Beer Good. Meat Bad. But we do the opposite.

[pam]

While I don't know if there has been "revelation," numerous Prophets and other leaders of the Church since Joseph Smith's time have spoken or written on the subject:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Principle with a Promise

LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Not for the Body”

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Word of Wisdom: The Principle and the Promises

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Word of Wisdom

[Vort]

So why do we interpret and not follow the guideline as written?

Cydonia, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

We are not "required" to follow any of the commandments, in the sense of being constrained. We are allowed to choose for ourselves.

Do you want to be a member of the kingdom of God, in full fellowship with the Saints? Then follow the current teachings on the Word of Wisdom. Do you not care about such things? Then follow whatever blows your skirt up.

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

"Any form of alcohol is harmful to your body and spirit." -For the Strength of the Youth

if that's not revelation, I don't know what else you want.

[ryanh]

How is it you came to the conclusion "meat bad" as you included in the title of this thread Cydonia?

[havejoy]

Section 89 : 10-11

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man— 11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

So....is marijuana a wholesome herb?

[Cydonia]

So why do we interpret and not follow the guideline as written?

Cydonia, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.

I'm asking what I'm asking. All I see above are interpretations. But no actual revelations (as in, someone asked God and he said xyz) beyond what is in the D&C.

The D&C says beer is OK and that meat is to be eaten sparingly. We don't do that. That doesn't seem right.

If I want to go to the Celestial Kingdom, I want to do what God says. So I don't drink beer and I eat meat sparingly. Then I'm covered.

But having what seems like it might be hearsay float around as doctrine makes me nervous.

The D&C is as clear and easy to read now as it ever was. Eat meat sparingly is not a confusing or archaic statement. That beer is the only "commonly used" mild barley beverage seems pretty clear--just as hot drinks means coffee and tea.

But we add interpretation and hearsay on, and then make that doctrine. That's a spiritual dilemma for me. And believe me, I pray about it.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Cydonia

[Maureen]

"Any form of alcohol is harmful to your body and spirit."

Especially if you put it on your hands at least 3 times a day. Don't go near any heat source.

[Guest xforeverxmetalx]

I think if there was any wide misunderstanding, and we're actually allowed to drink beer, and meat shouldn't be consumed, the prophets would take notice and address it.

[pam]

I think if there was any wide misunderstanding, and we're actually allowed to drink beer, and meat shouldn't be consumed, the prophets would take notice and address it.

I think that is an excellent point. I'm sure Church leaders get the questions all the time about this. Yet at no point have I EVER heard one say..yes..beer is okay and you should never eat meat.

I've heard time and time again from Prophets on down that we should not drink alcoholic beverages including beer and meat should be eaten sparingly.

[Vort]

I'm asking what I'm asking. All I see above are interpretations. But no actual revelations (as in, someone asked God and he said xyz) beyond what is in the D&C.

D&C 21:4-5

"Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; for his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith."

Our prophets, those who lead the Church, have made it clear through countless sermons and through interview guidelines exactly what the minimum expectations are. The fact that those teachings have not been collected and included as a section in the Doctrine and Covenants is irrelevant. We have been given revelatory guidance through our prophets.

[talisyn]

Section 89 : 10-11

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man— 11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

So....is marijuana a wholesome herb?

Actually, it's been shown to help people with chronic uncontrolled pain. Cocaine is horrible, yet my little bottle of Anbesol (impacted wisdom tooth ) has benzocaine, a welcome relief when it works. Opium is bad, but morphine has great pain-relieving qualities. Everything on this planet has a purpose, it's up to us to not corrupt that purpose.

[Cydonia]

Why does everyone keep talking about "never eating meat." When did I mention that?

However, church functions in the summer here have offered three meat sandwiches and hot dogs. Clearly that's against what is written, but no one follows it. Why?

Everyone avoids beer, but the D&C says beer is OK. Sure prophets have mentioned it, but Hinckley had that mention of caffeine on Larry King, and the consensus seems to be that Hinckley's statement "wasn't revelation so soda is still OK."

Why is the Hinkley issue different than the beer issue? Why is meat routinely served in the summer for church events?

D&C 21:4-5

"...as he receiveth them...."

Meaning via revelation.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Cydonia

[mnn727]

but the D&C says beer is OK.

No it does not, learn what "mild drinks" means before you start making wild claims like that

[Cydonia]

No it does not, learn what "mild drinks" means before you start making wild claims like that

Yes it does. Read the whole thread.

[Wingnut]

Brigham Young is not the only one (or even the first one) to clarify what was meant by "hot drinks." Hyrum Smith and even Joseph Smith both taught that it referred to coffee and tea.

To quote D&C 89:5, That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him. I don't think it can be reasonably argued that beer isn't a "strong drink" likely to be classified with wine.

It is my opinion that when Heber J. Grant made complete abstention from alcohol in any form a requirement for a temple recommend in the early 1920s, that that counts as revelation. I highly doubt he did it on a whim.

If you are just arguing for the sake of argument, that's one thing. If you are truly trying to find a loophole and rationalize your way out of obeying the Word of Wisdom, allow me to share one of my favorite quotes with you: Justification is the grease on the slidepole to hell.

[Vort]

No it does not, learn what "mild drinks" means before you start making wild claims like that

Yes it does. Read the whole thread.

???

Are you saying that scriptural truth is established by the arguments contained in this thread?

[Wingnut]

Regarding meat, consider the time period in which the Word of Wisdom was original revealed.

• No refrigeration
• Hunting one's own meals, regardless of weather
• No shipping industry to move product from one area to another

Considering those things, it makes sense. We live in a different world today. We have the opportunity to consume meat year round.

Why don't we adhere more strictly to the "sparingly" clause? I think perhaps that it's because it's never been emphasized. If you have a problem with that, I suppose the people to take it up with are the dead prophets of this dispensation. Coffee, tea, alcohol, and tobacco have all been specified as "forbidden" fruits, the abstention from which is a requirement to hold a leadership calling or enter the temple. Spare consumption of meat isn't.

[mnn727]

If you want to drink beer, then go ahead, just be aware of the consequences as it IS against the WoW no matter what your wild claims are.

[Moksha]

The designation of mild drink was to distinguish beer from hard liquor. Never-the-less, barley has its naughty side when it has been hanging around with those Hops kids instead of the Campbell Soup kids, fermenting all kinds of trouble. Woest unto thee thy mild drinks, when it maketh me tumble over into green pastures.

[Generally_Me]

Arguing semantics: what is the meaning of the word "sparingly"? Once a year, once a month, once a day? Depending on your culture/family, it could be one serving per meal.

Personally I'd be more worried about the fat content of hot dogs than the meat part. But, to my knowledge, the WoW doesn't say "Thou shall not stuff thy face with fat and sugar, but with the healthful foods that I have put on earth for thine use".

I think barley tea was pretty common back then wasn't it? Nasty stuff, but then I was fed sugar as a kid.

[hordak]

Regarding meat, consider the time period in which the Word of Wisdom was original revealed.

• No refrigeration
• Hunting one's own meals, regardless of weather
• No shipping industry to move product from one area to another

Considering those things, it makes sense. We live in a different world today. We have the opportunity to consume meat year round.

Why don't we adhere more strictly to the "sparingly" clause? I think perhaps that it's because it's never been emphasized. If you have a problem with that, I suppose the people to take it up with are the dead prophets of this dispensation. Coffee, tea, alcohol, and tobacco have all been specified as "forbidden" fruits, the abstention from which is a requirement to hold a leadership calling or enter the temple. Spare consumption of meat isn't.

"Justification is the grease on the slidepole to hell.":)

I think the WoW is one of those "because God said so" things. Like Jews not cutting their sideburns and Muslims not eating pork.

Edited November 4, 2009 by hordak

[Moksha]

Then follow whatever blows your skirt up.

I would rather follow Marilyn. Vort, would you hurry up

with that time travel device already.

[Cydonia]

If you are just arguing for the sake of argument, that's one thing. If you are truly trying to find a loophole and rationalize your way out of obeying the Word of Wisdom, allow me to share one of my favorite quotes with you: Justification is the grease on the slidepole to hell.

It doesn't seem like I'm trying to justify anything, because I don't drink beer and I do eat meat sparingly.

What I am trying to reconcile is that what the D&C says does not follow with what we practice. Nor does there seem to be any other clear cut statement from God saying that we should do something other than what is in D&C 89.

PS. We don't believe in hell.

[Vort]

I would rather follow Marilyn. Vort, would you hurry up

with that time travel device already.

With Netflix, it's as near as your mail slot, my friend. Just add "Seven-Year Itch".

[mnn727]

I think the WoW is one of those "because God said so" things. .

You are exactly right, it took me a number of years to figure that out, but the fact is, I made a Covenant with God to follow it - period, end of story.