When is service simply free labor?

[Guest mormonmusic]

I reflected on this question a while ago, as I was petitioned to arrange some rather inconvenient and labor intensive, last minute service for someone. We tread a fine line sometimes. On one hand, we have a commitment to serve others, but on the other hand, people sometimes expect us to do things that seem more like we're simply working for free.....can you articulate when service stops being service and becomes free labor?

Edited December 8, 2009 by mormonmusic

[AELK]

The definition is in the eye (hands) of the person doing the labor. How that person feels about it, defines what it is.

[mightynancy]

When you've known for over a year that you'll be moving, the new job is landed, you brag about how much more money your husband will be making, you leave and ask the Relief Society to clean the house you've sold and left filthy.

I was never so happy to have a soccer game to get to. That place nearly wrecked my Dyson.

Really, it becomes free labor when you're doing something that a person can do themselves. I don't mean that people need to be physically disabled to merit service...sometimes it's more important that the person have time to focus on his loved ones or some other pressing need. If we can fill in the gaps so they can attend to more important things, I'm all over it. To each according to his needs.

[Kawazu]

To what extent do you feel you should serve?

[mightynancy]

The definition is in the eye (hands) of the person doing the labor. How that person feels about it, defines what it is.

So if I can muster up a "Bless her heart", it'll be okay?

Serving can cross into enabling...and then it's no longer service. If I lovingly cripple someone by never facilitating self-reliance, that's not service, no matter how reverent I am about it.

[Maxgreen1]

Well service is really free labor. You could always be paid for it; You just choose not to. That is what makes it service.

For example, there is always a service opportunity by serving spaghetti at the local American Legion spaghetti dinners. That is the type of labor people usually pay for, but choose to serve instead.

I believe that service is a great opportunity to occupy free time, and an even greater opportunity to care for your neighbor, and I do agree with Nancy when I state that service is not a commodity to be squandered at short request, and little appreciation.

People should feel thankful to serve, thankful to be served, and should try their best to do as much as they can.

-Max

[Traveler]

I reflected on this question a while ago, as I was petitioned to arrange some rather inconvenient and labor intensive, last minute service for someone. We tread a fine line sometimes. On one hand, we have a commitment to serve others, but on the other hand, people sometimes expect us to do things that seem more like we're simply working for free.....can you articulate when service stops being service and becomes free labor?

It is no longer free service when the government passes laws to require it or the cash equivalent.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

...can you articulate when service stops being service and becomes free labor?

I was thinking of this one day when contemplating a couple I knew, leaving their homes for one year, to work on a really big cattle ranch down in Florida. Don't really know the answer to that one, but when it comes to helping the neighbors, I would classify this service as lending a helping hand.

[deseretgov]

Ha ha ha. This remainds me of the first area in my mission. One of the counselors in the branch presidency always had a service project for us to do every week. We went to the hospital, or should I say "hospital," and cleaned up the grounds. We did some good work there. I didn't realize what was going on until I found out that the councelor was the hospital's grounds keeper.

If you didn't get it we were doing his job for him.

[hordak]

I was never so happy to have a soccer game to get to. That place nearly wrecked my Dyson.

You should have known what you were getting into when you bought a $400 vacuum cleaner.

It's like owning a pick up and being surprised when asked to haul stuff;):)

[Guest mormonmusic]

Ha ha ha. This remainds me of the first area in my mission. One of the counselors in the branch presidency always had a service project for us to do every week. We went to the hospital, or should I say "hospital," and cleaned up the grounds. We did some good work there. I didn't realize what was going on until I found out that the councelor was the hospital's grounds keeper.

If you didn't get it we were doing his job for him.

Now THAT'S definitely free labor.

I think it's free labor when you end up doing things for people they can do for themselves, repetitively, as someone said above. Or, if your service is essential for them to maintain a certain lifestyle they couldn't otherwise afford. We had an elderly couple that maintained a large home but expected their home teachers to do everything outside, like the weed-whacking, the pressure washing, clearing off the roof etcetera. They would wear out their home teachings regularly.

Service in the Church is to meet short-term needs, in my view, and it's episodic. If you end up doing it every single week, then you have to look hard at whether there's a better solution to the problem than service.

For me, whether I will do service for someone who can do the job themself also depends on whether they've contributed to the Ward. Or if they've been there when I've asked for help in my callings or other endeavors in the past, I'm more willing. If they've constantly rejected us, threatened to call the police when we come to the door, etcetera, I'm not as excited about it.

I'll also do it if I feel the person needs to feel loved and accepted by the Ward, as an activation measure -- not that I EXPECT them to get active as a result of service, but if I think it will help -- so be it.

Another reason -- the person is suffering and you want to show you can care. Our son was diagnosed with a nasty disease a while ago, and several of our friends helped us the day we came home from the hospital to a new and harder life -- they cleaned our house before we got home, and had dinner prepared.

We could've done all those things ourselves, but I think they did it to show they were concerned about what happened to us. They couldn't take the disease away, but they could at least show compassion and love for our situation through service.

Another reason I'll help people who could do the job themself is if I'm having trouble forgiving them. Earlier in my life, it seemed to work very well. It smooths over the relationship and helps heal the heart.

And of course, service for its own sake....the heart tells you when it's time for that.

[mnn727]

You should have known what you were getting into when you bought a $400 vacuum cleaner.

It's like owning a pick up and being surprised when asked to haul stuff;):)

wow - we own a pickup and a Dyson, but then this is Texas, over half the Ward has a pickup.

[john doe]

'Service' becomes 'free labor' when either party views it as such.

[NeuroTypical]

Giving service can bring blessings, if the heart of the giver is in the right place.

Receiving service can bring blessings, if the heart of the receiver is in the right place.

We tend to stand in our roles as one or the other, and want to pass judgement on the other side. "They should do more for themselves!" "They should appreciate us more!" "They should understand my troubles more!" "They should help more!" Normally, I'd say all that's a waste of time, but the stories people tell are so entertaining, I just love to hear them.

Like the one young couple I helped move, where the overcontrolling wife had obviously lost the argument about hiring professional movers. She was just certain that we trained EQ monkeys were going to bust all her nice furniture to pieces. It got so bad that she was even telling us how to lift stuff into the van - including instructions on how bent our knees should be, and who should lift first.

Or the other guy in his mid-30's who was getting kicked out of his parent's basement. He had known for a month, and asked for our help the night before. When we showed up, he hadn't even started packing. He didn't even have any boxes or moving supplies. So we basically went and bought boxes, and then shoveled armloads of his torn and wrinkled comic books and dirty laundry into them, while he sat on the couch and watched TV. When we packed the TV, he sat on the couch and glared at us. We basically just tipped the couch up to spill him off of it, so we could load it. We asked his mom if he had some sort of special needs or mental issue or something, she said "no, he's just pouting". When we arrived at his new apartment, he didn't have the key, so we dumped all his crap into the front yard and went home.

LM

[Guest mormonmusic]

Loudmouth:

I had one sort of like yours, but not as bad.

We helped a lady in our Ward move into her new house, which was also in the Ward.

Given the quorum leadership policy that we wouldn't arrange moves within or out of the Ward, our role was limited to making announcements to raise volunteers. However, knowing how sensitive this woman was to people, the home teacher took it upon himself to arrange the truck, get extra volunteers, etcetera.

I volunteered to help with the move, and after about 4 hours we were done -- moving her out of the old place and into the new.

Then, at the end, she says "Can you move my father in too?". I left this up to the home teacher to put this to the brethren at the move. They agreed to do it, so we drove across town, took major furniture and large boxes from the apartment (fortunately, all small items had been boxed and moved), and then moved all of it back to the new house. The father wasn't a member of the Church either.

So, it shot big portion of the day.....and yes, I helped with the unexpected father move too....

I'm sure others have worse stories than this, but yours Loudmouth Mormon, takes the cake!!!

Edited December 8, 2009 by mormonmusic

[Saguaro]

Given the quorum leadership policy that we wouldn't arrange moves within or out of the Ward.....

Correct me if I am misunderstanding here, but are you saying that quorum leaders refuse to help people move from one place to another within your ward, or help people moving out of the ward? What could possibly be the justification for such a policy? If people need help the quorum should be there to help them. I just don't get it.

Regarding the original question, is service just free labor, I've helped with some eagle scout projects that sure seemed that way. Once we moved rocks and raked debris along a dry riverbed that nobody would want to visit. I have no problem helping PEOPLE, like helping them move, caring for the elderly and sick, tutoring, etc., but rocks and dirt, no thank you (unless there was some direct impact to people, like a park or something).

[Guest mormonmusic]

Correct me if I am misunderstanding here, but are you saying that quorum leaders refuse to help people move from one place to another within your ward, or help people moving out of the ward? What could possibly be the justification for such a policy? If people need help the quorum should be there to help them. I just don't get it.

No -- this isn't what we were saying. We were saying that if the person was moving out of, or within the Ward, our role as leaders was to make announcements at Church that help was needed. Therefore, we weren't refusing to help.

However, as leaders, we wouldn't hop on the phone to shake up more volunteers if insuffficient volunteers responded to the announcement. We wouldn't find trucks for them either. And they had to give us enough notice for us to make announcements in Church. If there wasn't enough notice, they would have to start making their own phone calls.

We would volunteer perseonally to help with moves (and I often did) and would also forward the names of volunteers to the person moving. The membership at large was encouraged to serve and help as the Spirit moved them.

Also, we left ourselves open for exceptions. For example, we had an elderly lady who was self-sufficient, lived alone. But she was 92 and wasn't capable of raising volunteers herself. Even though she was moving out of the Ward, we did a full service move for her where we did everything -- from finding a truck to raising volunteers, and help with packing. She wasn't capable of doing this herself, and needed the help, so we did it on an exception basis.

As I said, hometeachers starting stepping up to help their own home teaching families when they found out the leadership wasn't going to be a moving service anymore, and some continued the full-service legacy, but as a leadership, all we did was make announcements in Church and deal with exceptions.

[mightynancy]

You should have known what you were getting into when you bought a $400 vacuum cleaner.

It's like owning a pick up and being surprised when asked to haul stuff;):)

hordak! This is why I drive a Corolla! I haul neither cargo nor many people...though coming home from girls' camp we were packed in there tight!

And I didn't actually buy a $400 vacuum. It was a present.

[mrmarklin]

I reflected on this question a while ago, as I was petitioned to arrange some rather inconvenient and labor intensive, last minute service for someone. We tread a fine line sometimes. On one hand, we have a commitment to serve others, but on the other hand, people sometimes expect us to do things that seem more like we're simply working for free.....can you articulate when service stops being service and becomes free labor?

It can be a tough question. I quit doing "moves" when the person we were moving didn't even have their stuff packed in boxes or anything. They made no effort in preparation.

Come to think about it, I have never asked anyone in the church to help me move, unless they were a personal friend. Last time I moved, I paid a mover.

I have helped friends in the church move since the incident above, but have given up on everyone else.

Frankly for me its service if I can see some effort on the part of the recipient, they can't really do anything more themselves and can't afford to pay hired help due to poverty.

[BenRaines]

I have moved over 15 times in 34 years of marriage. Not once have I asked church members to help me move. I have had a friend or two help me but other than that I do it myself or have used movers.

My pet peeve was the time they announced in Elder's Quorum that they wanted a bunch of people to go over and help the guy who had just bought a new home, brand new home, to go and help him pour a new concrete patio for his new house. This was a move up for him to buy the house and this was a way to increase the value of his home buy having a new patio put in. I didn't go. I would much rather go to a move than help someone increase the value of their home by building a nice new patio.

Ben Raines

[RanMan]

I reflected on this question a while ago, as I was petitioned to arrange some rather inconvenient and labor intensive, last minute service for someone. We tread a fine line sometimes. On one hand, we have a commitment to serve others, but on the other hand, people sometimes expect us to do things that seem more like we're simply working for free.....can you articulate when service stops being service and becomes free labor?

I would say that happens when you feel that it does. If your heart is not in it, I think you should not proceed forward with it. Unless the situation really dictates that there is a great need there, I think a negative feeling about it negates any good it does for the person giving service.

:)

[Elgama]

service is merely free labour when the person giving it is doing it out of duty instead of love and charity, it has nothing to do with the person receiving imo