Inviting or Excluding

[lestertheemt]

Do we as members of the church do more inviting or more excluding? If we were on the outside of some of the discussions (whether here on the web or at our home wards) would we want to come in and partake?

Just Food For Thought

[the Ogre]

Do we as members of the church do more inviting or more excluding? If we were on the outside of some of the discussions (whether here on the web or at our home wards) would we want to come in and partake?

Okay, I am very biased (burned, scarred, or jaded might be better descriptions) in this area. In my opinion, it has to do with are you a Utah or California Latter-day Saint or LDS from anywhere else in the world.

I think UT/CA LDS do more excluding and the rest of the world is more inviting. There are exceptions, but I have not experienced many.

[lestertheemt]

I don't currently reside in Utah, but I have lived there. I do however, live in a small rural area that have extremely deep/long LDS roots. And sadly I have to say that at least here we do a lot more excluding.

[havejoy]

We have figured out, in my ward, that the more members we have, the more time off we'll have in between busy callings so we invite noobs to all of our activities. The best attended are the cooking group and the mothers and grandmothers play day in the park.

[the Ogre]

. . . The best attended are the cooking group and the mothers and grandmothers play day in the park.

Joy:

I want to be in your ward. You guys sound wonderful. I love both those groups. They need them in my ward.

[Moksha]

Here might be a difference: The other denominations have to rely on a walk-in business for new members. As such they put an emphasis on welcoming and inclusion. Also it might be easier for them by being just a religion, instead of a religion and a culture.

We on the other hand, have lots of missionaries.

[cjmaldrich]

I wouldn't say the church overall is "excluding" in the attitude of its members. I would definitely NOT accuse most of the members of being "including" either. Probably somewhere in the middle - and from my experience that's about normal for a church. Before I joined the LDS church, I went to about 5 other Christian churches. The only one where I was made to feel the slightest bit accepted and included was when I went with a friend who was a member there. When I went to the LDS church with a friend, it was probably right in the middle of very welcoming and completely ignoring me. Some people talked to me because I was there with my friend, others introduced themselves to me and just said hi to my friend... I felt accepted there.

The ward that I am a member of in Utah (sorry, Ogre) seems to be very welcoming and friendly. It's a university ward, so we're all in the same apartment complex and have a lot of activities in the courtyard and there is a huge emphasis on inviting our neighbors to church and the activities. The ward that I my wife and I went to right after we got married (it was the wrong ward, so we were only there for about two months) was one of those where we had to do all of the introducing ourselves - rather than people introducing themselves to us. When we got to the right ward (two blocks difference in boundaries, same building same town) it was like the total opposite.

There are a ton of factors to consider and with so many wards and branches in the world, I don't think it's fair to lump regions together (though I'm guilty of it) like "Utah is so unfriendly" and "Colorado has the best Mormons." But I'd bet money that if you looked at every ward/branch in the world and objectively rated their level of "inclusion" and "exclusion" you'd probably find that we're average with other churches or organizations with a lot of variance from ward to ward...

Just my uneducated opinion :)

[havejoy]

Joy:

I want to be in your ward. You guys sound wonderful. I love both those groups. They need them in my ward.

Talk to your RS presidency. They should get things started. They're great missionary tools.

[Guest dzd-n-cnfused]

i can honestly say that at times i have excluded.....and thats a lesson for me to learn. i try very hard to be honest with myself and with others.....but i still have periods in my life that i can recognise as going one way or the other. and sometimes i dont want another lesson.....blast....thats another lesson.....and on it goes. food for thought?........can i skip a meal?

[prospectmom]

I have seen it both ways... even some wards not so friendly to mew or new to the ward members. i have also seen wonderful friendly , caring wards so hmmmmmmmmm I think it is that way everywhere. Sometimes I have noticed converts are more friendly than lifers...

[spiritseeker]

That would make sense ... Converts know what it is like to be on the outside looking in. We know what it's like to walk in and not be welcomed in a way we feel appropriate. So, we make the effort to ease that anxiety on a newer member.

[Moksha]

That would make sense ... Converts know what it is like to be on the outside looking in. We know what it's like to walk in and not be welcomed in a way we feel appropriate. So, we make the effort to ease that anxiety on a newer member.

Sounds like a good reason for needing more converts!

[bytebear]

I don't know that Utah and California Mormons are excluding. I grew up in Utah, and we always had local non-member youth at all the tangential activities, dances, scouts, etc. We knew who all the kids in the neighborhood and they were always welcome to come, and everyone Mormon or not, loves a good church dance. I think the problem is, there are those who skirt away from the church when they don't want to convert, or they feel pressured to do so, but that's them excluding themselves. I remember one kid my age who didn't even live in our ward boundaries who went to all the youth stuff, and his mom had no intention of joining the church, and we knew it, and we all got along.

[the Ogre]

. . . there are those who skirt away from the church when they don't want to convert, or they feel pressured to do so, but that's them excluding themselves . . .

This is a big part of the myth, however, I have witnessed some people trying to exclude others (From the RS Pres. this Sunday: "Oh, the hispanic ward meets at 1, the bishop's a real nice guy." "I'm from Texas, I don't even speak Spanish." "Oh, but you'll probably be more comfortable there anyway" -- To me when I first met her: "Brother [the Ogre], don't you think you'll be happier in the single's ward?" -- She thinks she is being helpful, but what she is doing is trying, actively, to do is keep her ward as lily-pure as possible . . . real wonderful lady, no wonder I cussed her out a few weeks ago).

[prospectmom]

BUT Ogre please know it is the few tha act that way ........ when I was divorced and going to church I was taken aside by the Relief Society President and told " You can't have any of our husbands"........ this really floored me and was a part of my becoming inactive again... Do I blame the whole church no but at the time it relly hurt and I did not want to be where I thought people thought that of me...... The people sometimes suck but the church is pure.

[talisyn]

BUT Ogre please know it is the few tha act that way ........ when I was divorced and going to church I was taken aside by the Relief Society President and told " You can't have any of our husbands"........ this really floored me and was a part of my becoming inactive again... Do I blame the whole church no but at the time it relly hurt and I did not want to be where I thought people thought that of me...... The people sometimes suck but the church is pure.

Wow. Did you tell her your standards are much higher than hers obviously are?

[Hemidakota]

Okay, I am very biased (burned, scarred, or jaded might be better descriptions) in this area. In my opinion, it has to do with are you a Utah or California Latter-day Saint or LDS from anywhere else in the world.

I think UT/CA LDS do more excluding and the rest of the world is more inviting. There are exceptions, but I have not experienced many.

Not true....

[Misshalfway]

This is a toughy for me. I have experience in both Utah and California. Sometimes I do feel we exclude. Sometimes we exclude even amongst ourselves. But I don't know if this exclusion (I am assuming the OP means of non-members) is intentional.

With the mormon population being so high in some regions, this thing called mormon culture happens. We know what it is and what it means, but many outside of us don't and therefore may feel that they don't belong. I think sometimes non-members do feel excluded because lifestyle choices don't always groove and they don't feel they can let their hair down. Sometimes that is because we LDS sometimes (and I only mean sometimes) superimpose our values and our covenants onto others. Like my friends whose LDS neighbors told them they were bad for mowing their lawn on Sunday. Well, after hearing that I wanted to flick those members on the forehead because such reaction is out of line.

On the other hand, if an LDS fam was invited over for dinner and the non-LDS folks drank a glass of wine at dinner.....How many LDS people would groove with that? If you aren't raised around alcohol and the culture of it, it can be disturbing and one might act uncomfortably. OR the non-LDS bunch may feel judged. This isn't exclusionary behavior. IMO, it is just misunderstanding each other.

On the balance though, I think Utah mormons are awesome and do try very hard to extend friendship to all. But, it is difficult when some come to Utah with a chip on their shoulder or who become offended no matter what you do. I think in Utah the exclusionary behavior sometimes goes both ways.

[Maya]

I too think that there are all kinds of wards everywhere. But it is understndable. A ward becomes waht the people are and teach.

I remember how our ward was a few years a go. I have to say we have come a LOOOONG way from what it was. Today they say it is one of the most friendly wards in the country and I have no doubt about it.

Problem often is the clicks. If you can break them the ward will florish. Clicks are safe to one in them but excluding thowards everyone else.

I feel we are very friendly thowards all new investigators aso... sometimes I am afraid they may step back as it may get too overwhelming.

[bytebear]

I can imagine in a ward that is in an area that is mostly LDS, and conversions and new members are rare, you get a bit of the "old school" vs. the "new blood." but I never saw it so rampant as when I served my mission in New England. In some wards, the members were so protective of their ward, they didn't want new converts for fear the ward might one day split, and the poor Mormon family that moved there from Utah had a serious eye opener on the culture of the Northeast. Let's just say they were not friendly unless they knew you for more tha 10 years, and even then you were still the "new" family. It wasn't a church culture, just a regional one but it spilled into the wards. And it wasn't every ward, but it was common.

[Moksha]

I have thought that in predominately Mormon areas the problem arises from not seeing each other as special due to their being Mormon. Without that specialness, typical exclusions due to cliquishness, snobbery and having mean streaks can readily occur just like they would occur in the rest of society.

Has this ever been addressed in Conference?