Snow Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 At one point I considered the possibility that the Flood was a localized even blown out of proportion by Biblical writers, so I decided to examine the words about Noah in the Book of Mormon...The Lord Jesus Christ quoting Isaiah says:and in Ether we are informed...So, apparently, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself believed that the "waters of Noah" covered the whole earth.There is also research by those who do believe, that lend credibility to the story of a worldwide flood...Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide FloodYou must really believe that Randy Berg is a credible source. Why is that? What are his credentials?Do you have a peer reviewed academic journal or work by a respect scholar? Can you refer us to any mainstream institution of higher learning where such things are taught... instead of asking us to swallow the preposterous claims of some zagnut wacko who believes that dragons and dinosaurs lived in 200 AD and that the earth may only be some 1000s of years old?Seriously - I don't take my science from evangelical apologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Maybe the had a big meeting and put a moratorium on eating flesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 You must really believe that Randy Berg is a credible source. Why is that? What are his credentials?Do you have a peer reviewed academic journal or work by a respect scholar? Can you refer us to any mainstream institution of higher learning where such things are taught... instead of asking us to swallow the preposterous claims of some zagnut wacko who believes that dragons and dinosaurs lived in 200 AD and that the earth may only be some 1000s of years old?Seriously - I don't take my science from evangelical apologists.Nope, I'm a complete moron. Heck, I can barely comprehend to post I'm responding to. Here comes my sister Lulu, she's lookin' right pretty tonite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 It reminds me of Galileo. He had this wonderful devise – a telescope – that he looked into the night sky with and saw so many incredible things. He drew pictures, and wrote papers on what he saw through his telescope. Everyone read the papers, looked at his pictures, but funny thing, they refused to look through the telescope for themselves. They said it was from the devil, and would have no part in it. They disputed the papers, the pictures, came up with seemingly logical reasons why everything Galileo wrote was wrong etc. etc… and poor Galileo left wishing they would just look through the telescope to see the truth of it all.sincere prayer is the telescope.The problem with that analogy is that Galileo was basing his knowledge on observable and verifiable evidence, and turned out to be more enlightened than those that refused to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 MOE go to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 "Faith: the visual evidence of things not seen, the physical proof of things hope for." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 As far as the table - which Gen creation? There is the spiritual creation, and the temporal creation, for all things were created spiritually before they were on the face of the earth... the order that the spiritual creation happened in does not have much bearing on the order of temporal affairs...5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. ...(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 3:5)Which creation story? The Bible isn't very clear on which one would be the spiritual creation and which one temporal. The Temple version differs from the Biblical creation story as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Which creation story? The Bible isn't very clear on which one would be the spiritual creation and which one temporal. The Temple version differs from the Biblical creation story as well.Which writer spoke more on spiritual creation, MOSES or ABRAHAM? Both seen the same vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisyn Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Well, Yes.But, How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?Bro. RudickPolka or line dancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisyn Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 (Genesis 1:2)"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." (Genesis 1:11)"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." ((Genesis 1:16) "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also."Not all predators hibernate.. in fact.. most do not.Oh come now, if God wants the predators to sleep they sleep. mmm sleep....night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) In the scheme of things the flood is unimportant to my salvation, if someday it was proved or disproved totally would have no effect on my faith. Having said that: There is growing evidences that there was a Comet strike in the Indian Ocean around the time frame of the Flood, would have seemed like a worldwide deluge with the Tsunamies formed from that, there could have been waves hundreds of feet tall in the close areas and even on the other side of the world you still would have has waves 10's of feet tall, could have wiped out all coastal areas. I believe God uses natural events rather than supernatural events to make things happen. A large comet strike would fit in very well with Biblical accounts - and one thing to keep in mind, the Bible was written by men not by God. And those men didn't have access to "the Weather Channel" Edited August 13, 2009 by mnn727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) · Hidden Hidden I give up. You win. I am a horrible person.I don't think you're a horrible person. I think you need to take a good hard look at the methods you employ when discussing something.I just had no idea that me encouraging someone to seek answers straight from the Lord through prayer would be considered "belittling" them. A surrender, followed by another backhanded implication? You got a strange way of surrendering... Of course nobody here has done that. Godless was taking issue with you belittling people for believing differently. He was not taking issue with you for encouraging people to seek revelation. I'm taking issue with you for implying Just_A_Guy "argues himself out of believing anything", implying that disagreeing with a global flood = not putting faith in God, and implying that he is "Ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth."You're not a horrible person, you just need to do what Hemi said - cite your evidence and then leave it at that. Citing your evidence and then attacking people for not finding it as persuasive as you, and then claiming victim status, and then issuing forth another backhanded jab, isn't a good way to establish your point.LM(I suppose I was also taking issue with you for quoting a church leader when it suits you, and disagreeing with them when it doesn't, but that's another topic.) Edited August 13, 2009 by Loudmouth_Mormon Link to comment
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I don't think you're a horrible person. I think you need to take a good hard look at the methods you employ when discussing something.Of course nobody here has done that. Godless was taking issue with you belittling people for believing differently. He was not taking issue with you for encouraging people to seek revelation. I'm taking issue with you for implying Just_A_Guy "argues himself out of believing anything", implying that disagreeing with a global flood = not putting faith in God, and implying that he is "Ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth."You're not a horrible person, you just need to do what Hemi said - cite your evidence and then leave it at that. Citing your evidence and then attacking people for not finding it as persuasive as you, isn't a good way to establish your point.LM(I suppose I was also taking issue with you for quoting a church leader when it suits you, and disagreeing with them when it doesn't, but that's another topic.)I wasn't belittling anyone for believing different. The point of my statement is true and I was not directing it specifically at Just A Guy... if you try hard enough you can talk yourself out of believing anything... Am I wrong?As for quoting church leaders... I thought quoting LDS leaders to LDS people on the subject was appropriate, but I have learned differently. I will not make the mistake again.This is tiresome and why I try to avoid debates on evolution, etc...I regret being dragged down into this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 This is tiresome and why I try to avoid debates on evolution, etc...I regret being dragged down into this one. There is nothing wrong with discussing, especially since you started the discussion, but where you went wrong was not listening to others views, whether you agree or disagree. You may believe strongly about this, personally I could care less either way on the flood, does that mean I don't believe in God? No! Does that mean I don't believe "all scripture is useful for instruction"? No!If you didn't want to hear other points of view, why'd you start a thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 There is nothing wrong with discussing, especially since you started the discussion, but where you went wrong was not listening to others views, whether you agree or disagree. You may believe strongly about this, personally I could care less either way on the flood, does that mean I don't believe in God? No! Does that mean I don't believe "all scripture is useful for instruction"? No!If you didn't want to hear other points of view, why'd you start a thread? :surrenderwave::surrenderwave::surrenderwave::surrenderwave:I started the thread because bmy- and snow wouldn't shut up about me offering up why I believe as I do, so they could tear it down and ridicule it.Now leave me alone. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Now leave me alone. Seriously. Posting on a message board is not conducive to 'being left alone' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Posting on a message board is not conducive to 'being left alone' Drop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Drop it. Here's a thought for you -- stop reading this thread if it upsets you, you could even nicely request to the moderator that the thread be locked (although I see no reason for that as others appear to still be discussing it)-- but please don't try to tell other people what to do on a public message board -- thats very rude. Edited August 13, 2009 by mnn727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Believer_1829 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Here's a thought for you -- stop reading this thread if it upsets you, you could even nicely request to the moderator that the thread be locked (although I see no reason for that as others appear to still be discussing it)-- but please don't try to tell other people what to do on a public message board -- thats very rude.You can talk about the subject of the thread all you want, but continuing to berate me when I have asked you to stop is rude. What are you trying to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 In the scheme of things the flood is unimportant to my salvation, if someday it was proved or disproved totally would have no effect on my faith.Having said that:There is growing evidences that there was a Comet strike in the Indian Ocean around the time frame of the Flood, would have seemed like a worldwide deluge with the Tsunamies formed from that, there could have been waves hundreds of feet tall in the close areas and even on the other side of the world you still would have has waves 10's of feet tall, could have wiped out all coastal areas.I believe God uses natural events rather than supernatural events to make things happen. A large comet strike would fit in very well with Biblical accounts - and one thing to keep in mind, the Bible was written by men not by God. And those men didn't have access to "the Weather Channel" That would be cool but Genesis 1:12 says "For forty days and forty nights heavy rain poured down on the earth." (To be fair it does mention that water flowed forth from the 'great abyss' and that the floodgates of the sky were opened) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Perhaps now would be a good time to close this thread? Mods? Anyone? I know that I certainly need a time out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) That would be cool but Genesis 1:12 says "For forty days and forty nights heavy rain poured down on the earth." (To be fair it does mention that water flowed forth from the 'great abyss' and that the floodgates of the sky were opened)The institute manual for the O.T. states that "40 days" usually just means "a long time" and mathmatics was not a well known subject at that time. Also a Comet strike would vaporize tons of water which would rain down for a long time.(To be fair it does mention that water flowed forth from the 'great abyss' and that the floodgates of the sky were opened) Kinda fits a comet strike, doesn't it?I'm not saying you must believe in a comet strike, I just thought it interesting that science is coming to realize that something actually did happen at about the same time that many cultures have flood myths. Edited August 13, 2009 by mnn727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmy- Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 The institute manual for the O.T. states that "40 days" usually just means "a long time" and mathmatics was not a well known subject at that time. Also a Comet strike would vaporize tons of water which would rain down for a long time. Kinda fits a comet strike, doesn't it?I'm not saying you must believe in a comet strike, I just thought it interesting that science is coming to realize that something actually did happen at about the same time that many cultures have flood myths.Oh, it's cool. I do believe in localized flooding around that time.. as you said there are to many cultures with the same type of stories. I just do not believe in a flood that literally covered the entire world that killed everything except what was on the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 You can talk about the subject of the thread all you want, but continuing to berate me when I have asked you to stop is rude. What are you trying to prove?You know, if you stop responding, people will probably stop feeding the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thread closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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