Family problems - kinda touchy subject

[Brendan753]

Warning - this might be a little touchy for some folks:

I was raised in the LDS church and it was always something I cherished very much. I was always taught that pornography was wrong for many reasons, and I have never felt drawn to view it as others have. Unfortunately, this is something that is tearing my family apart, and there are a lot of elements that go into it. I feel lost and I need help.

I'm 23 now, when I was 15 is when I first found out that my father is heavily addicted to pornography. He always thought I was too dumb to notice that he was doing anything, but I always knew exactly what was going on. I found hundreds of sites on his computer's history. For the next four years that I stayed there, I was in constant fear because of what I saw on his computer, which was mostly teenage rape, incest, and other common taboo material. He would stay up to 2 and 3 in the morning every day just to look at it. He became very verbally and emotionally abusive with us and my mother. He was such a hateful and aggressive person because of it. I'm almost positive he started doing it because he can't legally do anything else - I honestly do think he's a pedophile. I was afraid he would come after me or my sister, the whole situation made me feel raped. It took so much out of me that when I finally called my father out on it and he lied and told me it wasn't true (he wiped his computer clean so I couldn't prove it anymore), I left and didn't talk to him for two years. I never told anyone in the church what was going on - I didn't want to ruin anything. My father was a very prominent figure in our ward and had a lot of respect. I didn't want to burst anyone's bubble.

When I started talking to my father again, I had already gotten married and had a son. We never mentioned the porn issue because he is still pretending he's not doing it. I wanted to believe that he had changed since I came back into his life - I also though he cared enough about his grandson to change. Come to find out yesterday that not only is he still looking at pornography, but he's stepped up from teenage incest/rape fantasies to daughter-in-law/women of color rape fantasies (my wife is African-American). I pretty much blew a gasket when I saw this stuff on his computer. I'm used to feeling objectified and raped, you know? I can (however painfully) deal with it. He cannot have my wife - I absolutely will not allow him to objectify her. He wasn't home at the time, but I told my mother what I found, and told her we wouldn't be coming back until he admitted what he was doing and got help. He later left me a voice message stating that those things were only on his computer because the bishop had asked him to develop some software program that would block porn sites, therefore he has to visit all the millions of porn sites out there to block them all. Later his story changed to "I'm just letting the pop-ups come up and then blocking them, those are the sites you saw". Even if this is somehow far-fetched but true, what I saw were not pop-up sites, they were the real deal. I'm still not dumb. I've called the bishop today to talk to him about what's going on. We have yet to schedule a meeting. I know my father is lying again to save himself. I can tell he's getting nervous because he called me demanding and apology and calling me a hypocrite, and and what's worse is my mother believes everything he says and is calling me a liar.

I guess I'm just worried that, since my father hasn't been caught yet (he still goes to the temple and holds the priesthood) that this is not as frowned upon by the church as I thought it was. I don't know what else to do. Should I contact the parents of the boy scouts that he presides over? I know I wouldn't be comfortable with someone like that being alone with my son. I don't know. It really is tearing our family to pieces and no one believes me.

[pam]

I'm surprised that since there are underage children involved and if he has been doing this for some time..that his internet provider has not reported it. At least in the state of Utah they are required by law to do so.

[ryanh]

I'm not so sure I'd agree with your statement that he 'holds' the priesthood. Not frowned upon? Assuredly they are, but if they have not fully come to light, then there is nothing you can do. But, you only called the Bishop today, right? He has to work to earn a living, and has lots on his plate, so please be patient in letting him get back to you.

You indicated you didn't save evidence the first time. What about this time?

The behaviors you describe are very typical. The defensiveness, the changing stories (that one about the Bishop is quite laughable!!! silly), the attacking the messenger (best defense is an offense), etc all indicate you are spot on. I interact with a number of people whose spouses have ADD. You would be surprised how much of the time when the husband has ADD there are severe porn addictions, and until the wife obtains irrefutable evidence from the computer, the stream of lies and attacks are never-ending.

Unfortunately, your father can't get help until he acknowledges the fact and quits trying to hide it. Wait and see what the Bishop says, and if not, take your concerns to the Stake President. Contacting each parent would be a mess to avoid IMO. You could get caught up in that in ways you don't want to be.

[Wingnut]

Pornography doesn't just hurt the person on film (or on the website or in the magazine)...it hurts the viewer. I would speak with your father's bishop (or stake president, if he is the bishop), and let him know what's going on. Your dad needs help, and you are in a position to get the help ball rolling.

[Misshalfway]

I am not so sure about going to his bishop as a first line of defense. I have a little experience here as the wife of an addict. If someone had gone around me, I can't explain the horror I would have felt. His humiliation is your mothers devastation and I promise you that dealing with this problem is better done in a controlled environment. Tread lightly for the sake of your mother. Anyway....if you go to his bishop how would you really prove it? It could blow up in your face.

The responsibility for telling the truth first and foremost belongs to your father. The next person who has the most influence is your mother. I think that maybe what your father needs is an intervention. I think you might need to get your mother out of her denial before that could happen. You will most certainly need her support if anything would be effective. Porn addicts need to have all the enabling stopped.....just the same as any other kind of addict -- especially ones like your father who have enjoyed years of unchallenged secrecy.

Have you considered obtaining proof and presenting it to your mother? I wouldn't doubt it if your mother knew, but was entrenched in too much denial and fear. Have you considered confronting your father with proof in the presence of your mother? Maybe you could give your mother a little computer education and teach her how to obtain the proof herself. Perhaps you could give her a book or two on the subject so that she has information and time to process it and prepare before the rug is pulled out from under the situation.

And now I just want to talk to you about you. I am sorry your father was involved in this. I know it must have been so traumatic and to know the secret and not be validated is an impossible burden for a child to carry. I am so so sorry!

Remember that you can't change your father. I know you are outraged. You should be. I know you want the lies and abuse to stop. I wouldn't want my father to get away with it either. But this problem is probably so deeply entrenched into the psyche and system of your parents marriage, that I would be cautious and prayerful about how to move forward. You may need to take some action. The spirit may be calling you to. But try to do so in wisdom. Perhaps talk to a PA therapist to get some educated strategies.

Best wishes. May the Savior heal all of you and your father too.

[ryanh]

I am not so sure about going to his bishop as a first line of defense. I have a little experience here as the wife of an addict. If someone had gone around me, I can't explain the horror I would have felt. His humiliation is your mothers devastation and I promise you that dealing with this problem is better done in a controlled environment.

I strongly disagree. Such codependent behavior serves no ones best interest. It does not serve the interest of templegoers who are in the temple at the same time as him, the boyscouts he works with, or even his wife who may be at risk of violent acts, or heaven forbid a serious STD. The mother/wife in this situation is already aware of the accusation, has had a chance to address it, and it is time to protect others even if she and the man in question won't acknowledge his problem.

While I can understand the empathy and concern for the wife, the situation is much bigger than her and any potentially maladaptive paradigms she might have to keep up appearances.

[MissKitty]

I just read your story and tho I can't offer any advice as such, I just feel very sorry for all involved.

[FairChild]

Don't leave your little one alone with him. You are the responsible one, don't chance that your child could be hurt by your father.

[Misshalfway]

I strongly disagree. Such codependent behavior serves no ones best interest. It does not serve the interest of templegoers who are in the temple at the same time as him, the boyscouts he works with, or even his wife who may be at risk of violent acts, or heaven forbid a serious STD. The mother/wife in this situation is already aware of the accusation, has had a chance to address it, and it is time to protect others even if she and the man in question won't acknowledge his problem.

While I can understand the empathy and concern for the wife, the situation is much bigger than her and any potentially maladaptive paradigms she might have to keep up appearances.

Codependent? That is an interesting take. I don't mind the disagreeing....you do have some valid points, but yeah....I don't think you are quite pickin up what I am laying down.

I read the OP again. And I think I missed the part about him being a pedophile. I think I thought it said that he was sure he wasn't. I think I could perhaps revise my remarks. Perhaps going to the bishop would be a good thing. But I would hope that the mother would be prepared before hand.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Misshalfway

[NeuroTypical]

He later left me a voice message stating that those things were only on his computer because the bishop had asked him to develop some software program that would block porn sites,

This is easy. Go ask that Bishop if he's telling the truth or not. Don't tell your dad you are going to do it, just go do it. If the bishop gives you the dumb look we all know he will, because of course your dad is lying through his teeth, then you can tell the bishop everything you've seen him do.

You can expect your dad to fight back in some way - attempting to manipulate himself a favorable outcome. Don't take it personally - he's sick. He is not healthy enough to be a father right now.

And yes, consider him a potential sexual predator.

LM

[dazed-and-confused]

Brendan, I have read lots of good feedback here given by concerned friends.........i want to ask about different feelings.............your feelings..........you said that you discovered this when you were 15......that is already an awkward age......i would imagine that, looking back, you can remember all kinds of thoughts and feelings going through your head.......and i wont mention any because i dont want to "lead the witness", so to speak.........but i believe that it would do you a lot of good to get some councilling about these feelings for yourself......it may even help repair your relationship with your father and/or help you approach this situation in a way that will be better for all parties involved.......clearly you have some anger.....and thats as far as i will offer my interpretation of your feelings........you want to help your father?.......and not simply humiliate him?........get some councilling for yourself on ways to be of help to him.

[talisyn]

Wow Brendan753, I'm sorry.I feel for you and your family. My family has a member who has this problem too. We found out because the computer would 'mysteriously' get computer viruses that for a while the pc expert in the family would fix because she believed they were accidental (the first 25 times)....until she said no more and kept talking about how totally insulting it is to be asked to fix the pc stds from the sites her husband looked at. At the beginning he would be all innocent and then defensive and then argumentative, but now he has come to accept that he has a problem and is trying to overcome it

Your mom must be on board with you in order for this to stop and your dad gets help. Until she is I don't see what you can do except keep the kids away. It may be that your mom will miss the grandkids enough to do something outside of her comfort zone. Pray and fast for her and your dad. Have you talked to your sister about this problem? May be she can share with your mom some things she's observed that will help.

[ryanh]

I don't think you are quite pickin up what I am laying down.

Wouldn't be the first time, probably not the last either. Sorry.

Codependent? That is an interesting take.

No! Not you! The mother/wife is acting codependent with her denial and enabling IMO. I see that I wasn't laying down in a way that would be picked up correctly. Sorry again

[skippy740]

Your job isn't to fix your parents. Your job is to protect your family. Your wife, your kids AND yourself. THEY are your primary responsibility, not your parents.

I think you feel bad because you "let your guard down" and brought your family into this situation. Now, you want to 'overfix' the problem and let him know that "he can't get away with this anymore".

The fact is that your father isn't HONORING his priesthood. One can commit sins and hide them and still "hold the priesthood". They just won't be USING the priesthood honorably. They won't be entering the temple WORTHILY.

I'm not sure that "tattling" to the Bishop will help anything. It may increase resentment between you and your father. Also, (and this is known to happen at times) that the Bishop may believe him over you - depending on the relationship. Just throwing it out there.

BTW, that was a really WEAK lie that your father told you (Bishop asked him to develop software, etc.). Obviously the porn is affecting his imagination to be creative to tell a more convincing lie.

[Misshalfway]

If this man is indeed a sexual predator, then these scouts do need to be protected. Maybe going to the bishop to try to get him released covertly might be of some value. I couldn't predict what this bishop might say.

Apparently this man is abusive. I wouldn't be surprised it he is very controlling. He will most certainly defend his secrets with what ever means he thinks he needs/or can get away with. I mean, what will he do when he leaves the bishops office? Go beat the crap out of his wife? Go verbally abuse her? What about this wife's safety? Does she have a place to go if she needs to get out? Has he been controlling her for years? Is her only safety being in denial? I wonder if her healthier defenses have been broken down over the years. I guess I would want answers to these questions before I could accurately comment.

If this son went to the bishop for counsel and asked for help in determining a proper solution or determining exactly what his responsibility would be, that is one thing. A good thing. But going in like gang busters.....I just don't know. Maybe gang busters is needed but I think the approach would be much more effective if all the players were on board with the confrontation and the plan for what to do when he resists. Mother, sister, bishop, son. All on the same powerful page.

Or......I don't know. Maybe this son needs to confront his father again and say that he must tell the bishop and his wife the truth..... OR he will tell the bishop himself and expose his secret to the extent of the family or maybe even report him to the police. Maybe he needs to do the same thing with the mother. Tell her that she needs to face/determine the truth or he will need to go to the bishop to at least protect the children. I mean, he could even contact the Boy Scouts of America and make a report.

I agree with Skippy, though. Changing these parents won't be easy. Inviting and putting down some boundaries is most certainly needed, but I am not sure what you can do with people who insist upon staying in their dysfunction. If the children in the ward are in danger, perhaps it is the OP's responsibility to at least make the bishop aware.

I am wondering if you have proof of child porn, then why not go to the police? Isn't this a legal issue as much as it is a spiritual one. The police will at least investigate. I wonder if they can investigate without this man knowing.

[applepansy]

My opinion: the bishop needs to know what you found regardless of his response. His calling in the ward is enough of a reason to tell the bishop. What is done after that isn't up to you. If the bishop doesn't act then whatever happens afterwards will be on his head. I would start by asking the bishop if he had asked your father to develop a blocking system. If the bishop says no, that's your opening. Go from there. Of course the bishop will say no... protecting church computers from porn is done at the church offices, not on a ward level.

If you have proof give it to the bishop and the police.

As for your mother, she already knows. She's afraid of the fall out. She's hiding her head in the sand hoping that it will go away before it gets worse. Unfortunately, that's not how life happens. Problems must be addressed to be fixed. Be gentle with her but also be firm and honest.

I agree with others who have said your first responsibility is to protect your wife/child and yourself. Keep your wife and child away from your father until this is resolved. He's going to get angrier. Stand firm and be valiant.

applepansy

[FlaviusHambonius]

I think that you did the right thing by going to the Bishop--especially since this has ben going on for years.

Your Dad is a very sick puppy who has been putting on a front for far too long. Sadly this is probably far too common within the church, as far as addiction to porn--just my speculation.

I would ask your Bishop to release your Dad from his Boy Scout calling immediately if not sooner-- or ask your Dad to request to be released--if not, then I would threaten going to the parents.

Your Dad been living a big lie for years now--frankly I don't know how your Dad could have been still active in church putting on the 'front' all of these years and especially attending the Temple with all of this on his conscience--actually I wonder if he has one--denial can be a powerful thing.

I think by you carrying out on this (Bishop) you will be doing your Dad a big service in the long run--temporally and spiritually-- by not doing anything, the cycle will continue.

Porn is bad enough to get addicted to-- but when he escalates his craving by delving into rapes, incest etc. it is definitley time to get some past due help.

I admire you for not punching him out when you found out he viewed the rapes involving women of color--daughter in law scenerio.

[ruthiechan]

Have you told your sister about what is going on? She needs to know, especially if she has children. Keep your children safe. You don't want him to start viewing grandpa/grandchild porn. . . Ick.

Your next course of action should include prayer.

Here are some articles on addiction that may be of use to you.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - When a Loved One Struggles with Addiction

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Hope, Healing, and Dealing with Addiction

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Addiction Recovery: Healing One Step at a Time

[Carl62]

While everybody on here keeps saying 'go to the bishop...', what may be an even bigger and arguably more important step is to seek out someone who is truly specialized in these sorts of things. Maybe have the whole family go together and see a sexual addictions therapist/counselor to help sort out where these problems stem from and how to counter them. There is also counseling groups for sex addicts and even family members of sex addicts that you could look into as well. I know it may make some people feel better in talking to their bishops and I don't mean this in any disrespect, but a LOT of bishops are simply not professionally trained in handling these types of situations. They can be their if you need to have an ear to listen to ya, but you still may walk out with the problem barely resolved, if even at all. IMHO, I would look into the therapist first for quicker and more direct results.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Carl62

[FlaviusHambonius]

While everybody on here keeps saying 'go to the bishop...', what may be an even bigger and arguably more important step is to seek out someone who is truly specialized in these sorts of things. Maybe have the whole family go together and see a sexual addictions therapist/counselor to help sort out where these problems stem from and how to counter them. There is also counseling groups for sex addicts and even family members of sex addicts that you could look into as well. I know it may make some people feel better in talking to their bishops and I don't mean this in any disrespect, but a LOT of bishops are simply not professionally trained in handling these types of situations. They can be their if you need to have an ear to listen to ya, but you still may walk out with the problem barely resolved, if even at all. IMHO, I would look into the therapist first for quicker and more direct results.

I think your right Carl--even though I said the Bishop.

I think the most important thing is Intervention--especially with one that is trained professionally in these areas. I would hope that even if he went to the Bishop first--that the Bishop would suggest some of the things you have.

The problem it seems--that the Father has no intention of doing either--so I think the son needs to give the Father the ultimatum of going to a Therapist/Counciling groups or else the Son needs to spill his guts to the Bishop--I'm sure eventually the Father will have to confront the Bishop about these things irregardless of the order, and I still think he needs to be removed as the Scoutmaster--pronto.

I don't necessarily like the idea of the 'Tattle Tale' approach either as someone mentioned earlier--but it just doesn't seem like the Father is going to take action and I think that somekind of intervention will likely keep the Dad out of the can--if the possibility of the Dad turning into a pedophile is there--then I think the Son is doing him a favor--even though I'm sure there will be some bad and hurtful feelings in the beginning.

There is definitley no easy approach to this problem--the embarassment of the Father would be overwhelming in a detailed confession to the Bishop.

But to continually trod under foot the Saviour with these behaviours is much more to worry about-- and have guilty feelings about--we are all guilty of sin in various ways and degrees--we all have our skeletons in the closet--at least I do.

[ladykemma2]

Sex Addicts Anonymous SAA for him

for you, family, friends, and spouses i recommend the program CoSA Codependents of sex addicts. saved my sanity when i was married to the sex addict. Like the Al-anon program partnered with alcoholics anonymous.

read patrick carnes books

Edited June 29, 2009 by ladykemma2

[Prodigal_Son]

I'll just reinforce what others have said. Protect all at risk: your wife, your kids, and those whom he has influence over in his ward. Talk to the Bishop and trust him to carry the torch from there.

And pray like crazy.

[BenRaines]

Not sure there is a lot of software development on the ward level to fight pornography. Is your dad a software programmer? Lots of experience with software programming? There is a whole load of software that has been created to block or report pornography.

Ben Raines

[Laureltree]

Brendan...Are you here in the state of utah ?

If so there is a program that can help your mom and dad a great deal, its called lifestar. Its a program that was created to help people over come there addictions to porn..its amazing. It also has a program for the spouses of the addict.

have your mom go here...

Sexual Addiction Recovery - LifeSTAR Network

I wish you and your family the best, and i'll keep you in our prayers.