Who ARE Lamanites?

[Mahonri1]

When I was on a Lamanite mission, all the inhabitants of the North and South American continent as descendants of the original inhabitants(not the immigrants other than those who intermarried) and all the South Sea islanders were Lamanites. Spencer Kimball and back to Joseph Smith said so. The Book of Mormon is written TO THE LAMANITES.

Now it is changed. Trying to find out Who is a Lamanite is nearly impossible in the church. No more Lamanite Generation at BYU. No more Lamanite Placement Program. No more much of anything in the main thrust of the Book of Mormon in bringing the Gospel to its people.

With all the changes lately, who are the Lamanites?

[bytor2112]

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile

Seem to have forgotten the Jews and Gentiles........

[Abraham]

I just pulled up the title page of the BoM and it still says it is written to the Lamanites. We had a GA come to our SC and tell us if we have a problem with the 'Lamanites' then we better get over it. I served in four different countries in Central America and so I love those hard working, intelligent, and devoted people. Being illegal is another issue.

I will tel you who the Lamintes are not. They are not the traditional American Indians such as the Navajo, Apache, Crow, Blackfeet, Shosone, etc. It is too complicated to explain but the scholars I read say the same thing. Additionally, don't forget that when Lehi got here there were already many, many, people(s) here. This (South America supposedly) was not a virgin land, if for the very least remember the Jaredites and the so-called (never named such) the Mulekites. (Of course they were extinc but the point is that other have occupied this hemisphere.)

I think trying to idetntify the lamintes is like trying to define a 'Gentile' there are different ways to look at it. For example, descendants of Laman, those who aligned themselves with Lamanites, those opposed to the Nephites. So sorry, this is not a better, clearer answer but I just wanted to at least clarify that the Amercan Native Indians in the broad sense are not under the name of lamanite.

Abraham

[bytor2112]

And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God,

[Dale]

This FAIR Wiki article clarifies the matter.

Lamanites in the Doctrine and Covenants - FAIRMormon

FAIR in its bookstore has a DVD answering DNA issues relating to the Book of Mormon. One can find clips from it of it on FAIRS You Tube channel. They may have the whole film online, but i am not sure. I bought two DVDs so i have not watched the clips on the subject.

[Moksha]

You must remember that this is clearly different from The Laminates, who are a cohesive composite group descended from the Cedars of Lebanon.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

I read a talk by a GA once that said that though the native of habitants of the Americas may only have a trickle of the blood of Lehi in them, the covenant the Lord made with the people of Laman is still applicable.

[rameumptom]

I believe that all Native Americans are Lamanites. DNA, as we are learning, means little as to who is a descendant of Laman, Nephi or Lehi. In the Book of Mormon, the people didn't worry about DNA, but rather who was a follower of Nephi or of Laman. There were cultural ties that united people into families, as Mulekites, Lamanites, Zoramites, and others became Nephites. And many Nephites, Mulekites, Jaredites and others became Lamanites.

Today, all Native Americans are culturally, if not genetically, Lamanites. I will continue to embrace them as the descendants of Lehi, even as I consider myself a descendant of Joseph and Ephraim, thanks to my patriarchal blessing. In consideration of spiritual adoption, the physical DNA means little or nothing. It is all a matter of adoption into the faith and/or culture.

[Misshalfway]

I always wanted to be a lamanite when I was a kid.

[BenRaines]

Moshka, I caught the joke, the Laminites. Used to cover cheap furniture or in some cases very expensive furniture that doesn't hold up :)

Ben Raines

[rameumptom]

Moshka, I caught the joke, the Laminites. Used to cover cheap furniture or in some cases very expensive furniture that doesn't hold up :)

Ben Raines

Is this your first official act as "head moderator"? (Sorry, should have been capitalized). If you are catching people in writing bad jokes now, what will you be doing next week???

[BenRaines]

Moving to Idaho next :)

Ben Raines

[rameumptom]

Good. That place needs to be moderated!

[Mahonri1]

"I will tel you who the Lamintes are not. They are not the traditional American Indians such as the Navajo, Apache, Crow, Blackfeet, Shosone, etc. It is too complicated to explain but the scholars I read say the same thing. Additionally, don't forget that when Lehi got here there were already many, many, people(s) here. "

Funny, isn't it. Even the Doctrine and Covenants has the Lord calling the American Indians Joseph Smith and others were sent to preach to Lamanites. Spencer W. Kimball called them Lamanites.

As for the BofM and the land being already populated. Not in my copy. A land 'preserved' for their seed is not a populated area. They were immigrants in a land reserved for them, not interlopers into an already built up area. Better read the book more carefully and read Joseph Smiths statements more carefully and forget the convoluted apologists at FARMS and FAIR who get paid to cloud issues rather than preach the Gospel.

[rameumptom]

When you spend the time studying the Book of Mormon, you see evidences of others being there. For instance, Nephi states they built a temple "like unto Solomon's". This is only possible if you have thousands of people to build a temple, which they did not by themselves.

There are people like Sherem, who come from nowhere. How would Jacob not know someone, if there were only a few hundred Nephites around?

When the Nephites joined with the Mulekites, the two groups together were still not half as large as were the Lamanites! How did the Lamanite population expand so quickly? Were their women having quintuplets every year? Or were they absorbing peoples already around?

The fact that the Nephites absorbed the Mulekites show that others were around. And the fact that the Nephites began using Jaredite names, strongly suggests that there were Jaredites still around in Nephite times.

These are just a few of the examples of others already being in the Americas. There are more, but I hope you can get the idea from these. This is why it is important to actually study the Book of Mormon, and not just glance over it once or twice and declare oneself an expert on it. The same holds true with the Bible, as well.

[Hemidakota]

Concur....we are going to find out soon when the Lord returns, there were others that were brought to the Americas previously before Lehi and after Jared.

[NeuroTypical]

With all the changes lately, who are the Lamanites?

The Lamanites are who they've always been: (Alma 45:14) "But whosoever remaineth, and is not destroyed in that great and dreadful day, shall be numbered among the Lamanites, and shall become like unto them, all, save it be a few who shall be called the disciples of the Lord; and them shall the Lamanites pursue even until they shall become extinct. And now, because of iniquity, this prophecy shall be fulfilled."

So, according to this prophecy given around 73 B.C., you are a Lamanite if you wake up in the Americas one day around 400 A.D. to discover you are still breathing. Who your parents were doesn't matter. Your religion doesn't matter. Your DNA doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're descended from the folks that came from Jerusalem, or the folks that hot-footed it over the Bering land bridge during the ice age.

I wish more people understood this.

LM

[Honor]

Moshka, I caught the joke, the Laminites. Used to cover cheap furniture or in some cases very expensive furniture that doesn't hold up :)

Ben Raines

LOL I used to work next to a place called Fine Line Laminates. For some reason, whenever I saw their truck, it looked like it said "Nine Fine Lamanites". Very intriguing! Never saw them though, dang it!

[Vort]

LM's answer is very good. In addition, consider Jacob's definition early in the Book of Mormon, when the terminology just gets started:

Jacob 1:14 "...I shall bcall them Lamanites that seek to destroy the people of Nephi, and those who are friendly to Nephi I shall call cNephites, or the dpeople of Nephi..."

Looks to me like "Lamanites" meant pretty much anyone who was a Nephite enemy. Given the state of New World societies at that time (or at least what we know of them), that probably means that anyone who wasn't a Nephite was a "Lamanite".

[lilered]

Lamanites -

Lamanites - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

[Michael_M]

Abraham said:

"I will tel you who the Lamintes are not. They are not the traditional American Indians such as the Navajo, Apache, Crow, Blackfeet, Shosone, etc. It is too complicated to explain but the scholars I read say the same thing."

Trying to say who they are not is harmful and hurtful. The tribes named have LDS members who are also enrolled with these tribes. There are 562 recognized tribes in the United States, eligible for Bureau of Indian Affair services. Among all of these are LDS members. Excluding them from being Book of Mormon descendants is very hurtful to those who think of themselves as being the people who the promises are for.

Of Royal Blood, Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign July 1971 mentions some of these same tribes as being Lamanite. Are a prophet's words to be discounted by scholars?

Opinions and speculation are one thing, but who can or should state that members of the LDS faith are not who they are, as they have been told in scripture, by Prophets and by Stake Patriarchs?

This is a very hurtful and harmful thing that is occurring. News reports of the past few years have shown some indigenous people of both North and South America losing their testimonies because of DNA studies. Those who have the faith to not be shaken by science are now facing members of their own faith telling them who they are not, in contradiction to scripture, words of the prophets, official LDS publications and lesson manuals.

Please consider these thoughts and the faith of other LDS members who are tribal members.

Thank You

[Hemidakota]

When I was on a Lamanite mission, all the inhabitants of the North and South American continent as descendants of the original inhabitants(not the immigrants other than those who intermarried) and all the South Sea islanders were Lamanites. Spencer Kimball and back to Joseph Smith said so. The Book of Mormon is written TO THE LAMANITES.

Now it is changed. Trying to find out Who is a Lamanite is nearly impossible in the church. No more Lamanite Generation at BYU. No more Lamanite Placement Program. No more much of anything in the main thrust of the Book of Mormon in bringing the Gospel to its people.

With all the changes lately, who are the Lamanites?

What has changed? As you already indicated, it was the inter-marrying with those who were considered Nephites, whether it was the land northward or the land southward.

[Hemidakota]

Abraham said:

"I will tel you who the Lamintes are not. They are not the traditional American Indians such as the Navajo, Apache, Crow, Blackfeet, Shosone, etc. It is too complicated to explain but the scholars I read say the same thing."

Trying to say who they are not is harmful and hurtful. The tribes named have LDS members who are also enrolled with these tribes. There are 562 recognized tribes in the United States, eligible for Bureau of Indian Affair services. Among all of these are LDS members. Excluding them from being Book of Mormon descendants is very hurtful to those who think of themselves as being the people who the promises are for.

Of Royal Blood, Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign July 1971 mentions some of these same tribes as being Lamanite. Are a prophet's words to be discounted by scholars?

Opinions and speculation are one thing, but who can or should state that members of the LDS faith are not who they are, as they have been told in scripture, by Prophets and by Stake Patriarchs?

This is a very hurtful and harmful thing that is occurring. News reports of the past few years have shown some indigenous people of both North and South America losing their testimonies because of DNA studies. Those who have the faith to not be shaken by science are now facing members of their own faith telling them who they are not, in contradiction to scripture, words of the prophets, official LDS publications and lesson manuals.

Please consider these thoughts and the faith of other LDS members who are tribal members.

Thank You

I concur with your post. There is not enough evidence to counter the posture of the few who claims otherwise.

Many of those who were of both tribes of Lehi, either escaped northward, flee from the warring factions in Meso-America, those who were people of Jared who also escaped northward seek refuge from the civil wars. There is too much inter-marriage between different culture to make any real determination of who-is-who today.

Then we have other possibilities of other cultures coming to Americas that we are not aware of at this time.

[Michael_M]

Even the speculation of migrations from the south to north is just that. Non LDS scholars have argued that the migration went the other direction. In the long run, none of the theories is as important as keeping faith in the scripture and words of Prophets. I think that harm is done, not intentionally, but by putting more interest in theories than concern for living LDS members. Whatever geography model; LGT, hemispheric etc, remember that these ideas attempt to describe people of the past. Today's living are found on in the entire western hemisphere according to conference talks, Ensign ariticles, and pamphlets such as Christ in America.

[rameumptom]

And for Nephi and his people, cultural ties were just as important as blood lines. Zoramites, Mulekites and others became true Nephites. Sam's lineage was absorbed into Nephi's line. Converted Lamanites became Nephites. Nephites who rebelled became Lamanites. All of this is cultural. All of it is acceptable under Hebrew laws of adoption.

So, are the Cherokee, Navajo and others, Lamanites? Of course they are. Are they blood-line Lamanites? Who really cares? It is the spiritual/cultural promise that is important.

It is akin to members of the Church today, who are told they are descended from Ephraim. How much "blood" from Ephraim do we have? Probably for most Gentiles, it is next to none. It is more likely a spiritual/cultural adoption that occurs, making us just as much a part of spiritual Israel as any of Jesus' original twelve apostles.