Sheep in Wolves Clothing

[richlittell]

What are we to do about those who are not LDS but like to spout off their answers to specific questions on LDS doctrine without giving any disclaimer that they are not LDS (with what I believe is an intentional effort to deceive?

My concern is that this could only add to the confusion of our beliefs to people who come here asking sincere questions about our church (I am not worried about us LDS as we can spot these quite clearly).

Maybe an example is needed. I recently saw a post concernng the Holy Spirit which was obviously seeking an LDS perspective. The second poster gave a rather lengthy response saying how the the Holy Ghost is not a son of god but but was Jehovah without any sort of disclaimer that he was non-LDS.

I started to respond with a post making my own disclaimer that that was not an LDS perpective but as I'm practicing restraint these days, decided not to. Especially since the fact is the post was long enough and my post a few posts down that a non-LDS perusing our site might never even get to that disclaimer. They might see that person's post and then just decide to never come here again.

I'm thinking that since we are a public forum, we are going to have only more and more people who like to come in and cause contention intentionally or try to mislead others who come here in sincerity.

I would make a suggestion that when people sign up they should be required to claim a faith and that this should be posted along with their user name (e.g. Markleberry LDS)

the choices could be just two: LDS, non-LDS; or several: LDS, Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, Atheist, Other.

People could still be dishonest, but they'd be easier to spot and easier to discipline for deceit if it became obvious they were not LDS but claiming to be, and I don't think most would go that far to deceive as that is much more blatant than what they can do now which is just say nothing at all (so they didn't deceive, right?)

But, that was just a suggestion. Are there other suggestions? Or maybe this isn't really such a big deal, just my own feelings. But I am concerned as this site continues to grow that we might need to do something, not for our sakes, but for those who come here seeking sincere answers to sincere questions.

btw, I can't figure out how to post to my "statement of faith" in my profile, but I don't think that is the answer to the problem because a non-member just glancing at our posts won't bother to check out the profile on everyone who has posted.

Thoughts anyone?

Edited September 10, 2008 by richlittell

[pam]

Good suggestion. However, I think even if requiring them to designate a religion or religious belief would not solve the problem. As you stated..they could lie and put LDS. With that LDS on their profile, many who are investigating would then still assume that what they are posting would be lds doctrine. Doesn't solve the problem. All we can do is have everyone keep their eyes open. Use the reported post options and report it. Let the moderators take it from there. We can't catch every post but with people such as yourself assisting us by reporting, we can make this site much better.

[richlittell]

Good suggestion. However, I think even if requiring them to designate a religion or religious belief would not solve the problem. As you stated..they could lie and put LDS. With that LDS on their profile, many who are investigating would then still assume that what they are posting would be lds doctrine. Doesn't solve the problem. All we can do is have everyone keep their eyes open. Use the reported post options and report it. Let the moderators take it from there. We can't catch every post but with people such as yourself assisting us by reporting, we can make this site much better.

Yes, I do agree with you. But I think that most people would not do that, and the few that would, it would be much easier for admin to discipline them or delete posts or whatever, since that kind of deceit would be so blatant and obvious (you couldn't really argue against it), the discipline would stand ( isp banned or whatever). Whereas, like in the example I gave, what can we really do? The poster did not lie, just gave an honest opinion (would be his/her argument). But they opted not to state that their position was a non-LDS view, but neither did they go so far to say they were stating an LDS position, but it could sure give that appearance to others outside our faith. So there isn't really any thing we can do. In the example given, I sure wouldn't want to actually delete the post or ban the user.

Still, I'm not saying may suggestion is a good one, as I'm not sure what to do.

Thanks Pam.

Anyone else?

[WANDERER]

What people usually do is begin their post that follows it with... from the LDS perspective...and carry on. In any case it's usually one post and the entire thread is usually the LDS perspective and it stands out a mile away *or it will* LOL.

For your amusement: When I joined you had to state your religion and it was on your profile. I think one of the choices was LDS/Christian and that confused me to death...couldn't I be Christian and not LDS? I can't remember what I selected...I think it was other.

[a-train]

We need to simply offer as much authentication as possible. When the answer to a given question is in the Book of Mormon, we LDS need to say so. If we get our answer from a conference talk, we should quote it and give the reference.

In some cases, false doctrine may be coming from an honest member of the Church who is simply misinformed. This site will serve them well as other members show their perspective and give sources.

-a-train

[abqfriend]

Hi, I am a Catholic here and feel welcome by most members. I always identify myself as a Catholic in posts-and my profile clearly states my faith tradition. I also have deep respect for other faith traditions.

Hopefully-members here will not lie-but be truthful about their faith tradition.

Carol

Good suggestion. However, I think even if requiring them to designate a religion or religious belief would not solve the problem. As you stated..they could lie and put LDS. With that LDS on their profile, many who are investigating would then still assume that what they are posting would be lds doctrine. Doesn't solve the problem. All we can do is have everyone keep their eyes open. Use the reported post options and report it. Let the moderators take it from there. We can't catch every post but with people such as yourself assisting us by reporting, we can make this site much better.

[Moksha]

I would make a suggestion that when people sign up they should be required to claim a faith and that this should be posted along with their user name (e.g. Markleberry LDS) the choices could be just two: LDS, non-LDS; or several: LDS, Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, Atheist, Other.

Sort of like having to wear a yellow Star of David, but with an Angel Moroni help identify us, eh?

[abqfriend]

If you bring up a list of users-or click on each user of every post on this board-you will find that many are blank.

I would encourage members to fill out their profiles-I always get frustrated when I click on a profile and find it blank.

A statement of faith would also be a good option as well as a filled-out profile.

Carol (a Catholic)

[Iggy]

It would be helpful if our faith was listed directly under our User Name/ member status.

I see no need what so ever for the member status- especially since there is only two. Junior for 99 posts or less and Senior for 100 posts and more. Big Deal. Do away with it and put faith status and gender.

That would be more helpful. When I check someones profile that is mostly what I am looking at. Religion and gender.

[Truegrits]

I totally agree about the gender. I like to know if a poster is male or female, and sometimes it is confusing...

[Elphaba]

What are we to do about those who are not LDS but like to spout off their answers to specific questions on LDS doctrine without giving any disclaimer that they are not LDS (with what I believe is an intentional effort to deceive? But, that was just a suggestion. Are there other suggestions? Or maybe this isn't really such a big deal, just my own feelings. But I am concerned as this site continues to grow that we might need to do something, not for our sakes, but for those who come here seeking sincere answers to sincere questions.

>snip<

btw, I can't figure out how to post to my "statement of faith" in my profile, but I don't think that is the answer to the problem because a non-member just glancing at our posts won't bother to check out the profile on everyone who has posted.

Thoughts anyone?

I say you do nothing.

Everyone is welcome to the site, whether LDS or not. If a person has not broken the rules, then he/she has a right to express an opinion, perspective, or belief that differs from the LDS Church.

If it is relevant, I do say I am an ex-member. Also, in my profile I do self-identify as an atheist.

But not everyone is going to check my profile, and I am not going to start each post with "I am an atheist."

Elphaba

[MarginOfError]

Complete sidenote: I am watching jeopardy, and as I came across the title of this thread, I heard someone on the show say, "What is a sperm whale." The timing was just right so that I ended up reading "Sperm whale in wolf's clothing." I could not figure out what this was going to be about.

Okay, off the sidenote.

[lilered]

I concur with Elphaba:

The majority of posters whether LDS or not are here posting, trying to follow the existing rules and are speaking as good, honest, forum members. We do and will continue to have the occassional poster who attempts to deceive by practicing various non-Christian or devilsh ideals, . The majority should be able to discern by viewing their works and when found, reveal them and notify the proper administrator for further handling.

I personally view the type of behavior by these few posters as great examples for me to use ensure I am on the right path and haven't yet strayed to the dark side.

Edited September 11, 2008 by lilered

[Misshalfway]

Do sheep hide in wolves clothing? :)

Edited September 11, 2008 by Misshalfway

[lilered]

Yes, When the do, they try to pull the wool over your eyes!

[Connie]

I totally agree about the gender. I like to know if a poster is male or female, and sometimes it is confusing...

And sometimes there are people confused about their gender.

But, anyway, i personally really appreciate Prisonchaplain (hope he doesn't mind being singled out). He's not constantly stating he is not LDS, but when it is a question obviously looking for the LDS perspective, he always finds a way to state he is not LDS and then give his take on it. I've seen him do this a few times at least, and he doesn't seem to mind it or get irritated that he constantly has to do it. Or... maybe i should let him speak for himself on that. It would be nice if more non-LDS would follow his example.

[Islander]

Well, I tend to disagree somewhat. If a genuine question is posted in regards to LDS doctrine, I would take issue if a non-member tries to answer that question. I would want to make sure that whatever is posted in reply is truly doctrinally sound. I would not hesitate to clarify an issue if I felt the poster/reponder was not accurate.

[Moksha]

Do sheep hide in wolves clothing? :)

Only those suffering from an obsessive compulsive disorder.

[Moksha]

Only those suffering from an obsessive compulsive disorder.

Or fear of Woolite.

[Elphaba]

Well, I tend to disagree somewhat. If a genuine question is posted in regards to LDS doctrine, I would take issue if a non-member tries to answer that question. I would want to make sure that whatever is posted in reply is truly doctrinally sound. I would not hesitate to clarify an issue if I felt the poster/reponder was not accurate.

What makes you think a non-member wouldn't give a doctrinally sound answer?

I think it is fine to clarify inaccuracies. I do it all the time.

Elphaba

[richlittell]

I say you do nothing.

Everyone is welcome to the site, whether LDS or not. If a person has not broken the rules, then he/she has a right to express an opinion, perspective, or belief that differs from the LDS Church. . .

Elphaba

I don't want to be misunderstood. I didn't say that people weren't welcome and should not be allowed to express their views. My concern was one of identity. And my concern is not for members of this forum, but rather for those who may peruse this site for answers from an LDS viewpoint (although, even as a member, I find myself from time to time trying to figure out which perspective someone is coming from).

Everyone IS welcome here, otherwise, it just might get rather boring around here, however, let not us nor our non-member friends forget, this IS an LDS forum.

In my particular example, an individual (who, by the way, had a perfectly valid view from his/her perspective) quickly responded to a post that was specifically an LDS issue. He/She did so by simply stating the answer in an authoritative manner and backing it up with scripture without any indication that it was not an LDS view (and it was in complete contradiction to our teachings).

I'm all for varied opinions on a topic, it just struck me that if I knew nothing about the church and came across that thread I would have just assumed it was an LDS member speaking on LDS doctrine. That could be very confusing to some.

As for profiles, as I said earlier, I can't figure out how to update that, but also, it's not a very efficient means of identification, as those who peruse this site, I would hope, would read many posts and it would be impractical for them to keep opening up people's profile to figure out what's going on.

[richlittell]

Do sheep hide in wolves clothing? :)

Only the spies.

[WANDERER]

Do sheep hide in wolves clothing? :)

I love that statement...on so many different levels

[Palerider]

I say you do nothing.

Everyone is welcome to the site, whether LDS or not. If a person has not broken the rules, then he/she has a right to express an opinion, perspective, or belief that differs from the LDS Church.

If it is relevant, I do say I am an ex-member. Also, in my profile I do self-identify as an atheist.

But not everyone is going to check my profile, and I am not going to start each post with "I am an atheist."

Elphaba

I am tyring to remember if I know anyone who is Atheist.....the only one I knew gave it up due to lack of holidays.....:D:D:p

[Guest tomk]

What are we to do about those who are not LDS but like to spout off their answers to specific questions on LDS doctrine without giving any disclaimer that they are not LDS (with what I believe is an intentional effort to deceive?

My concern is that this could only add to the confusion of our beliefs to people who come here asking sincere questions about our church (I am not worried about us LDS as we can spot these quite clearly).

Maybe an example is needed. I recently saw a post concernng the Holy Spirit which was obviously seeking an LDS perspective. The second poster gave a rather lengthy response saying how the the Holy Ghost is not a son of god but but was Jehovah without any sort of disclaimer that he was non-LDS.

I started to respond with a post making my own disclaimer that that was not an LDS perpective but as I'm practicing restraint these days, decided not to. Especially since the fact is the post was long enough and my post a few posts down that a non-LDS perusing our site might never even get to that disclaimer. They might see that person's post and then just decide to never come here again.

I'm thinking that since we are a public forum, we are going to have only more and more people who like to come in and cause contention intentionally or try to mislead others who come here in sincerity.

I would make a suggestion that when people sign up they should be required to claim a faith and that this should be posted along with their user name (e.g. Markleberry LDS)

the choices could be just two: LDS, non-LDS; or several: LDS, Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, Atheist, Other.

People could still be dishonest, but they'd be easier to spot and easier to discipline for deceit if it became obvious they were not LDS but claiming to be, and I don't think most would go that far to deceive as that is much more blatant than what they can do now which is just say nothing at all (so they didn't deceive, right?)

But, that was just a suggestion. Are there other suggestions? Or maybe this isn't really such a big deal, just my own feelings. But I am concerned as this site continues to grow that we might need to do something, not for our sakes, but for those who come here seeking sincere answers to sincere questions.

btw, I can't figure out how to post to my "statement of faith" in my profile, but I don't think that is the answer to the problem because a non-member just glancing at our posts won't bother to check out the profile on everyone who has posted.

Thoughts anyone?

This is a non-issue, IMHO.

Those who take the Holy Ghost (the words of Christ) as their guide, are promised they will not be deceived.

There are life-long members of the Church who know the Doctrinal theory inside and out, who do not have an actual relationship with the Lord.

It's not about knowing doctrine. The doctrine is simple. It's about obeying what the Lord commands. His Voice to us during the course of each day. Submitting to His counsel, working on the things He tells us to work on when He tells us to work on them.