What in the heck? No caffeine?

[Truegrits]

You know guys, I did not come up with the tannic acid reason, for not drinking coffee. It was given to us (members) by two Bishops, in two different states.

I do not drink tea or coffee because we have been counseled not to. It really does not matter (to me) the WHY of it. I was just sharing the information I had been given. :)

[jazzy225]

Actually, if you want to follow the "no caffeine" route, then no church member should ever eat chocolate again!

Look in the BYU Bookstore, in the center, lots and lots and lots of fudge/chocolate.

[Elgama]

Look in the BYU Bookstore, in the center, lots and lots and lots of fudge/chocolate.

LOL thats not really chocolate its a candle that lost its wick

Seriously I could so give up chocolate if I lived in the US

-Charley

[NeuroTypical]

Drinks manufacturers add it to beverages because it is extremely addictive.

Can you cite your source there? I was under the impression that caffeine is a mild stimulant, and not incredibly addictive. Of course, different people react differently to active substances. Some don't really find the stimulant stimulating. Others may find too much gives them headaches or makes it impossible to sleep. Some may find it addictive and experience withdrawl symptoms when they try to give it up. Others may find it about as addictive as bread.

Surely, it's important to avoid stuff that is bad for us, and avoid addictive substances. But I'm thinking "extremely addictive" might be a bit much, and I'm thinking painting drinks manufacturers in such an extreme light is unwarranted.

The (ONLY) reason for drinking coffee and tea is to ingest caffeine.

Well, that's flat out untrue. There are plenty of reasons people drink coffee and tea. Tradition, taste, perceived or real health benefits, social acceptance, a way to warm your hands up in the morning, etc.

I think is is naive and rather a poor attempt to rationalize when we say that drinks that contain caffeine are OK because the WoW does not describe in detail such drinks. I suggest that the spirit of the law has always been a better indicator of what we should do than the letter of it.

Obviously, I disagree. From where I'm standing, the spirit of the WoW involves staying away from harmful substances. If you are harmed by caffeine, by all means, stay away from it and rejoice in following the WoW. I'm thinking many people are not harmed by caffeine. I'm one of them.

BTW, I'm the Gospel Principles teacher, and it came time to teach the lesson on the WoW. I specifically asked my Bishop about this. He told me quite clearly that the question he is most asked by the youth is "Will drinking Coke keep me out of the temple", and his answer has always been a resounding "no".

LM

Edited October 29, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[hordak]

You know guys, I did not come up with the tannic acid reason, for not drinking coffee. It was given to us (members) by two Bishops, in two different states.

I do not drink tea or coffee because we have been counseled not to. It really does not matter (to me) the WHY of it. I was just sharing the information I had been given. :)

I have heard it thrown around by others.I've seen bishops so strict they harped on us for Mt Dew at a dance.Not trying to dog you. Problem is when people try to rationalize the WoW they don't realize it should be applied universally.

[Islander]

I will post it again, since for some reason I can not find the previous one.

"The Word of Wisdom put restrictions on members of the Church. To this day those regulations apply to every member and to everyone who seeks to join the Church. They are so compelling that no one is to be baptized into the Church without first agreeing to live by them. No one will be called to teach or to lead unless they accept them. When you want to go to the temple, you will be asked if you keep the Word of Wisdom. If you do not, you cannot go to the house of the Lord until you are fully worthy.

We know that young people generally don’t like restrictions. Believe it or not, we were young once and we remember.

A resistance to anything that limits one’s conduct has almost taken over society. Our whole social order could self-destruct over the obsession with freedom disconnected from responsibility, where choice is imagined to be somehow independent of consequences.

Young people, you must understand that there is something of colossal importance to justify the restrictions imposed by the Word of Wisdom!

While the revelation came first as a “greeting; not by commandment or constraint” (D&C 89:2), when members of the Church had had time to be taught the import of the revelation, succeeding Presidents of the Church declared it to be a commandment. And it was accepted by the Church as such.

The Word of Wisdom was “given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:3). That word principle in the revelation is a very important one. A principle is an enduring truth, a law, a rule you can adopt to guide you in making decisions. Generally principles are not spelled out in detail. That leaves you free to find your way with an enduring truth, a principle, as your anchor.

Members write in asking if this thing or that is against the Word of Wisdom. It’s well known that tea, coffee, liquor, and tobacco are against it. It has not been spelled out in more detail. Rather, we teach the principle together with the promised blessings. There are many habit-forming, addictive things that one can drink or chew or inhale or inject which injure both body and spirit which are not mentioned in the revelation.

Everything harmful is not specifically listed; arsenic, for instance—certainly bad, but not habit-forming! He who must be commanded in all things, the Lord said, “is a slothful and not a wise servant” (D&C 58:26).

In some cultures, native drinks are claimed to be harmless because they are not specifically mentioned in the revelation. Yet they draw members, particularly men, away from their families to parties which certainly offend the principle. Promises made in the revelation will be denied to the careless or the reckless.

Obedience to counsel will keep you on the safe side of life."

Ensign » 1996 » May

The Word of Wisdom:

The Principle and the Promises

President Boyd K. Packer

Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

[NeuroTypical]

Good article, Islander. If I ever find out that caffeine is habit forming, addictive, or harmful to me, I'll stop ingesting it. And I won't put up any shoddy justifications, either.

LM

[Wingnut]

I do not drink tea or coffee because we have been counseled not to. It really does not matter (to me) the WHY of it. I was just sharing the information I had been given. :)

I think that's the key. How many of us have told our kids (or been told by our parents), "Because I'm the mom (or dad) and I said so!"? Can't Heavenly Father do the same? :)

[Hemidakota]

Ah, bringing up dihydrogen monoxide again? Talk about an addictive substance. People who start consuming it, end up having a lifetime addiction to the substance.

Rico, don't become like Wingnut. Think before posting on my comment. I will admit, I do it at times myself and find it quite embarrassing.

I was referring to the abnormal amount of water ingested can float the brain within the cavity and swell other areas of the body that is called 'Hyponatremia'.

CNN ran an news report on a media news woman who died from this.

Woman Dies from Drinking too Much Water

Sunday January 14, 2007

Some athletes are told to load up on water before activity. That may be dangerous advice.

CNN reported on a woman who died Friday from drinking too much water. Jennifer Strange (28) was participating in a radio station's "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" contest to see who could drink the most water before having to go to the bathroom. The condition that results from over-hydrating, hyponatremia, sometimes is seen in infants who are given bottles of water to drink (not a good plan) and also in some athletes who drink as much water as they can before exercising (e.g., marathon runners).

It's important to stay hydrated, but how do you know if you're overdoing it? One of the first signs of water intoxication is swelling. If your fingers start to get puffy where your rings become tight, that could indicate a problem. Other symptoms of hyponatremia are nausea and dizziness. If you experience these symptoms and suspect water intoxication, stop drinking more water (that part should be obvious) and seek medical attention. Eat some food to replace the electrolytes (salts) that are being diluted by the water.

[Islander]

I see with sadness that we tend to justify just about anything with the argument that "it is not explicitly described in revelation" when it comes to the WoW. God gave Israel 10 commandments to live by. Obviously it was not enough for them and the Torah outlines about 600 in the Mitzva. The Rabbis were forced to increase that to 1000's in order to codify every little possible act, circumstance and behavior.

The fixation with the specificity of the Law was such than they missed the concepts and principles the Law supposed to illustrate. They denied the law-giver. Given enough time, revisionism will attempt to negate points of the doctrine and principles because it interferes with people's social agenda.

[Hemidakota]

Islander, I concur. We do not need a detailed listing of what we can do and what we cannot do but an outline to start with as with the WoW, carefully in approaching anything old or new with personal analysis and seek the Spirit for conformation if needed. Elder Bednar said the samething.

I can tell you for those who have Bi-Polar, Caffeine one of three to four cocktail mixture prescribed and recommended in preventing depression. There is a cocktail mixture, put together by ‘over the counter’ consumer level supplements easily purchased, which allows the neurological functions to maintain a positive firing process. Do I condemn this individual against from taking such when medically; it helps the person to live past those moments? Not likely. Even the Native Americans found positive quality with the Coca bean for medically uses.

Again, everything in moderation…

[mnn727]

You know guys, I did not come up with the tannic acid reason, for not drinking coffee. It was given to us (members) by two Bishops, in two different states.

:)

They were wrong - 100% wrong.

Its not caffeine, its not tannic acid or anything else that men come up with as an excuse. Mankind wants to come up with reasons for everything so they start speculating -- much of the Anti material out there is there because people have speculated when they should not have.

God Commanded, I Covenanted, end of story.

Edited October 30, 2008 by mnn727

[Maureen]

It is not the caffeine in coffee, or we would be able to drink the caffeine-free variety. It is the tannic acid.

That is so ridiculous. There are so many food items that contain tannins your leaders would have to add those to the taboo list also.

Foods with tannins

Tea, Wine, Fruits (Pomegranates, Persimmons, Berries [cranberries, strawberries and blueberries, contain both hydrolyzable and condensed tannins]), Smoked foods, Beer, Citrus, fruit juices (Although citrus fruits do not themselves contain tannins, orange-colored juices often contain food dyes with tannins. Apple juice, grape juices and berry juices are all high in tannins. Sometimes tannins are even added to juices and ciders to create a more astringent feel to the taste), Condiments (Cloves, tarragon, cumin, thyme, vanilla, and cinnamon all contain tannins), Legumes (Red-colored beans contain the most tannins...), Chocolate.

Tannin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M.

[Maureen]

...The (ONLY) reason for drinking coffee and tea is to ingest caffeine...

Another crazy statement. I drink coffee and tea because I like them. I like the warmth they provide and the taste. I like how they compliment certain foods, especially desserts.

M.

[john doe]

Let's remember to be nice, guys.

[Wingnut]

Rico, don't become like Wingnut. Think before posting on my comment. I will admit, I do it at times myself and find it quite embarrassing.

I'm not sure what you mean by this...

[jadams_4040]

After reading a few replys to the post, all i want to ay is that we all know what happens to our demeaners attitude and temperment when taking a good dose of caffeine or anything else into our bodies, caffeine changes behaviuor and turns us into something that we are not. Does not matter what kind of excuse any body might have to continue there addiction, it is not good for obvious reasons, My personal body will not let me even take one cup of coffee , it makes me shake,tremble,sweat, not think correctly, become short tempored, I know this is unusual, but it is true, and i know if affects me extremely bad compared to most. {i used to drink coffee by the ton without these problems}.Even though it affects me unusually hard, it still tells a wealth of information that IT IS NOT GOOD.:) It takes away our natural personality. AND degrades physical health over time {I know}.

[deseretgov]

I don't drink caffeine at all. Non for me. I was raised that way and I'm going to raie my kids that way too. The funny thing is that the only time I have had caffeine was on my mission.

[SMG]

I've also heard the "no caffeine, period" and "it's because of the tannic acid!" lines when I was growing up. I COULD have that cup of coffee or tea, if I really wanted to, but I've realized as I've gotten older that I pretty much promised not to drink or use those substances prohibited by the Word of Wisdom. Realizing that it is because I made a promise not to ingest or use those things makes it easier for me to leave those things alone. :)

I'm sensitive to caffeine, myself. More than a small cupful of a drink with caffeine in it, like Pepsi, Coke, Mtn. Dew, will give me heartburn and makes me flushed. Not comfortable at all. HOWEvER, there's nothing wrong with using herbal teas for medicinal uses, as far as I know. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. For example, rose hip tea does wonders for menstrual pain and doesn't upset my stomach like ibuprofen and aspirin do.

That being said, anyone getting between me and my few sips of Dr. Pepper and my raspberry filled dark chocolate Godiva each week is going to lose a hand... I'm not addicted, I just like the taste!

[deseretgov]

Yes I've had herbal tea before. When I was in the Philippines I heard about some kind fo rice coffee that was ok to drink too.

[Elgama]

After reading a few replys to the post, all i want to ay is that we all know what happens to our demeaners attitude and temperment when taking a good dose of caffeine or anything else into our bodies, caffeine changes behaviuor and turns us into something that we are not. Does not matter what kind of excuse any body might have to continue there addiction, it is not good for obvious reasons, My personal body will not let me even take one cup of coffee , it makes me shake,tremble,sweat, not think correctly, become short tempored, I know this is unusual, but it is true, and i know if affects me extremely bad compared to most. {i used to drink coffee by the ton without these problems}.Even though it affects me unusually hard, it still tells a wealth of information that IT IS NOT GOOD.:) It takes away our natural personality. AND degrades physical health over time {I know}.

But that is you - personally because of my illness if anything caffeine makes me better tempered and calm instead of strung out and angry, I do occasionally have a Pepsi or an IRN BRU without it I would not get the kids to bed on time etc, and a can of Pepsi will also for whatever reason prevent or stop my migraines escalating - I am at the stage in my life where my children are the most important thing, later I can cut it out entirely. I am not addicted as I can go weeks or even if I am feeling good months without ever touching a caffinated drink - but I do have about 3 glasses a week when I am alone with kids -

Yes it is harmful - but no more harmful than say co-codamol or paracetomol or asprin taken over a long time in fact if anything less so as in the doses I take caffeine my teeth are the worst area hit rather than my liver or stomach. And some of the painkillers I could take are also highly addictive and contain caffeine to bind them

It is a decision each of us makes.

-Charley

Edited October 30, 2008 by Elgama

[NeuroTypical]

I see with sadness that we tend to justify just about anything with the argument that "it is not explicitly described in revelation" when it comes to the WoW.

Meh. I see with boring regularity that we tend to elevate cultural norms to the status of God's revealed word, and then look down with sadness at those who don't share our illogical leaps.

Islander, did you miss my post where my Bishop told me specifically that drinking Coke won't keep a youth away from a temple recommend? Do you choose to also look down on my Bishop with this same sadness?

LM

[NeuroTypical]

I'm sensitive to caffeine, myself. More than a small cupful of a drink with caffeine in it, like Pepsi, Coke, Mtn. Dew, will give me heartburn and makes me flushed. Not comfortable at all.

Yep, there are plenty of folks who react in similar ways.

My wife can get rid of a migraine with a big shot of caffeine. I've tested myself by drinking a 6pack of Coke an hour before bed, and had no problem sleeping through the night. I've also gone without caffeine for a 3 month period just to see what would happen, and nothing did.

LM

[Iggy]

Took me a while to find an existing thread regarding the Word of Wisdom.

This thread seems to fit the bill.

Did anyone read December's Ensign? Pages 48-52 specifically?

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Energy Drink Epidemic

The Energy Drink Epidemic

By Thomas J. Boud, MD Dr. Boud works in family medicine at a primary care facility and volunteers for the Church as a consulting physician in the Missionary Medical Department

Boud states in this article he was treating an elderly female patient for several serious conditions, including an irregular heart condition and insomnia, was treating her with aggressive therapy for severe osteoporosis. He had repeatedly tried to convince her to eliminate one particular habit that was making her condition worse.

To quote from the article . . .

a habit that often is not taken seriously and that can have an enormous impact on one’s health. This habit involves the abuse of a drug to which most people give little thought, even though it is now the most commonly abused drug on the planet. What was her habit? Excessive cola consumption. The drug? Caffeine.

Farther in the article he states:

I have treated a number of caffeine-related medical conditions. Milder conditions include jitteriness, agitation, insomnia, difficulty concentrating, and rapid heart rate. Use of caffeine can lead to a decrease in cerebral blood flow in adults and could increase the chance of compromising long-term growth in infants.4 Caffeine can also precipitate other conditions that can lead to further problems. Here’s an example: Using caffeine on a long-term basis to compensate for tiredness resulting from life-style choices results not only in sleep deprivation but also in physiological stress. These in turn can lead to an increased level of certain hormones that can lower one’s metabolism. A lower metabolism leads to an increased craving of carbohydrates and sugars and often will result in weight gain. Ironically, many people use these drinks in order to lose weight, whereas just the opposite may occur. Many physicians believe that this process has contributed significantly to the current problem of obesity in the United States. Weight gain has a negative influence on the medical conditions of sleep apnea, diabetes, depression, and even cardiac and cerebrovascular disease.

Then finally:

Caffeine Abuse and the Word of Wisdom

Now what does this mean for us as Latter-day Saints? While we are counseled against taking addictive substances or harmful drugs, the Word of Wisdom does not specifically prohibit caffeine. However, I believe that if we follow the spirit of the Word of Wisdom, we will be very careful about what we consume, particularly any substance that can have a negative impact on our bodies. This is true regarding any drug, substance, or even food that may be damaging to one’s health. This includes caffeine. Think of all the problems that excessive caffeine use causes that could be avoided by following this counsel.

Caffeine Content in Common Beverages

Source: Caffeine Content of Drinks

While most sodas can be purchased in 12-ounce cans, energy drinks are sold in a variety of volumes, many of which are greater than 12 ounces. The orange line depicts the amount of caffeine in various beverages per 12 ounces. The yellow line depicts the total amount of caffeine in each can or bottle as it is normally sold.

Regular Cola

41 mg Caffeine

Tea, Brewed

47 mg Caffeine

Coffee, Instant

57 mg Caffeine

Coffee, Brewed

107.5 mg Caffeine

Weak Energy Drink

120 mg Caffeine

Average Energy Drink

220 mg Caffeine

Extreme Energy Drink

500+ mg Caffeine

I am guilty of drinking caffeinated soft drinks and even Ice Tea. I KNOW that consumption of any soft drink (carbonated drink) causes me to cramp. That alone should stop me, yet it doesn't. I drink Ice Tea because I tell myself it is COLD, not hot drink. DUMB I know.

While serving in the Young Women's I witnessed nearly all the youth, the YW & YM leaders, the parents of the youth drinking those power/energy drinks.

I wondered then, how long would it be before the First Presidency would come out against these drinks?

Now is the time.

Brother Boud has brought it to our attention in this article.

Go to the very end of his article, and read his list of resources. I am truly impressed, and I know that Father has answered my question.

PS: My goal for 2009 is to totally quit drinking all soda's and Ice Tea.

[Aesa]

The closest we've got, is an interview with Larry King and President Hinckley, where Larry is naming off things unique to mormons, and Pres. Hinckley is nodding his head and saying yes. Larry says something like "Mormons don't drink Coke" and Pres. Hinckley says something like "Yes, that's right, we don't".

I cannot be bothered reading through to see if this has already been stated.

Remember the first interview Pres. Hinckley did, too.

In it the interviewer (Mike Wallace?) went through "No alcohol, no tobacco, no tea, no coffee ... not even caffienated soft drinks?" To which Hinckley answered "Right! It's wonderful."