Divorce, depression, and the P word

[Hemidakota]

Quick background:

I got married a few months off my mission and then my wife left me two years later. Since that time I've been a wreck. I've been active in the church, never missing a meeting and serving faithfully. I don't live in an area where there are many single adults so I oftentimes feel like the freak divorced guy that is just there but not really part of any group. It's quite depressing to have always been faithful in the church and all of the sudden not feel that you are accepted anymore.

Anyway, my ex-wife was unfaithful, which is the reason why she left. I've been completely destroyed since then. It's been two years and I still haven't gotten over it, the wounds feel as fresh as if it all went down yesterday.

In the last few months I've begun to question the existence of God. How could someone as faithful as me be completely screwed over like this? I know people that have lived sin filled lives, mocking the church, and were able to create successful marriages and repent later on. Why is it that the people being complete idiots with the gospel are able to get this blessing of happiness in marriage while I haven't? I did nothing wrong, my stake pres even had to take me aside to tell me to stop beating myself up because my ex had major issues and it would have happened eventually.

But in the last few months I started to look at pornography. I've noticed that I used it as a way to numb my horrible feelings about life. It hasn't been a daily occurrence. It would happen a few times one week and then not again for a week or two. What I noticed is that every time I felt angry at God or depressed I would turn to pornography to numb the feelings.

I've decided that it's time to stop that behavior. My question is this: Is that something I need to confess to the bishop? It didn't involve anyone else but myself. It's following the classic patterns of addiction, which scared me and caused me to look more seriously at my behavior. But if I don't need any addiction recovery help, is it still necessary to talk to the bishop about it? It was my understanding that with porn the reason you talked to your bishop was to get help, not necessarily to confess a serious sin.

Thanks for the help.

Yes....it is a sin as it requires support. The best part of this post, you already recognized the need for a greater change and return to the path which you once trodden.

[Hemidakota]

So where is the line drawn? What sins warrant a confession to an authority in the Church and which sins do not need any more confession other than in a prayer to Heavenly Father? Should you confess to your Bishop the impure thoughts you had? Should you confess cheating on a math test? I've found nothing so far that states that a confession to a Bishop is required for pornography. Some people feel the need to, and that's fine, I suppose. But should you go to your Bishop for one viewing? Or is there a set limit of how many times it can be viewed before you have to talk to him? You see what I'm saying?

The closest thing I've found was when Pres Hinkley urged priesthood holders to talk to their Bishops to free themselves from the chains of pornography. I don't think the word "chains" was unintentional. It implies addiction. I don't see anything in his words that implies that a confession to a Bishop is necessary for forgiveness, but it seems that he was implying that in order to overcome addiction it is imperative that you see your Bishop because he can direct you to the sources that will free you from the addiction.

Even President Monson said recently that if you are viewing pornography to "cease now" and "Seek the help you need to overcome and to change the direction of your life. Take the steps necessary to get back on the strait and narrow, and then stay there." Nobody has ever said that a Bishop confession is a necessary step for repentance, but is simply an outlet to seek help for an addiction.

If anyone has any sources where an authority in the Church has specifically said that the viewing of pornography requires a confession to the Bishop for full forgiveness, feel free to share.

Being a return Missionary, you tell me.

[deals_dog]

Sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Having your wife leave you in this circumstance must have been very difficult. Now you have to move on, this has not ruined your life unless you choose to let it. How one reacts to anything is optional. You can wallow in self piety till you drown in it and what good does that do you. Shake it off and move on brother. As for Pornography I have always found that to be a problem if I viewed it so I made up my mind that it was rather pointless and moved on. It is ugly degrading stuff that feeds upon the natural mans base desires and lusts, which are at best imposable to satisfy. Make up your mind as I did not to view such material and clean your mind. If you have an addition, seek help from your bishop. When you a free from this thing find a nice young woman and treat her like a lady with real respect and brotherly kindness

[Vort]

Dear brother,

You posted in the Advice section, so I'll give you some advice.

• Your trial with your ex-wife is an opportunity for you to become a true son of God. The prophet Peter taught:

  "For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps..."

  You were wronged. Endure it patiently, and that is acceptable with God.

• Pornography is a disturbing and soul-cankering evil. Talk to your bishop TODAY, if possible. Don't let pride stand in your way. Are you concerned about whether "the rules" say that you "have to" talk to the bishop? Or are you concerned about being in good standing with God? Because if you are viewing or have recently viewed pornography, you are not. Don't look for excuses not to go. Just go see him.

• Don't masturbate. That's not what sex is for. In fact, it's a misuse of sex. If you have not already stopped, you should probably talk to your bishop about this, too. In many cases, and especially with men, it's an addictive behavior that doesn't have much (if anything) to do with sex drive per se, but is a mechanism for stress relief and dealing with depression. The problem is that it doesn't actually do anything about the stressors in your life and does not heal depression.

Do the right thing. Quit worrying about whether you "have to", and just rid yourself of the chains that burden you. As you do the right thing to take control of your life, God will bless you. He won't take away your problems immediately, but he will make you strong enough to bear them cheerfully, until such a time as he delivers you from them.

[Carl62]

As long as you feel that confessing to your bishop about this is going to hopefully resolve this problem and make you feel better and closer to God, then by all means go ahead. If this is something that the end result you feel will be just a disciplinary council and make you feel even worse and more bitter to God, then I don't see either what the point is. Why do something that is going to take you into your abyss even further?

[avatar4321]

Ive never seen anyone face a disciplinary council for pornography.

However, the Bishop is there to help you. I would suggest if you dont feel like you can confess it, then you arent really repenting completely. Youre ashamed. Its typical with pornography. That's why humility is necessary.

I dont see what you lose by confessing. If you didnt need to confess, but you do, atleast you wont have the specter of "Should I have confessed?" hanging over your head. If you do, then you do. either way it should lead to peace of mind.

[Guest lukewarm]

I'm not really qualified to give advice but maybe you should consider this hypothetical scenario.

Would you rather confess now and work on conquering this sin, or would you rather wait until you are remarried for 10 years with 3 kids, and then it's too late?

[prospectmom]

I do not think we have to run to the bishop for every thing. I am not as opinionated about this one. The way I see it you realized the path your going on and stopped. That is what repentence is all about. Remember Jesus said " Go and sin no more " I think if the issue ever comes up again you would be wise to go to the Bishop but I think you are on the right track on your own as long as you continue to sin no more in this way.

[high5]

I have read all of the posts and I would encourage all who read this to give heed. I am married and struggle with same sex attraction. Years ago I also indulged in internet pornography and eventually had my wife find out by catching me on the internet. I was immediately forgiven by her and we went to counseling and work out a lot of pain but I was in so much pain because of shame. It was spiritual pain and was the worst feelings that I have ever had in my life. I felt that I did not deserve my wife and I could not look at her. I have nightmares and depression and did not have any recourse. I prayed and things eased a bit but I finally decided to tell my bishop. I told him and felt some relief and started to feel as though I was going to be able to put this behind me. The bishop called my wife in to talk to her alone and so I do not know what they talked about but I reflect back all of the time about my confession to my bishop and in hindsight began to put a few things together.

I am sorry for this long post but I have never told anyone this story or my feelings. Anyway my wife was very hurt by what I had done. She thought that I did not love her and she stated that I physically repulsed her. So I was getting mixed messages because she had been so comforting to me in my darkest hour. I began to realize that I was being selfish in the repentance process and I needed to find out what her needs were in getting through this. She basically felt that we needed to spend more together and go to the temple pray and I agreed but she gave me the direct idea that things like this are to be keep between us and that part of her getting past this was that I not dwell upon it or that we not discuss it anymore. It felt a bit like denial to me.

Anyway story is not over. My bishop in that interview/confessional asked me if there was anyone else that may have discussed this with and I said no. I know that it is something that is taboo in the church to talk about same sex attraction. However I have kept the secret all of my life so I knew why he asked me this. However I felt almost immediately that he had talked about this in his bishop's meeting because I noticed the ward giving me the cold shoulder. I was in that ward for 2 more years before we moved. I confronted the bishop asking if he had discussed it with anyone in the ward and he said that he did not think that he had.

Anyway as we moved into a new ward and I had been several years removed from these sins I began to feel happy and strong in the church for the first time in my life. My marriage was stronger that it has ever been and my SSA is waning. I feel in hindsight that confessing was a cleansing thing for me however there was an unintended consequence of this whole deal. I have started to feel alienated in this ward and I have a son who is just starting to start in scouts. Many of the dads have attended camp outs with their sons. I get comments like 'you are not going to go are you' from several people in the ward. One woman asked me at a church activity if I was a pedophile. I asked her what she was talking about and she said oh I knew someone once upon a time that reminded her of me and that he went to jail for molesting some kids.

I began to hear more and more things like this that concerned me but I thought nothing of it until my sister came into town and told me that there is a guy in her ward that the bishop had said could not be allowed around children. She said that the bishop had told them that he should not be around children. Then it seemed to me that somehow my confession had put me in with pedophiles. But how could my new ward know about my Same Sex Attraction. Then I remembered that confessional. The bishop pulled me out of my calling and asked me not to take the sacrament for a few weeks and said that I would not be able to teach in the primary.

I have this creeping feeling that there is a black mark next to my name in the records of the church. I also fear that this will travel with me where ever I go. When men view pornography that is heterosexual in nature do they get the same black mark by their name stating 'Can not work with kids'?

Anyway I have not asked anyone about this because it is embarrassing to me. Do not doubt me in my explanation of this situation because my kids have said that other kids in the ward have said that they are not allowed to play at our house. The list goes on and on.

Help

[Misshalfway]

I have read all of the posts and I would encourage all who read this to give heed. I am married and struggle with same sex attraction. Years ago I also indulged in internet pornography and eventually had my wife find out by catching me on the internet. I was immediately forgiven by her and we went to counseling and work out a lot of pain but I was in so much pain because of shame. It was spiritual pain and was the worst feelings that I have ever had in my life. I felt that I did not deserve my wife and I could not look at her. I have nightmares and depression and did not have any recourse. I prayed and things eased a bit but I finally decided to tell my bishop. I told him and felt some relief and started to feel as though I was going to be able to put this behind me. The bishop called my wife in to talk to her alone and so I do not know what they talked about but I reflect back all of the time about my confession to my bishop and in hindsight began to put a few things together.

I am sorry for this long post but I have never told anyone this story or my feelings. Anyway my wife was very hurt by what I had done. She thought that I did not love her and she stated that I physically repulsed her. So I was getting mixed messages because she had been so comforting to me in my darkest hour. I began to realize that I was being selfish in the repentance process and I needed to find out what her needs were in getting through this. She basically felt that we needed to spend more together and go to the temple pray and I agreed but she gave me the direct idea that things like this are to be keep between us and that part of her getting past this was that I not dwell upon it or that we not discuss it anymore. It felt a bit like denial to me.

Anyway story is not over. My bishop in that interview/confessional asked me if there was anyone else that may have discussed this with and I said no. I know that it is something that is taboo in the church to talk about same sex attraction. However I have kept the secret all of my life so I knew why he asked me this. However I felt almost immediately that he had talked about this in his bishop's meeting because I noticed the ward giving me the cold shoulder. I was in that ward for 2 more years before we moved. I confronted the bishop asking if he had discussed it with anyone in the ward and he said that he did not think that he had.

Anyway as we moved into a new ward and I had been several years removed from these sins I began to feel happy and strong in the church for the first time in my life. My marriage was stronger that it has ever been and my SSA is waning. I feel in hindsight that confessing was a cleansing thing for me however there was an unintended consequence of this whole deal. I have started to feel alienated in this ward and I have a son who is just starting to start in scouts. Many of the dads have attended camp outs with their sons. I get comments like 'you are not going to go are you' from several people in the ward. One woman asked me at a church activity if I was a pedophile. I asked her what she was talking about and she said oh I knew someone once upon a time that reminded her of me and that he went to jail for molesting some kids.

I began to hear more and more things like this that concerned me but I thought nothing of it until my sister came into town and told me that there is a guy in her ward that the bishop had said could not be allowed around children. She said that the bishop had told them that he should not be around children. Then it seemed to me that somehow my confession had put me in with pedophiles. But how could my new ward know about my Same Sex Attraction. Then I remembered that confessional. The bishop pulled me out of my calling and asked me not to take the sacrament for a few weeks and said that I would not be able to teach in the primary.

I have this creeping feeling that there is a black mark next to my name in the records of the church. I also fear that this will travel with me where ever I go. When men view pornography that is heterosexual in nature do they get the same black mark by their name stating 'Can not work with kids'?

Anyway I have not asked anyone about this because it is embarrassing to me. Do not doubt me in my explanation of this situation because my kids have said that other kids in the ward have said that they are not allowed to play at our house. The list goes on and on.

Help

Hello High Five.

OH! My heart goes out to you. I am sorry that you are experiencing this fall out. I don't think it is right. And I don't think that SSA has anything whatsoever to do with pedphelia.....although I could imagine a circumstance where the two may travel together.

I can't imagine the embarrassement you might feel, but for the sake of justice I think you need to go to this bishop and find out if he has had conversations with the old one and to see exactly what has been discussed in the new bishopric meeting. If anyone is overreacting out of fear, then this just isn't right! I would even perhaps involve the SP if you do see that something unjust has happened here. I mean there needs to be accountability for bishops as with the rest of us.

I think being kept from children has to do with the nature of the sinful behavior and the current state of the person in question. Where are they on there road to recovery and repentance? And if you are now finally feeling resolved about your past indiscretions and you have been restored to temple blessings, I would think that someone would owe you a serious explanation if some "black mark" were being passed wherever you go. If we believe in the power of the Atonement and that people can be changed and start anew, then this sort of thing shouldn't happen. ONLY if their is some evidence to suggest that children were being harmed in the first place such as child porn or some other such behavior.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Misshalfway

[high5]

Misshalfway,

thank you for your words. I think that it is not a big deal to have someone bar me from being around children if that gives them peace of mind. But people are proactive in their protection of their children and I have this feeling that I need to tell people my story in order to clear the air. I am in good standing in the church. My probation was that I not take the sacrament for 2 months and that I not speak in church or offer a prayer in church. My Temple Recommend was taken and I thought the comment that I would not be able to teach in primary was part of the conditions. I wish in hindsight that I could go back and ask many questions but the years have gone by and I do not think that I will get straight answers from this guy. Part of which might be that he will not remember the details of what happened on his end. All I really want to know is do I have a 'flagged' file (I have not asked my current bishop). I am pretty sure that there is some way that they flag a file of pedophiles to protect the wards and kids from their preditory behaviors. I am of the same mind as you are about this but truthfully I would gladly suffer in hell that have my kids affected by this. I wish sometimes I had not confessed my SSA.

[Misshalfway]

This just goes to show that there is still a lot of ignorance with regards to SSA. And if you were on what sounds like a very simple informal probation, that there should be no mark on your record whatsoever. SSA is NOT a sin. Only acting on it is. I see nothing here to prevent you from working or being with kids.

Would I keep my kids from their gay uncle? Heck no! They love him! Do I want him teaching them the birds and the bees.....well, prolly not. :) But he respects me as I respect him, so I don't worry at all.

[ryanh]

Would I keep my kids from their gay uncle? Heck no! They love him! Do I want him teaching them the birds and the bees.....well, prolly not. :) But he respects me as I respect him, so I don't worry at all.

Ditto! Never would try to limit exposure of my kids to their gay uncle. His SSA has nothing to do with attraction to children. Completely separate issues.

[ryanh]

Hi and welcome High5. I'm glad you shared your story.

I’m a little surprised that someone with familiarity with how records are or are not marked hasn’t commented. Perhaps those who know are not supposed to talk about it?

I personally believe there must be a way to mark records. 1) Policy is to not let a person that engaged in pedophilia (or perhaps even has the tendencies even if never acted upon) to serve in position w/ children unless cleared by the First Presidency. 2) The Church has been held legally accountable in a few circumstances where a person was called into a position, and that allowed them to perpetrate. The Church would not be able to legally defend itself from culpability if it only had a policy, but no method to enact it. Again, those are just my thoughts on the matter, not an actual understanding of the reasons records are marked.

I’m thinking that for some reason, your original Bishop you confessed to did mark your records as you being a person that could not work with children. Why else would he have said that you “would not be able to teach in the primary”? Again, if that was a condition imposed by an authorized ‘judge in Israel’, then how could it be appropriately enforced across all wards if it wasn’t marked on the records?

What makes me really uncomfortable is that is seems very apparent that any sort of restrictions on your service have been shared well beyond the scope of what is necessary. Who is it that has access to that information that has been sharing it in your ward? That’s unacceptable IMO. No person I have ever met would have the gall to ask someone point blank if they were a pedophile just because they looked like someone else. The instances and reactions you describe seem to be a gossiping ward out of control.

Alternative to the idea of being inaccurately marked as a pedophile, perhaps Church policy does restrict those with SSA from teaching in primary, and when this restriction is shared with others (which is an issue in it’s own right IMO) people are all too willing to be judgmental, come to erroneous conclusions as to why, and engage in sinful gossip.

I’m so sorry you and your children are being flogged for a sin that has been repented of and is in the past. That’s just not right.

[Charlyc]

Banquo,

is it still necessary to talk to the bishop about it? It was my understanding that with porn the reason you talked to your bishop was to get help, not necessarily to confess a serious sin.

True; unless you're looking for help for this addiction, don't say anything. But don't ask for a temple recommend until you overcome this problem.

The real problem though is with the divorce. Contrary to women, men who have divorced can't be Bishops, Stake presidents or counselors, patriarchs, CES directors or full time teachers or, for five years after the divorce, serve as temple workers. Once you realize this its like a kick in the guts. I've seen several men go inactive for a while once they understand this "church leadership policy". Oh, I say contrary to women because a divorced woman can marry and see her husband serve as Bishop or church president (as with HW Hunter) but a man, well the divorced are second class priesthood holders in the todays' church.

[ryanh]

men who have divorced can't be Bishops

Close, but I think not quite technically accurate. I was told by my Stake Pres that they can't serve "without the approval of the first presidency".

[Charlyc]

I have this creeping feeling that there is a black mark next to my name in the records of the church. I also fear that this will travel with me where ever I go. When men view pornography that is heterosexual in nature do they get the same black mark by their name stating 'Can not work with kids'?

Anyway I have not asked anyone about this because it is embarrassing to me. Do not doubt me in my explanation of this situation because my kids have said that other kids in the ward have said that they are not allowed to play at our house. The list goes on and on.

Help

Technically no; unless there's a disciplinary council held your records aren't marked that way. But what does happen is that the previous Bishop marks it to ask the new bishop to contact him, MLS has a simple way to do this, and then a report is given to the new bishop usually over the phone. Obviously if these reactions occured then the previous bishop told the new one that you are a 'problem' towards children etc, ie he grouped you with pedophiles when it was only a minor SSA issue.

The only way to escape this is to change wards, preferably stake too, without telling this bishop and then request the records quietly without telling the old ward at all so that the record isn't marked 'contact previous bishop'. Hopefully as new bishops come along this will disappear but it isn't easy to do in this day and age with all the attention given to child protection matters.

Some more info for you is available at https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

[Charlyc]

I was told by my Stake Pres that they can't serve "without the approval of the first presidency".

Politically correct answer. Fact is the first presidency calls all bishops worldwide but they have repeatedly told us that they wont approve formally divorced men anymore as bishops -anymore since about 2002 odd.

[beefche]

Banquo,

True; unless you're looking for help for this addiction, don't say anything. But don't ask for a temple recommend until you overcome this problem.

The real problem though is with the divorce. Contrary to women, men who have divorced can't be Bishops, Stake presidents or counselors, patriarchs, CES directors or full time teachers or, for five years after the divorce, serve as temple workers. Once you realize this its like a kick in the guts. I've seen several men go inactive for a while once they understand this "church leadership policy". Oh, I say contrary to women because a divorced woman can marry and see her husband serve as Bishop or church president (as with HW Hunter) but a man, well the divorced are second class priesthood holders in the todays' church.

I'm not sure of the accuracy of your report that divorced men can't serve in leadership positions. I know that there is some truth to that, but I think using absolutes is a dangerous idea.

Further, any man who wishes to become a bishop or stake president needs to check his ego at the door. We don't aspire to any positions and those positions are difficult and draining. Yes, we serve when asked but to think that one would lose their faith because they weren't called needs to check what they have faith in.

[Charlyc]

I'm not sure of the accuracy of your report that divorced men can't serve in leadership positions. I know that there is some truth to that, but I think using absolutes is a dangerous idea.

Further, any man who wishes to become a bishop or stake president needs to check his ego at the door. We don't aspire to any positions and those positions are difficult and draining. Yes, we serve when asked but to think that one would lose their faith because they weren't called needs to check what they have faith in.

Same argument could've been used against blacks and the priesthood ban in the 60's

most experienced stake presidencies members would know this but I see its not quite accepted by members as the last two comments show. the faith problems I think these men face is due to the situation more than an ego problem. They were told by their ex that they aren't wanted and after this the church tells them that they aren't good enough for those big callings precisely because their ex doesn't want them. A no win situation. At least the men I know about and have counseled over the years.

[Charlyc]

high5,

this training video may also help you: Updating Membership Records

[Guest missingsomething]

1) I would talk to the bishop

2) I would ask for counseling thru the church -everyone must grieve but after 2 years you need to start moving past it and you may need help to do this.

3) Remember one thing... no matter how righteously you lived - God will not impose his will on others so he cant make people do things or not do things... doesnt mean he isnt there and isnt watching out for you - regardless of what some people on these forums believe.... you need to pray to Him and talk to him and he will answer you.

4) If you need a friend...many are here to help..

5) oh yea... check out the 12 step program

and 6.... :) good luck friend.