LDS Faith Monotheistic?

[Dr T]

Hi Ram,

Athanasius of Alexandria had a lot to do with the discussion of the Trinity at the first council because of the Arians and their thoughts about Jesus and his Nature and the Fathers' nature. I've never read his thoughts on you quote. Say that he did say that quote. So what? That is not a biblical concept and is one that I reject. Thanks.

[lattelady]

Rameuptom, how did ancient people view eternity? as cyclical? what does that mean exactly? The dictionary defines it as "infinite duration." Can you reference some other views of eternity, as seen from others' perspectives, that would have a definition other than infinite duration or forever?

[Snow]

I haven't read all the posts yet, (I'm posting this after reading up to page 5) so not sure if anyone has pointed this out but actually lattelady did not infer that. She has said in Post #10 that we (mankind) were created to worship God. She is not the one who brought up what the point of God's existence is, that was Snow. There doesn't have to be a reason for God's existence, he is afterall our Creator. Who are we to need to a reason for God's existence?

Sorry Maureen,

That's untrue. She brought it up in post #3

[Snow]

Back from a quick vacation worshipping at the temple of the virgin... and what do I find?

Some 21 pages later and still Believer has failed, yet again, to post even a sliver of evidence for her claim that it is or was a widespread belief / teaching in the Church that God worships his god just as we worships ours.

Here's my recommendation:

1. Do not assert stuff you cannot support.

2. Do not try and deceive people.

3. Do not fabricate things.... you'll usually get caught.

[rameumptom]

Hi Ram,

Athanasius of Alexandria had a lot to do with the discussion of the Trinity at the first council because of the Arians and their thoughts about Jesus and his Nature and the Fathers' nature. I've never read his thoughts on you quote. Say that he did say that quote. So what? That is not a biblical concept and is one that I reject. Thanks.

Hi Doc,

And the Nicene Creed is not a biblical concept and is one that I reject, also.

Several of the early Christian Fathers believed this concept, including Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, Tertullian, etc. And they believed it to be biblical (Paul wrote on man being equal with God through Christ on several occasions, "heirs of God and joint-heirs of Christ." If we are "joint-heirs" with Christ, and Christ is God, what does that make us?

The Secret Book of Enoch has Enoch ascend through the levels of heaven to God's throne. There, he is dressed in white, given a new name (Metatron the Archangel), and sat upon God's throne as a symbol that he has God's power and authority. The concept of humans becoming gods through Christ and under God the Father is very prevalent in early Christianity and Judaism.

[rameumptom]

Rameuptom, how did ancient people view eternity? as cyclical? what does that mean exactly? The dictionary defines it as "infinite duration." Can you reference some other views of eternity, as seen from others' perspectives, that would have a definition other than infinite duration or forever?

Once again, you are reading a modern definition of the term. "eternity." I would suggest you consider the ancient phrase "from eternity to all eternity." That is a cyclical term. In the Book of Mormon, the term "eternal round" is used, which also describes the ancient view that all things, including God, works in cycles, periods of time called "eternity."

For a standard discussion on eternity, look here at: Eternity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is one view of the Eternal Cycle: Eternal return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Generally_Me]

Snow, at this point, what are you bringing to the conversation?

I don't have a source, but as I was raised in the church, not only did my parents teach me what Believer said, so did 2 different Sunday school teachers and a seminary teacher. So if it is a fabrication, it is widespread, and you have no right statin that Believer made it up himself.

[Hemidakota]

Or, let us put it in real propestive for some here: IF I DO NOT SEE IT, HEAR IT, OR EXPERIENCE IT FOR MYSELF, it is not true for all.

[Guest Believer_1829]

Back from a quick vacation worshipping at the temple of the virgin... and what do I find?

Some 21 pages later and still Believer has failed, yet again, to post even a sliver of evidence for her claim that it is or was a widespread belief / teaching in the Church that God worships his god just as we worships ours.

Here's my recommendation:

1. Do not assert stuff you cannot support.

2. Do not try and deceive people.

3. Do not fabricate things.... you'll usually get caught.

You are obsessed with me, it is flattering, but a little weird.

BTW, I am male, but I think you know that and are just trying to draw a reaction out of me.

I have you figured out, Snow, and won't play your games.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Believer_1829

[desirexnoel]

Back from a quick vacation worshipping at the temple of the virgin... and what do I find?

Some 21 pages later and still Believer has failed, yet again, to post even a sliver of evidence for her claim that it is or was a widespread belief / teaching in the Church that God worships his god just as we worships ours.

Here's my recommendation:

1. Do not assert stuff you cannot support.

2. Do not try and deceive people.

3. Do not fabricate things.... you'll usually get caught.

Believer hadn't really said anything that I hadn't learnt as a member of the church. I think that for some reason what you are learning and what a lot of us are taught are two completely different things...

[bmy-]

When we are little children.. the way we looks at our parents (specifically young males towards their fathers) seems to be something very close to worship. He's the coolest guy ever. He's so strong, smart, fast.. nobody could be better. You age a little bit.. and you begin to look at him more like a friend.

I do not see any reason it must be different with Heavenly Father. We 'worship' Him because.. well.. when compared to Him we have the mind of an infant for now. The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect.

[desirexnoel]

When we are little children.. the way we looks at our parents (specifically young males towards their fathers) seems to be something very close to worship. He's the coolest guy ever. He's so strong, smart, fast.. nobody could be better. You age a little bit.. and you begin to look at him more like a friend.

I do not see any reason it must be different with Heavenly Father. We 'worship' Him because.. well.. when compared to Him we have the mind of an infant for now. The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect.

I think I kind of understand what you are saying but I can't say I really relate.

[lattelady]

"The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect." I really disagree with that quote. I have a deep respect for many people, and I'm not using the word flippantly. I respect my 93-year-old grandfather--he is an amazing man of God and has more integrity than anyone I know. But I do not worship him. I respect him. I give him a place of honor. I don't worship him. I respect my parents. Not just because I'm commanded by God to, but because they are respectable. They are worthy of my respect! But I would never worship them. That place is reserved for God alone. Anything else is idolatry.

[bmy-]

I think I kind of understand what you are saying but I can't say I really relate.

Hmm. I can't think of any other way to say it. Which is not shocking.. my imagination is not the best It helps that I was a tiny little boy once I think

"The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect." I really disagree with that quote. I have a deep respect for many people, and I'm not using the word flippantly. I respect my 93-year-old grandfather--he is an amazing man of God and has more integrity than anyone I know. But I do not worship him. I respect him. I give him a place of honor. I don't worship him. I respect my parents. Not just because I'm commanded by God to, but because they are respectable. They are worthy of my respect! But I would never worship them. That place is reserved for God alone. Anything else is idolatry.

How do you define it? How does one 'worship' something else? The only thing I can think of is that you do things to please the person? That is included in respect for me. I've stated on here before that I cannot worship anything or anyone.. I do not know how. I only know how to respect.

Edited August 24, 2009 by bmy-

[bmy-]

"The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect." I really disagree with that quote. I have a deep respect for many people, and I'm not using the word flippantly. I respect my 93-year-old grandfather--he is an amazing man of God and has more integrity than anyone I know. But I do not worship him. I respect him. I give him a place of honor. I don't worship him. I respect my parents. Not just because I'm commanded by God to, but because they are respectable. They are worthy of my respect! But I would never worship them. That place is reserved for God alone. Anything else is idolatry.

How do you define it? How does one 'worship' something else? The only thing I can think of is that you do things to please the person? That is included in respect for me.

[desirexnoel]

Web definitions here. I hope they help!

WORSHIP

idolize: love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol; "Many teenagers idolized the Beatles"

show devotion to (a deity); "Many Hindus worship Shiva"

the activity of worshipping

attend religious services; "They worship in the traditional manner"

a feeling of profound love and admiration

RESPECT

(usually preceded by `in') a detail or point; "it differs in that respect"

esteem: the condition of being honored (esteemed or respected or well regarded); "it is held in esteem"; "a man who has earned high regard"

an attitude of admiration or esteem; "she lost all respect for him"

deference: a courteous expression (by word or deed) of esteem or regard; "his deference to her wishes was very flattering"; "be sure to give my respects to the dean"

obedience: behavior intended to please your parents; "their children were never very strong on obedience"; "he went to law school out of respect for his father's wishes"

regard highly; think much of; "I respect his judgement"; "We prize his creativity"

regard: a feeling of friendship and esteem; "she mistook his manly regard for love"; "he inspires respect"

show respect towards; "honor your parents!"

[pam]

Hmm. I can't think of any other way to say it. Which is not shocking.. my imagination is not the best It helps that I was a tiny little boy once I think

How do you define it? How does one 'worship' something else? The only thing I can think of is that you do things to please the person? That is included in respect for me. I've stated on here before that I cannot worship anything or anyone.. I do not know how. I only know how to respect.

Do you want us to worship you now too? Just teasing you. I know how you meant it. It just sounded funny when reading it.

[Snow]

You are obsessed with me, it is flattering, but a little weird.

BTW, I am male, but I think you know that and are just trying to draw a reaction out of me.

I have you figured out, Snow, and won't play your games.

I don't care if I get a reaction or not. I left on vacation knowing that you would effectively demonstrate while I was gone that you had invented the whole thing and I come back to see that I was correct.

Don't make stuff up.

[desirexnoel]

Can we not resort to bickering please and just talk about "LDS Faith Monotheistic" or at least just say things that we can benefit from?

I was actually learning things here.

[lattelady]

Snow, are you aware that there are others who agree with Believer's assertion? Why are you seemingly out to get him by focusing on that particular quote? (Thanks, Desirexnoel: I concur.)

[Guest Believer_1829]

I don't care if I get a reaction or not. I left on vacation knowing that you would effectively demonstrate while I was gone that you had invented the whole thing and I come back to see that I was correct.

Don't make stuff up.

You have failed to engage me in conversation as you know the end result of the conversation. People here know I am in correct in my statements about it being a widely held belief (at least previously), thus there is no rush to defend your position that I am lying and that I "made it all up."

Don't lie.

[Snow]

Believer hadn't really said anything that I hadn't learnt as a member of the church. I think that for some reason what you are learning and what a lot of us are taught are two completely different things...

Would you be so kind as to show that is true? It is a very simple thing to post something from Church lesson manual, a modern General Authority General Conference talk, a passage from a book by a BYU professor, a book by a General authority, something published by the Church, anything.

Simple as can be.

If the LDS Church teaches something, and you look fairly young so it must be recently, then there would be some evidence of it - that God worships HIs God like we worship Him, our God. Yes?

[desirexnoel]

Would you be so kind as to show that is true? It is a very simple thing to post something from Church lesson manual, a modern General Authority General Conference talk, a passage from a book by a BYU professor, a book by a General authority, something published by the Church, anything.

Simple as can be.

If the LDS Church teaches something, and you look fairly young so it must be recently, then there would be some evidence of it - that God worships HIs God like we worship Him, our God. Yes?

I am talking about in church. My particular chapel didn't record and publish all of their meetings. When I was in the church I was pretty much confined to the scriptures and New Era and what was said in church for my information because my dad was very strict as to where I got it. I wasn't allowed to search the web for it (but did anyway).

I knew people like you in High School. We called them "bullies" back then.

[Snow]

You have failed to engage me in conversation as you know the end result of the conversation. People here know I am in correct in my statements about it being a widely held belief (at least previously), thus there is no rush to defend your position that I am lying and that I "made it all up."

Don't lie.

This is a black, white issue. No guessing necessary. Widely held beliefs leave a trace. The Church doesn't believe something and then systematically hide all traces of it.

You can pretend and make excuses all you like, even imply that I am lying (which you could prove in a second if what you were saying were true)... but we both know that this thread has continued day after day after day you you have done nothing and will do nothing to back up your fabrication.

You made it up.... which you will once again demonstrate by failing to support your claim.

Prediction 11: CAN"T and WON"T.

[bmy-]

Do you want us to worship you now too? Just teasing you. I know how you meant it. It just sounded funny when reading it.

Perhaps that is why there are so many different interpretations of our scriptures.. typos