At what point?

[Justice]

The Church teaches that we are only safe in following "The Prophet", even if we think he might be wrong, & still we will be blessed.

Yes, that's what I said too.

And also your comment about following THE prophet was right on too. We sustain the members of the 12 as prophets, seers, and revelators, not the Seventy. And, even still, only one person at a time can receive revelation for the Church.

I don't think this discussion about Seventy and Bishops was what Pam meant in her original post, but it's good discussion.

I still say, even after all this discussion, that if you follow the counsel of your Bishop you will be blessed, right or wrong. There is no promise through disobedience.

[pam]

My original post was mainly concerning the Prophet and the General Authorities.

[Snow]

In primary they learn a song called "Follow the Prophets"

Follow the prophet,

Follow the prophet; don’t go astray.

Follow the prophet, …

Follow the prophet; he knows the way.

We can get direction all along our way,

If we heed the prophets—follow what they say

Do we teach our children this but with a disclaimer?

No - I don't teach my children that. I teach them to follow the Savior.

I suppose I just get tired of reading how we should only use our own inspiration to guide our lives. I would agree with that to a point but let's not count out the wise words of our Prophets as well.

I've never heard anyone in the Church we should "ONLY" use our own inspiration. Have you?

"Follow the prophet" is a nice platitude for the kiddies but certainly not one that I live my life by. I don't ignore his counsels but each member is entitled to direct revelation, not filtered by an organization or 3rd party. I do what I d0 (that which is right) because it is the right thing to do, not because a prophet says it.

[Hemidakota]

I just posted the following on another site - in which for some reason all of the LDS members disagree with the church's stand on Prop 8, voted in favor of gay marriage etc. etc.... I was just given an infraction/temp kicked off the site for standing up for traditional families. O well.

Anyways, this is one thing I posted... thinking of the follow the prophet song.

end of post #12: The Storm Over the Mormons - Page 2 - Religious Education Forum

"U da woman!!!!"

[Hemidakota]

Dream? Where can we the dream?

Personal Beliefs » LDS Mormon Network

I do believe the Anti-Christ and I now know each other...

[Hemidakota]

And I agree that you should. But again we are talking about a rare case in the history of our modern prophets. Let me be totally honest here. I just had a problem with your "general friggin authority" comment. That was pretty derogatory in my opinion.

But I must admit I agree with a lot of other things that you said. Just not all of them.

How many of the Apostles were excommunicated in the church? Anyone?

[Hemidakota]

In case anyone hasn't noticed, I get waaaay to uppity about this topic. I apologize to everyone I've steamrollered over with my overburdening abrasive posting style.

If nobody has a problem with me teaching my kids to follow Christ, and earthly leaders to the extent that they follow Christ, then I've got a problem with nobody.

LM

You must been a Bishop one time or another...

[Hemidakota]

I realize the example I gave in my previous post may have been a bit extreme, but I'm just simply trying to find where the boundary lines are on when we're required to listen to our leaders and when we can just use our own judgement on deciding whether it's merely an opinion. I apologize if it may seem at times like I'm coming across a bit antagonistic because I'm honestly not like that when it comes to the church hierarchy, but it just seems like I'm reading/hearing as may different answers to this question as there are posters and I'm just trying to find a simple black and white answer. Too many answers causes too many confusions.

Do you remember the old counsel about a prophet will never lead you astray? If he did, the Lord will remove him? Do you believe this is a true statement?

[Carl62]

Do you remember the old counsel about a prophet will never lead you astray? If he did, the Lord will remove him? Do you believe this is a true statement?

Very much! First off, I think I need to make something clear and that is I support and sustain 1000% that the prophet and apostles are truly the Lord's mouthpiece here on earth and that what they say is directly given from God. No doubts or problems with that whatsoever. I've even come to nickname the writings of General Conferences as "the 5th standard work". However, where it starts getting dicey for me is when I'm being told that we have to treat the words and instructions of our local leaders the same as the prophets and that we are to follow their directions REGARDLESS. That's the part I'm still trying to wrap my head around. When it comes to our GA's, I don't think we could've chosen better leaders who are more truly inspired by God than they are. They sincerely follow the teachings of Christ, and thus God and Christ truly do lead them. They are men of wisdom and have yet to say anything that would EVER lead us away from our Heavenly Father. From what I've heard, they've only been leading us closer.:)

[Zeal]

A couple good articles on the subject....

LDS.org - New Era Article - It’s Your Choice

If we are to follow Christ, we must follow the prophet, the Lord’s mouthpiece on earth.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Teaching Our Children to Love the Prophets

In the future, a discernable distinction of the true followers of Christ will be the heed and attention they give to the living prophets and Apostles.

[pam]

No - I don't teach my children that. I teach them to follow the Savior.

I've never heard anyone in the Church we should "ONLY" use our own inspiration. Have you?

"Follow the prophet" is a nice platitude for the kiddies but certainly not one that I live my life by. I don't ignore his counsels but each member is entitled to direct revelation, not filtered by an organization or 3rd party. I do what I d0 (that which is right) because it is the right thing to do, not because a prophet says it.

Uhh yes actually I have and it's been said right here on this site.

[ruthiechan]

Uhh yes actually I have and it's been said right here on this site.

I have seen it frequently myself, both on this site and elsewhere, including real life.

[Saguaro]

If President Monson told me to jump off a cliff I would.

Seriously??? Do you really believe it would be God's will that you commit suicide? What if he asked you to kill your own child? What if he asked you to break the law of chastity? Where do you draw the line? If President Monson asked me to do any of those things I would tell him to take a hike.

[Justice]

How many of the Apostles were excommunicated in the church? Anyone?

I know of one for sure, and have impressions that there may have been others.

Thomas B. March, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, is the one I'm certain of.

[Moksha]

How many of the Apostles were excommunicated in the church? Anyone?

There were several at the time of the Smoot senate hearings.

[beefche]

I don't understand. If one believes in the Church as the true and living church, then I would assume that one also believes in a living, modern day prophet. So, if you don't follow the prophet unless he says something that meshes with your own feelings of right, then why have a prophet? Why not just rely simply on the Spirit? What's the purpose of having a prophet?

I just don't understand. When was the last time a prophet has asked someone to do something completely and utterly illegal, morally wrong, or simply not right? And I'm asking when did he do that as speaking as a prophet...not as he said to his daughter's best friend's brother's girlfriend's dad (meaning, no urban legends or "hear-say"). Do you (the general you, not personal you) believe that a prophet will lead us astray as a people? Do you think that the Lord would allow one man to cause a whole people to be led astray? Don't you think that the 1st presidency and/or the Quorum would rise up as a joint committee and Priesthood of the Lord to renounce any such man (be he prophet or apostle)?

Please help me understand the role of a prophet. Because I believe that he is the mouthpiece of the Lord. When he speaks as a prophet, he is speaking the Lord's words. That is what I believe. And I believe the Lord will not allow His prophet(s) to lead us astray--again, maybe one man may say/do something contrary, but not a whole quorum.

[pam]

Beefche if I could give you 10 thanks yous I would. I could just hug you.

Edited June 25, 2009 by pam

[Wingnut]

When was the last time a prophet has asked someone to do something completely and utterly illegal, morally wrong, or simply not right? And I'm asking when did he do that as speaking as a prophet...not as he said to his daughter's best friend's brother's girlfriend's dad (meaning, no urban legends or "hear-say").

The last (and only) time that I can think of that would meet any of these qualifications was the institution of polygamy. It was illegal because the Saints were living in the USA. However, once they moved to Utah (which was part of Mexico), it was no longer illegal. Many people would argue that it was morally wrong as well, but it was commanded by God, and given under specific circumstances. Polygamy was instituted by Joseph Smith, acting in the role of prophet, though it was not given to the Church in general at first, and not really at all. In the end, when it was done away with by Wilford Woodruff, part of the reason was because of legal ramifications.

[Snow]

LoudMouth,

If President Monson told me to jump off a cliff I would...not blindly, but because I know he's a prophet of God and he will not lead me astray or ask me to do something contrary to God's will. Its like Abraham being commanded to kill his son.

That's the kind of irrational, uninspired, fanatical, insane thinking that leads to things like the Jim Jones massacre/mass suicide, the Charles Manson Tate-Labianca murders and the Palestinian suicide terrorists.

[Snow]

Uhh yes actually I have and it's been said right here on this site.

I have seen it frequently myself, both on this site and elsewhere, including real life.

Seriously - you have heard "believing," "practicing" (and let's add in worthy) saints say that ONLY our inspiration is important. That the inspiration of those they believe to be ordained of God to lead them is unimportant?

Obviously there are non-believers that hold that point of view - but believers???

[Snow]

The last (and only) time that I can think of that would meet any of these qualifications was the institution of polygamy. It was illegal because the Saints were living in the USA. However, once they moved to Utah (which was part of Mexico), it was no longer illegal.

That's hardly a point worth making. The saints arrived in Utah on July 24, 1847 and Utah became a US Territory months later with the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago on Feb 2, 1948 (ratified by the Senate on March 10th).

[pam]

Yes Snow...why do you think I felt the urge to write this thread? It's because of that that I did. Of course I can't confirm nor judge their worthiness as they are only faceless names on a forum.

[Snow]

I don't understand. If one believes in the Church as the true and living church, then I would assume that one also believes in a living, modern day prophet. So, if you don't follow the prophet unless he says something that meshes with your own feelings of right, then why have a prophet? Why not just rely simply on the Spirit? What's the purpose of having a prophet?

I just don't understand. When was the last time a prophet has asked someone to do something completely and utterly illegal, morally wrong, or simply not right? And I'm asking when did he do that as speaking as a prophet...not as he said to his daughter's best friend's brother's girlfriend's dad (meaning, no urban legends or "hear-say"). Do you (the general you, not personal you) believe that a prophet will lead us astray as a people? Do you think that the Lord would allow one man to cause a whole people to be led astray? Don't you think that the 1st presidency and/or the Quorum would rise up as a joint committee and Priesthood of the Lord to renounce any such man (be he prophet or apostle)?

Please help me understand the role of a prophet. Because I believe that he is the mouthpiece of the Lord. When he speaks as a prophet, he is speaking the Lord's words. That is what I believe. And I believe the Lord will not allow His prophet(s) to lead us astray--again, maybe one man may say/do something contrary, but not a whole quorum.

Are you saying that the inspiration that the prophets says that he receives from God supersedes the inspiration that I receive directly from God?

Allow me to reacquaint you with James 1:5 (which we officially acknowledge to be the word of God:

"But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him."

I would never follow the prophet on a significant instruction if it did not mesh with my own feelings as I, as an official doctrinal point held by The Church of Jesus Christ, am entitled to know, directly from God, whether or not the prophet is giving me correct instruction or not. On some things I may simply choose to accept some instruction without bothering to check, but if upon checking, it didn't check out, of course I would reject it. Obviously. Anyone who didn't do likewise is not living in accordance with revealed principles of the Holy Ghost.

[Snow]

Yes Snow...why do you think I felt the urge to write this thread? It's because of that that I did. Of course I can't confirm nor judge their worthiness as they are only faceless names on a forum.

Frankly I don't believe it - or believe that someone who would say such a thing is a "believing" Mormon. You wouldn't be a "believing" Mormon and think that.

[pam]

That's exactly my point Snow.