Oh for crying out loud, take your kid out of the chapel.

[RachelleDrew]

I'm sorry, but if your spaw...I mean child is rolling around on the floor, screaming at the top of their lungs and generally being a total brat and disrupting sacrament meetings then you need to take them out.

Why is this so difficult for parents to understand? In our ward there is no excuse not to, there is a speaker system in all the classrooms and in all the halls so you can hear the talk as it's going on no matter what room you are in. If you are in the foyer adjacent to the chapel the boys will BRING the sacrament out to you. So why on earth are some parents so insistent upon keeping their kids in the chapel while they are in the middle of a fit?

The two kids in question have no disabilities or disorders, they are just constantly indulged by their parents so they've turned into animals. They bawl and scream during sacrament while their parents more or less pretend it's not happening. This sunday they decided to have a jousting match during the meeting near the back where I was sitting. I couldn't hear a word of fast and testimony meeting. I very nearly smacked them across the face.

Seriously, can someone explain to me why some parents think it's okay for their kids to do this? I really shouldn't even be mad at the kids when it's their parents who allow it to happen.

[skylercollins]

It's probably okay to let your Bishop know your concerns so that he can talk with the family, if he hasn't already.

Also, for some reason, our stake doesn't allow the wards to pass the sacrament into the foyer. I've been in stakes where that was done, but not this one. Weird.

[MarginOfError]

This sunday they decided to have a jousting match during the meeting near the back where I was sitting. I couldn't hear a word of fast and testimony meeting. I very nearly smacked them across the face.

Next time, smack them...if they don't settle down, pick them up and take them out for the parents. The embarrassment might send a good signal.

[pam]

Oh you shouldn't EVEN get me started on this one. It's not just Church it's everywhere.

It's one of my biggest pet peeves. Parents that don't control their kids. My son and I were at dinner the other night. Booth behind me had 3 kids. Parents were letting them run up and down the aisles and around tables. Then one was leaning over the booth and kept hitting me in the back of the head. Then there was a feeble attempt at getting them to sit and the screaming started. I finally asked to be moved to another table.

Or the kids that come into my store and are left to do whatever they want while the parents look around. Knocking things over. Sticking their hands into the jerky. One even got an ice cream sandwich out of the ice cream freezer and was licking the side of it. When I told the parent they would have to pay for that as it was now not salable she threw a fit about that. Sheesh!!!!!!

[BenRaines]

:) :) :)

[pam]

Next time, smack them...if they don't settle down, pick them up and take them out for the parents. The embarrassment might send a good signal.

Or could backfire. The parents could be just the type that would think "Oh good..someone else is dealing with them."

[Hemidakota]

I'm sorry, but if your spaw...I mean child is rolling around on the floor, screaming at the top of their lungs and generally being a total brat and disrupting sacrament meetings then you need to take them out.

Why is this so difficult for parents to understand? In our ward there is no excuse not to, there is a speaker system in all the classrooms and in all the halls so you can hear the talk as it's going on no matter what room you are in. If you are in the foyer adjacent to the chapel the boys will BRING the sacrament out to you. So why on earth are some parents so insistent upon keeping their kids in the chapel while they are in the middle of a fit?

The two kids in question have no disabilities or disorders, they are just constantly indulged by their parents so they've turned into animals. They bawl and scream during sacrament while their parents more or less pretend it's not happening. This sunday they decided to have a jousting match during the meeting near the back where I was sitting. I couldn't hear a word of fast and testimony meeting. I very nearly smacked them across the face.

Seriously, can someone explain to me why some parents think it's okay for their kids to do this? I really shouldn't even be mad at the kids when it's their parents who allow it to happen.

No different from adults speaking while Sacrament is being conducted. But I do agree, it is disruptive for the others to listen too. At times, I wonder if it is a child raising a child.

[Wingnut]

Rachelle, I'm SOOOOOOO with you on this. In fact, I was thinking about it a lot this weekend. We had our ward Christmas party on Saturday night. There were a few kids who were just doing laps in the hallway, screaming and running like banshees. Where were their parents? Did their parents have any clue that their spaw...I mean children...were missing? In one case, a family who has a three year old boy let him roam the hallways running into people left and right, and didn't keep a hold of their nearly two year old daughter so that she didn't pull the serving spoon out of the Jell-o salad and put it in her mouth. TWICE. The public Jell-o salad. The running was particularly frustrating to me, as I'm on the Activities Committee and was carrying food from the kitchen to the cultural hall, and kept getting run down my mini-banshees.

And then in Sacrament meeting yesterday, a friend of mine was sitting in the overflow section with her husband and their 15 month old son (the over flow section). Twice during Sacrament meeting, one parent had to retrieve their son from the steps going up to the stand. How/Why do they let him get that far without getting him sooner? His vocabulary is limited to "Mama, Dada" and a few others...I know he wasn't going to bear his testimony.

Okay, I think I'm done venting.

[pam]

Wingers I'm with you on that one as well. Having been an Ward Activities Chairman and coordinating numerous Christmas dinners. It's frustrating to have kids running all over the Church into areas that have nothing to do with the activity at hand. I was frustrated from a cleaning standpoint. Instead of just having to clean the cultural hall and kitchen I was cleaning the entire building. Because it never failed that I would find food all down the hallways.

[BenRaines]

But these children are just little spirits with lots of heavenly energy.

Ben Raines

[pam]

But even little spirits with lots of heavenly energy can be taught some earthly manners.

[beefche]

See, I've been at activities with kids running wild. I eventually catch them and either threaten their lives (usually the threat of kissing their face does it) or take them to their parents (and then tell the parents I threatened to kiss their face).

It's harder while in Sacrament--I haven't figured out what to do yet. I've been sitting in the foyer lately and there is one lady who brings her kids out (while her husband sits in the chapel). The kiddos are young, granted, but she won't correct them with other than "please sit quietly." I don't have kids, but I've been around enough to know that a 3 yr old doesn't respond well to that entreaty.

[BenRaines]

Pam, you gotta know I am busting a gut laughing over this one. My wife and I fight each Sunday to find the spirit in a ward with over 200 kids in the primary. Parents who sit on the end of the pews so that their kids can run up and down the row while in Sacrament meeting. Screaming kids that are not taken out and as Hemi said adults who can't keep their mouth shut during Sacrament meeting. What is so important for an adult to tell another adult other than "I am having a heart attack". If not that then it can wait until after the meeting is over.

I would never think to chit chat during a temple session and we should treat Sacrament meeting the same. Elder Oakes in this last general conference gave a great talk on Sacrament meeting and how we should prepare for it and how we should be in the meeting.

Some day I will boil over and stand up in the middle of the meeting and yell at someone to shut up.

Another pet peeve is that for years there seems to be someone who thinks it is appropriate to clip their fingernails in Sacrament meeting. Arrrrgggghhhh

I won't even get going on those who think that Testimony meeting is time to practice their standup comedy routine instead of sharing a testimony. Pausing often for laugh breaks as they go on and on.

Ben Raines

[Hemidakota]

Laughter.....clipping nails in Sacrament? Ok! That is new one for me. I need to look around for that one.

[ninjormon]

I think you might be talking about me and my kids, j/k we were home cause the kids were home sick yesterday. Week after week I try to get my daughter to sit still, my wife gives her activities to do before she even gets bored. My daughter then wants to run around becasue she is used to my wife letting her do what she wants and not making her ever focus on a single task. Then my daughter with her little high heels runs in the cultural hall, shes loud enough for everyone to hear. I am embarrased but do my best to try to contain her. Sometimes she is better than others. This problem starts at home. Some cases its both parents sometimes it is jst the one that stays home while the other works. Personally I try my best to keep her in control but the only way to get her to try is for me to try. But everyone should know when the noise limit is exceeded

[skylercollins]

No different from adults speaking while Sacrament is being conducted. But I do agree, it is disruptive for the others to listen too. At times, I wonder if it is a child raising a child.

My wife told me that ladies were talking behind her during the temple session we attended last week.

[Wingnut]

But these children are just little spirits with lots of heavenly energy.

Ben Raines

Can I unrighteously use the laugh button?

Actually, our ward has another problem in addition to kids screaming in Sacrament meeting. We have the same set of parents taking their kids out of the chapel every week, and instead of keeping them in control, they let them roam the hallways. For the <18 month old kids who can't go to nursery yet, this behavior continues all three hours. A month or so ago in Sacrament meeting, they announced that if people were going home for Christmas and needed a temple recommend renewed, to do it with tithing settlement, because the bishop wouldn't be doing it over the phone on the spot (we have a lot of students in our ward who go home for several weeks at Christmas). That announcement was followed up with "We've noticed that there are a lot of you with young children who stay in the hallways during Sunday School and Priesthood/Relief Society. We'd like to remind you that 'attending all your meetings' is a temple recommend question, and we'd like to invite you to join us in class."

I thought that was pretty funny.

[pam]

What a great way to lead into it.

[TheyCallMeMom]

I have 7 children ages 10 and under

Under NO circumstances are they allowed to be disruptive in the chapel, Especially during sacrament

its not hard to teach your children reverence.. even my daughter, who is not quite 2 understands this..

I let my kids burn their energy and be kids for 167 hours a week.. they can sit still and be reverent for 1.

But I blame the parents.. My husband has seen priesthood holders using blackberrys etc while he was passing sacrament..

if the adults cant show reverence, how is the child to know

[pam]

Exactly

[NeuroTypical]

Seriously, can someone explain to me why some parents think it's okay for their kids to do this?

Here's my attempt at an answer. Consider the possibility that these parents don't "think it's ok", but that there is something getting in the way of them doing what needs to be done.

Stephen Covey tells a great story about a subway ride, where a dad and his three screaming brats jump on. Dad just sits there looking at the floor while the 3 kids go nuts - screaming at each other, pulling at newspapers other riders are trying to read, just awful stuff. And the dad sits there and does nothing. Finally, Stephen asks the dad if he might do a little more to control his kids. The dad pulls his gaze up off the floor, looks around him like he's finally back in the real world, and says "Yeah, I guess I should. We just came from the hospital - their mom died a few hours ago."

Now, of course not everybody with screaming brats in sacrament meeting had a mom just die. But dang - are you really willing to sit there and pass judgement on them by not even considering that something else might be up? Did someone just lose a job? Were the parents up to 3am last night fighting, or helping a sick kid, or any of the other billions of things that happen to people that might make it difficult to control kids in sacrament?

Surely, some parents are just rude jerks and bad parents and just think 'it's okay'. But it seems to me if we figure we need to pass a judgement coming to such a conclusion, we ought to try to base it on more than the display we're shown in Sac. Mtg.

In the quiet heart is hidden Sorrow that the eye can’t see.

- "Lord, I Would Follow Thee"

LM

[BenRaines]

LM, I agree and have often offered to help. I have been around long enough to see different types of misbehavior. When it is week after week after month after month I think it is just more than the good story you read. I think I remember that one too it was in Stephen R Covey's son's book The Speed of Trust. A great book.

OK that excuses the children and I am sure that the people who constantly chit chat in Sacrament meeting must have some urgent need to get resolved right now.

Most children learn by observing adults or their parents. If adults can't set the example then why should children be expected to behave.

Ben Raines

[MarginOfError]

It is true that there may be circumstances we don't understand in these situations. But not every situation is like this. If this behavior is consistent from week to week it isn't very likely that it's a sudden tragedy or concern that's causing the result. In situations where it's a regular occurrence, a couple of different things have to be considered, such as the age of the children and their knowledge and growth outside of Sacrament.

A tale of two families (true story--from a previous ward):

One family had two boys who were very rowdy when I moved in. I thought the parents were terrible at controlling their kids as they would bounce and jump and roll and yell all through Sacrament meeting. I think one was 3 and the other was 1 year old at the time. But within a year, the older boy would either sit in the pew, or he might kneel on the floor to put his coloring book on the pew, but you rarely heard a word from him, except when he needed to defend his crayons from being broken or stomped on by his brother.

The younger boy, after a year, was still a little too loud, but there were no sudden loud screeches. He just talked loud. He still had problems sitting still, but there was a marked improvement. I understood a little bit more when I visited their home and saw that the home was spotless, the toys all picked up (except for what was in use) and these boys literally climbing the walls (okay, they were climbing the door jambs). These two boys just had so much energy that it took them a few years to learn to contain it through Sacrament, but learn they did.

Furthermore, these two were in no way missing out on learning the Gospel. They were learning it at home and were very well taught. Turns out, my initial judgments were very off the mark.

The second family had a couple of children. They were determined to teach their children that Sacrament meeting is the most important meeting of the week, and so there was no excuse to miss it (except contagious illnesses, I presume). As such, no matter what the kids did, the parents would never, ever take them out of Sacrament. The kids would roll on the floor and scream, fight with each other, try to escape from their parents, and most of the time their parents simply ignored them and focused on the speaker. When the kids realized that their parents were ignoring them, they turned to the families around them and did everything they could to get whatever attention they could. In the years I saw this family, nothing ever changed. Even when bishops suggested that the parents try different methods, nothing happened. The parents were determined to do it their way.

The kids also carried these disruptions into other classes and I never saw any sign that they were developing their own knowledge of the Gospel. Church to them was just a time of the week when mom and dad weren't paying attention.

So, anyway, if you're going to decide if the parents are doing enough (or anything) about kids' bad behavior, make sure you take into account their history.

[BenRaines]

I see more of family two than family one.

Ben Raines

[KristofferUmfrey]

I'm sorry, but if your spaw...I mean child is rolling around on the floor, screaming at the top of their lungs and generally being a total brat and disrupting sacrament meetings then you need to take them out.

Why is this so difficult for parents to understand? In our ward there is no excuse not to, there is a speaker system in all the classrooms and in all the halls so you can hear the talk as it's going on no matter what room you are in. If you are in the foyer adjacent to the chapel the boys will BRING the sacrament out to you. So why on earth are some parents so insistent upon keeping their kids in the chapel while they are in the middle of a fit?

The two kids in question have no disabilities or disorders, they are just constantly indulged by their parents so they've turned into animals. They bawl and scream during sacrament while their parents more or less pretend it's not happening. This sunday they decided to have a jousting match during the meeting near the back where I was sitting. I couldn't hear a word of fast and testimony meeting. I very nearly smacked them across the face.

Seriously, can someone explain to me why some parents think it's okay for their kids to do this? I really shouldn't even be mad at the kids when it's their parents who allow it to happen.

As a missionary in my last area, there was this obnoxious little kid that was allowed to run amok during sacrament meeting. One Sunday while I was giving my testimony, he was up on the podium making faces at the Ward, and the parents and grandparents did nothing. When I was done, I picked him up, flung him over my shoulder walked to the back and handed him to his Dad. They got the point. From then on whenever the kid saw me his face would crinkle up and he's do the little kid arm swing thing towards me, but he knew where he stood.

If you know the family well enough, calmly walk over, look the father in the eye, pick the kids up and take them out. Someone has to parent the kids at some point.