Discrimination for having not served a mission

[Gwen]

please forgive me, this may come off sounding rude but i really don't mean it to be.... yes i know the "you aren't an rm so i won't date you" does happen but is it possible that it is just their excuse cause they are unsure of the asperger's syndrome?

when i was dating some of the things i had as a criteria were, will he be able to support a family? not just education wise but will he do anything with his education. is he motivated, will he compete in the business world, how seriously does he take his callings, etc.

my point is, you may be seeing the rm issue or they may be using to avoid what they may be really thinking. will you be able to support a family? will you be an equal coparent or will they be carrying the load? if they don't understand asperger's syndrome that can be very intimadating. there are a lot more steryotypes you are up against here than just not being an rm.

again, hope that doesn't sound offensive, just trying to offer another perspective. and in the same sentiment as everyone else about the rm issue. if she is that unknowledgable and that unwilling to learn about it and actually get to know you before making a decision then she is a waste of your time.

good luck.

[BenRaines]

Here is a description. I had asked but didnt' get one so found one online. This may help to understand why things seem as they do.

What Is Asperger Syndrome?

By Barbara L. Kirby

Founder of the OASIS Web site (Asperger Syndrome OASIS)

Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005) Asperger Syndrome or (Asperger's Disorder) is a neurobiological disorder named for a Viennese physician, Hans Asperger, who in 1944 published a paper which described a pattern of behaviors in several young boys who had normal intelligence and language development, but who also exhibited autistic-like behaviors and marked deficiencies in social and communication skills. In spite of the publication of his paper in the 1940's, it wasn't until 1994 that Asperger Syndrome was added to the DSM IV and only in the past few years has AS been recognized by professionals and parents.

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.

At this time there is a great deal of debate as to exactly where AS fits. It is presently described as an autism spectrum disorder and Uta Frith, in her book AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, described AS individuals as "having a dash of Autism". Some professionals feel that AS is the same as High Functioning Autism, while others feel that it is better described as a Nonverbal Learning Disability. AS shares many of the characteristics of PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder; Not otherwise specified), HFA, and NLD and because it was virtually unknown until a few years ago, many individuals either received an incorrect diagnosis or remained undiagnosed. For example, it is not at all uncommon for a child who was initially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD be re-diagnosed with AS. In addition, some individuals who were originally diagnosed with HFA or PDD-NOS are now being given the AS diagnosis and many individuals have a dual diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism.

[Wingnut]

However if I wasn't already married might make an exception for FunkyTown lol so I would take his advice/

-Charley

Among the married women here, I already claimed him.

It would be like the women who get upset at the guy who refuses to date overweight women while they themselves only date tall men.

What a silly analogy. If a guy refuses to date overweight women, it may be because he finds them unattractive, perhaps even repulsive. If a woman only dates tall men, it may be because she herself is tall, or because she feels "safe" when she is with a tall man.

Regardless of the reasons for either preference, it's as silly as saying that I'm discriminating against Chinese people because I like Italian and Mexican food, but not Chinese food. It's not discrimination...it's preference.

That being said I can see how marring someone of the same faith can help but their are exceptions.

I sincerely hope that no one is being marred.

[AngelonaWing]

Brick....... I know of an exceptional young man who is HIGH FUNCTIONING With Autism I don't know if its Asberger's or not.. but He is not able to serve the 2 year mission that most folks think is the only mission.. There are all kinds of Missions you can do... Service Missions come to my mind. This Young man is serving a mission with Special Needs Mutual....... and is very good friend to all.

[AngelonaWing]

. I have TWO sons with Autism..... not as high functioning as you .... My oldest son is 28 Lives in the Development center in American Fork,Utah. He has Autism and Compulsive disorder( gets angry) My second son is 26 He lives at home.. Was just ordained a Teacher in Feb, 2008. His Mission in life is just being him..... He is the welcome wagon to everyone in the neighborhood. Go easy on yourself.... Attend Institute..Go where the LDS Gals are.. If your worthy for a Temple Recomend I would think that is the most important aspect.

[hordak]

What a silly analogy. If a guy refuses to date overweight women, it may be because he finds them unattractive, perhaps even repulsive. If a woman only dates tall men, it may be because she herself is tall, or because she feels "safe" when she is with a tall man

It may be because he doesn't want a wife with higher health risk,Like not dating a smoker

He could feer she has no self control

It could be any number of reasons

Regardless of the reasons for either preference, it's as silly as saying that I'm discriminating against Chinese people because I like Italian and Mexican food, but not Chinese food. It's not discrimination...it's preference.

No Its nothing like that.

Discrimination is choice, choice is preference.. There is nothing wrong with it. Whether based on age, gender, political affiliation, weight, height, religion etc.

Point is we all have different standards of who is the ideal mate. Don't get upset that you don't fit someones while rejecting those who don't fit yours.

[Hemidakota]

Anyone watch the movie FRONT OF THE CLASS?

[Gwen]

Anyone watch the movie FRONT OF THE CLASS?

i did, and so did my kids

[Hemidakota]

They say men don't cry....I surely did when I watched it with my daughter.

[OtterPop]

anotherbrick,

Your profile says that you live in Provo and are 23 years old. I think you are at the worst age and in the worst place in regard to dating LDS girls and not being an RM. I'm sure you do have a hard time dating. As you get a bit older -- and in almost any other place -- your RM status will not be nearly the issue it is now. If you don't have anything holding you to Provo specifically, move north of Point of the Mountain. You will notice a difference.

[RickJ]

anotherbrick,

I am a convert to the church, I joined when I was 25. It is funny but I have found some discrimination about not having served a mission as well but mine is not from LDS females. In point of fact I have married a lovely girl who was raised in the church, to her the fact that I did not serve was irrelevant.

Where the discrimination has come from for me was from Current and Returned Missionaries. 80% of those that I meet for the first time immediately ask me where did I serve my mission. I get out the line "I didn't serve a mission..." and watch a brick-wall go up and have had some of these men turn away from me instantly and start talking to other people. What I was going to say to them was "I didn't serve a mission because I joined the church at 25, was working already and had a widowed mother to support but my wife and I feel that we will serve missions together later in life."

Honestly, don't let it get to you. There is a girl out there for you, the right girl and she will love you and want to be with you forever because of who you are, not because you served a mission.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Bearing in mind that every member is a missionary you don't have to have served a full-time mission to be a missionary. Some of the greatest missionary work is done by people who never leave home.

Some have asked why is it important to marry a church member - well if you want your marriage and family to last for eternity you need to be married in the temple and only worthy church members can be married in the temple. My first husband was LDS. He died, but we are sealed and will hopefully be reuinited and live as man and wife for eternity. My second husband is not LDS and I thought it would not matter as I was not looking for an eternal companion but there are so many other things too. As he doesn't have the priesthood he cannot bless a sick child. He attends sacrament meeting but no other meetings. We don't have the long involved discussions about the gospel that I used to have with my first husband. I miss that.

With my first husband we served as Stake Missionaries and had planned on serving a mission together when we retired. That will not now happen. Yes it does make a difference.

[RachelleDrew]

I'm sorry that you have to deal with that. I don't see it so much living in the midwest where our culture isn't so saturated with everything LDS. But I do see it occasionally, and it makes me so sad that the priority of some of our sisters rest entirely on catching an RM and nothing else.

I've met good young men who were terribly lonely because of their non-RM status and i've met ladies with broken hearts and homes because they didn't realize that RM status is not the only ingredient in making a good husband.

A young man serving an honorable mission to the church is giving the promise of a great blessing to his family. I think it's appropriate that every person who can serve a mission, should serve one.

With that being said, your honor as a man is not tarnished just because you couldn't (or chose not to) serve a mission. If a girl won't give a perfectly respectable, honorable man a chance just because he didn't serve a mission? Her loss. But it's also her choice.

My husband didn't serve a mission because he was inactive. I wish for HIS sake that he would have gone on one because I know he regrets it.

But do I mind? Heck no, my husband is far more kind, patient, Christlike (and cute!) than any RM i've ever met.

Just be patient. There is a girl out there who will think you are the best with or without that nametag. And you can always serve in other ways.

[StrawberryFields]

Anotherbrick

I have a son who is now about your age and he also could not go because health reasons. I have seen discrimination for as many if not more guys towards him than I have girls.

Have you had your patriarchal blessing yet? If you have not, and are worthy, I would encourage you to get it. I think sometimes in our youth we are much harder on ourselves than need me. I have seen young people in the church actually place themselves outside of the church because they feel like they don’t belong. I agree that you should continue to seek what is important to you and be true to the faith. I believe that the Lord will pick up the slack once we have done all that we can do.

[Wingnut]

Discrimination is choice, choice is preference.. There is nothing wrong with it. Whether based on age, gender, political affiliation, weight, height, religion etc.

Okay, yes, technically. Discrimination = choosing one thing (or set of things) over another. Technically. But not in the commonly thought of context given here and I think you know that.

anotherbrick,

Your profile says that you live in Provo and are 23 years old. I think you are at the worst age and in the worst place in regard to dating LDS girls and not being an RM. I'm sure you do have a hard time dating. As you get a bit older -- and in almost any other place -- your RM status will not be nearly the issue it is now. If you don't have anything holding you to Provo specifically, move north of Point of the Mountain. You will notice a difference.

Yeah, the OP definitely needs to get out of "happy" valley.

anotherbrick,

I am a convert to the church, I joined when I was 25. It is funny but I have found some discrimination about not having served a mission as well but mine is not from LDS females. In point of fact I have married a lovely girl who was raised in the church, to her the fact that I did not serve was irrelevant.

Where the discrimination has come from for me was from Current and Returned Missionaries. 80% of those that I meet for the first time immediately ask me where did I serve my mission. I get out the line "I didn't serve a mission..." and watch a brick-wall go up and have had some of these men turn away from me instantly and start talking to other people. What I was going to say to them was "I didn't serve a mission because I joined the church at 25, was working already and had a widowed mother to support but my wife and I feel that we will serve missions together later in life."

Honestly, don't let it get to you. There is a girl out there for you, the right girl and she will love you and want to be with you forever because of who you are, not because you served a mission.

A suggestion if I may (if you're still having problems with other RMs). When they ask where you served, instead of starting with "I didn't serve a mission..." try starting with "I was baptized when I was 25, so I didn't have the opportunity to serve a mission."

[RickJ]

Hi wingnut - that is exactly what I do and it leads in to a much more interesting conversation (to me anyway) of my conversion story; any chance for me to talk about me is a good thing (isn't it?).

[bert10]

And you are surprised that you are judged by other LDS? Do you not know that most who are gathered into this church are descendants of Israel...Do you imagine because we are in 2008 that the Sins of Israel of old are not with us today since we are their descendants?

We come from a long line of discriminators and judgers. So do not be surprise if you find many who are willing to judge you for what you not done instead of what you have done.

This knowledge is important...It will allow you to understand. And by understanding this people...you will be able to forgive them and move on. In many cases you will be able to predict their actions towards yourself.

To understand Israel in the old days is to understand the LDS today. What I am about to say is contrary to what one should feel. But if you learn to Enjoy these things as they are happening to you, you will grow spiritually. And you will know that GOD is allowing you to experience these things for your good. And also by the mere fact that you are writing about it...it shall open the eyes of many who are asleep. And perhaps they will not fall into the same trap that many have fallen into.

Peace be unto you

bert10

So I am 23, and was not able to serve a mission, because I have high functioning asperger's syndrome, and they wouldn't let me go.

I have the desire to date and get married. There's only one problem. Many LDS women do not date young men if they haven't gone a mission.

I'm having a hard time understanding why I continue to face discrimination in a Church that is the "Only True Church", after having been discriminated against growing up.

Right now, I plan on marrying somebody who is not a member of the Church, because, well, they wouldn't refuse to date me solely for not serving a mission.

From an indifferent standpoint, I find it sad that somebody who has had a very difficult time growing up with a condition they cannot control continues to face discrimination in what should be an unconditional loving Institution.

I do not mean to attack the Church in anyway. I am simply tired of feeling so out of place. This being the case, my faith in the Church has decreased greatly.

So I'm hoping that by posting here, some of you will be able to enlighten me on how I can approach things differently, acknowledge the errors of my thinking, and / or explain to me how I can possibly continue being a part of this Church and having asperger's syndrome.

So far, I have thought of nothing. The only solution I have come up with is remaining somewhat detached socially in the Church, while being a member, and dating non members.

[Fiannan]

You know, until polygamy comes back you only need to find one special woman who cares more about you and your spiritual qualities than the status of being able to say "I bagged a RM,".

This situation is akin to dropping out of college and setting up a business. In a short time the person becomes quite wealthy, starts dating a woman and then she finds out you don't have a college degree -- so she drops the man because she has been taught that having such a degree is a measure of one's success.

The point of that illustration? Simple, having served a mission may increase your chances of developing spiritually but it's not necessarily a good indication of how one will develop for the rest of one's life. And many men who never served missions for a variety of reasons now serve the Church in its highest callings. So there's the analogy, not being interested in a man because he doesn't have a collge degree, but still is successful, is akin to not being interested in a man who is spiritual but not a RM.

Now again, that being said we all discriminate in the dating process. I know one guy who vowed never to date anyone shorter than him because he didn't want his kids to be short like he was. Is that okay? Sure it is, we have the right to say we will only date people of (fill in the blank).

Like I said,

[Wingnut]

You know, until polygamy comes back...

Whatever.

[FunkyTown]

Whatever.

Hahah.

Frankly, Brick? All these people saying "It exists" or "It doesn't exist" - You only have two choices: Continue trying to date LDS girls or don't. If you do, it doesn't matter if you think some judge you because you're going to continue regardless. If you aren't, it doesn't matter because you aren't going to be dating them.

Either way, there's not much point in worrying about it.

[beefche]

You know, until polygamy comes back you only need to find one special woman who cares more about you and your spiritual qualities than the status of being able to say "I bagged a RM,".

Huh? Meaning that if polygamy is brought back, then after that one special woman who doesn't judge, all the other wives will be judgmental? Or do you mean that if polygamy comes back, then you don't need to find any special woman?

You lost me on that one, fiannan.

[Wingnut]

You lost me on that one, fiannan.

And everyone else, but I wouldn't worry about it.

[Fiannan]

Huh? Meaning that if polygamy is brought back, then after that one special woman who doesn't judge, all the other wives will be judgmental? Or do you mean that if polygamy comes back, then you don't need to find any special woman?

You lost me on that one, fiannan.

Strange, thought it was pretty simple to grasp.

The point is, it doesn't matter if you go into a singles ward and 80% (hypothetically speaking) of the females will only date an RM. You only need one out of the entire ward (heck, LDS universe) that will like you, connect to you, and marry you. I would hope there would be enough diversity that in a ward or stake you could find a few who will find you interesting and then only one that you want to get sealed to. There is no consensus in the LDS world in regards to issues like whether one needs to bag a RM -- I have known females who don't want to marry a RM.

[cjmaldrich]

I, too, didn't serve a mission. I've met so many guys who have not served missions and are more devout members than some who have.

Living in Utah now, it feels a bit weird telling people that I haven't served a mission... But really, what business is it of anyone else? We all have things in our past that aren't what others might think of as ideal. I found a great LDS girl who loves me and accepts me, even though I didn't serve a mission. Her dad didn't serve a mission and just got released as a bishop after 7 years.

There are decent girls out there, you just have to find the ones who are mature enough to realize that it's not a mission that makes a person a worthy priesthood holder and a good husband.

That said, have you considered a service mission? I know a few people who have had mental or physical limitations that prevented them from serving a proselyting mission, but who served successful and very fulfilling service missions in their stakes.

[beefche]

Strange, thought it was pretty simple to grasp.

The point is, it doesn't matter if you go into a singles ward and 80% (hypothetically speaking) of the females will only date an RM. You only need one out of the entire ward (heck, LDS universe) that will like you, connect to you, and marry you. I would hope there would be enough diversity that in a ward or stake you could find a few who will find you interesting and then only one that you want to get sealed to. There is no consensus in the LDS world in regards to issues like whether one needs to bag a RM -- I have known females who don't want to marry a RM.

Well, what you said here is simple to grasp. Now, please finish your thought. You mentioned polygamy before. So, if polygamy were reinstated, then what are you saying? That's the part where you lost me. How does living in a polygamous society differ in choosing a mate than in a monogamous society.

Take pity on a mammal with more stomachs than brains.