why the Savior came to this earth to atone and sacrifice himself for the sins and pains of all?

The answer given was that this earth's inhabitants was the only ones wicked enough to put the Son of God to death. The author cited scriptures for that statement, but I don't have them on-hand.

Also, I remember reading in the Book of Moses that the Lord told Enoch that of all of Heavenly Father's creations, this most wicked were upon this earth...that never before ANYWHERE else had evil reigned so fully and had so much power.

scarey...eh?

We also have some of the greatest of God's spirit children born on this earth. Christ's atonement was universal, not for this planet only. It IS mind-boggling to think about it.