What is a Choice?

[Traveler]

The concepts expressed in the thread titled G-d’s Omnipotence have got me thinking.

Let me ask a question: If we consider a thing the best we can and then decide to take specific action – Is that a choice? Have we exercised a choice? What then are we doing if we change our mind? Did we actually and realistically exercise our “choice” the first time or the second? What I am asking is – have we really made a choice if we later are able to change that choice? At what point do we choose and are done with it and can say for absolute certainty that our choice has been made? I am suggestion that as long as we think we can or actually can change our mind; we really have not made a choice; we have in reality postponed our “real” choice.

I would also submit that if we postpone our choices long enough that we will in essence lose our ability to choose and leave the power of our choice to something that we have no influence or control. But if we do not understand all that is possible about something how can we make any choice concerning it and be certain that we should not change our mind when and if we uncover something that we did not previously know? What then – in reality are we capable of making any real choices concerning anything in this life we are all experiencing?

I guess what I am suggestion is that any being (G-d or man) that is not omnipotent (all knowing) there is no possibility of real and actual choice – to even think so is an illusion.

The Traveler

[WmLee]

Traveler ~ This is funny! Reminds me of when I worked on the drug detail and would get the pot heads talking.

If you’re walking across town and decide to turn left at the intersection, and then turn left, you made a decision and acted on it. A block later you decide to turn around, go back past the initial street and continue, does than void out the first decision you made?? Of course not. You simply changed direction. You made a choice and you acted on that decision for which something occurred. (now I’m sounding like a pot head).

If given a choice, for which you make a decision and act on it, you have completed the decision. Anything that follows is a new decision, a new act.

Your question is so funny and gave me great memories! Thanks.

[Blackmarch]

The concepts expressed in the thread titled G-d’s Omnipotence have got me thinking.

Let me ask a question: If we consider a thing the best we can and then decide to take specific action – Is that a choice? Have we exercised a choice? What then are we doing if we change our mind? Did we actually and realistically exercise our “choice” the first time or the second? What I am asking is – have we really made a choice if we later are able to change that choice? At what point do we choose and are done with it and can say for absolute certainty that our choice has been made? I am suggestion that as long as we think we can or actually can change our mind; we really have not made a choice; we have in reality postponed our “real” choice.

I would also submit that if we postpone our choices long enough that we will in essence lose our ability to choose and leave the power of our choice to something that we have no influence or control. But if we do not understand all that is possible about something how can we make any choice concerning it and be certain that we should not change our mind when and if we uncover something that we did not previously know? What then – in reality are we capable of making any real choices concerning anything in this life we are all experiencing?

I guess what I am suggestion is that any being (G-d or man) that is not omnipotent (all knowing) there is no possibility of real and actual choice – to even think so is an illusion.

The Traveler

A choice is an act of making a judgement on the paths before you and acting upon it.

When you make that judgement doors will close and others will open, requireing a new judgement and a new action. Even the act of "not choosing" is a choice- an action that leads to consequences.

I'd say that if you postpone making choices, then opportunities in which to make choices will diminish.

there are two theings to understand that are very seperate:

Freedom of choice, and freedom

Freedom is the number of choices to choose from.

Freedom of choice or freedom of will - an individuals ability to make a judgement within the choices available.

In my experience most seem to mix up freedom and freedom of will, and generally present a case that constitutes a loss of freedom rather of one of loss of freedom of will.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Blackmarch

[Finrock]

Good afternoon WmLee. I hope you are enjoying your afternoon! :)

Traveler ~ This is funny! Reminds me of when I worked on the drug detail and would get the pot heads talking.

If you’re walking across town and decide to turn left at the intersection, and then turn left, you made a decision and acted on it. A block later you decide to turn around, go back past the initial street and continue, does than void out the first decision you made?? Of course not. You simply changed direction. You made a choice and you acted on that decision for which something occurred. (now I’m sounding like a pot head).

If given a choice, for which you make a decision and act on it, you have completed the decision. Anything that follows is a new decision, a new act.

Your question is so funny and gave me great memories! Thanks.

Either intentionally or unintentionally you have ridiculed the Traveler. I don't believe his question is "stoner" talk. It is a legitimate philosophical question as to what is "choice"? And, you don't have to smoke pot in order to think it so.

The Traveler's premise, I believe, is that we do not have full knowledge and therefore he concludes that we can not have real choice without full knowledge. Do you agree or disagree? Why or why not?

Regards,

Finrock

[Seminarysnoozer]

Thanks Traveler, interesting thoughts. Also, choices evolve over time depending on our understanding and development. When I was little I wanted to be a ballerina but later I chose to become a nurse. I had no idea or understanding what a nurse was at the time I thought I wanted to be a ballerina.

I also have friends from Brazil who have never tried root beer before. I can't say they never chose to drink root beer, it was never available to them. Some of them liked it and some didn't so much. Now, they can choose that if they wanted. But, I think those that don't like it so much relate the taste to medicine, so their past experiences drive the choice. I know those are simple examples but I think a choice can evolve.

I don't think HF looks at it in such black and white definitions. Just like everything else there is a measure of importance placed on different choices based on many things, our experience, our circumstances when we make the choice, our talents and abilities, our families choices, why we are making the choices etc. I believe He takes into consideration all of those factors and places a degree of responsibility to any choice based on all those things. I don't think it has to be a 100% competent choice to mean something though. A 10% competent choice will be treated like a 10% competent choice etc. And that choice may change when one is 50% competent to the subject and both choices will be valid and judged accordingly.

For example, if one decides to ignore the word of wisdom and smoke until they get lip cancer and then they stop, those were both choices over the same subject but the circumstances changes. The person in the end had motivating factors that changed the choice and that, I think, is all valid and useful information in God's justice system. Being compelled to repent is different than repenting without being compelled.

[WmLee]

Good afternoon WmLee. I hope you are enjoying your afternoon! :)

Either intentionally or unintentionally you have ridiculed the Traveler. I don't believe his question is "stoner" talk. It is a legitimate philosophical question as to what is "choice"? And, you don't have to smoke pot in order to think it so.

The Traveler's premise, I believe, is that we do not have full knowledge and therefore he concludes that we can not have real choice without full knowledge. Do you agree or disagree? Why or why not?

Regards,

Finrock

I do so apologize to Traveler and to anyone else who thought I was belittling in my statements. I was amused by the way the question was asked. Again, not to make fun of or to put Traveler down, it just struck my funny. I was sincere in my answer, though I believe BlackMarch put it much better.

Traveler, I do apologize for my remarks. It is a very good question and in my inability to make my answer clear I even referred to myself as sounding like “a pot head”. I don’t think either of us are. I will be more careful with my writing and my humor.

Wm.

[JudoMinja]

I hope you don't mind Wm, but I'd like to use you as an example. I think you've just demonstrated in this thread the very subject Traveler was asking about.

You made a choice in how you responded to the topic. When pointed out to you, and upon reflection, you realized that the way you chose to respond wasn't exactly the best way. You could not take back that choice, but you could make up for it by clarifying and apologizing for any misunderstanding.

All our choices work much the same way. I, personally, do not think it is possible to ever really "take back" any choice, even the small ones. Whatever we choose, it will have some effect and that never changes. Perhaps the only way we could ever fully come to understand the nature of our choice would be by first making a wrong choice and correcting it. Sometimes, we can make a choice that we always follow through on and never alter, but usually we mess up again and again before we get it.

Even holding back or "deciding not to decide" is a choice, because our lack of action will have an affect on our lives and the lives of others.

The only way we give up our ability to choose is when we make a choice that limits our options. Addictions, for example. When you choose to partake of an addictive substance you are giving up your power to make choices to that substance. Essentially your choices become- do everything you can to keep the substance, or quit. Here, you still have a choice, but your options have become very limited.

The Lord wants us to act in ways that give us multiple options and free up our ability to choose. He does not want us to be bound or forced into situations with limited options. Sometimes, keeping the commandments and following him may appear binding as these addictions, but in reality choosing to follow Him makes us free. He has given us guidance and knowledge in how we can be free to exercise our agency. When we choose to act righteously, more opportunities are presented to us, as there are many many things that can be done which are righteous.

[Traveler]

Thanks to all of you. I believe this has been enlightening. Many of you are starting to catch on to the deeper concept of choice.

What I am trying to get across is the concept of making a real actual choice – as apposed to a guess. What I am saying is making a real and informed choice is different than making a guess at what you might think you are going after. Guesses are not real choices – but as many of you have pointed out – a guess can have the same effect as a choice.

I am thinking that even and especially when we make decisions based on faith they are in essences guesses and not actual choices.

There is an illusion that just because you get to pick something you are making a choice. What I am suggesting is we really do not make willful choices in this mortal existence – we make guesses. There are two very important notions with this concept.

First – no one is really making willful or honest choices because no one really understands the full outcome. We really do not have control over our lives. Just because we can pick something we are not in control. This question and understanding has been understood since ancient times and the concept of destiny or something being in control has always been part of human thinking.

Second – when we understand it should be a lot easier to forgive everybody regardless of how bad their choices are – they really do not know what they are doing any better than we do. This open up a much better understanding of G-d’s grace and forgiveness.

The Traveler

PS. Thanks to those concerned about what some have said about my posts – but to be honest I would rather have a response that challenges my thinking than a response that is not thinking about the question.

[Finrock]

Good evening Traveler. I hope you are doing well today! :)

Thanks to all of you. I believe this has been enlightening. Many of you are starting to catch on to the deeper concept of choice.

What I am trying to get across is the concept of making a real actual choice – as apposed to a guess. What I am saying is making a real and informed choice is different than making a guess at what you might think you are going after. Guesses are not real choices – but as many of you have pointed out – a guess can have the same effect as a choice.

I am thinking that even and especially when we make decisions based on faith they are in essences guesses and not actual choices.

There is an illusion that just because you get to pick something you are making a choice. What I am suggesting is we really do not make willful choices in this mortal existence – we make guesses. There are two very important notions with this concept.

First – no one is really making willful or honest choices because no one really understands the full outcome. We really do not have control over our lives. Just because we can pick something we are not in control. This question and understanding has been understood since ancient times and the concept of destiny or something being in control has always been part of human thinking.

Second – when we understand it should be a lot easier to forgive everybody regardless of how bad their choices are – they really do not know what they are doing any better than we do. This open up a much better understanding of G-d’s grace and forgiveness.

The Traveler

PS. Thanks to those concerned about what some have said about my posts – but to be honest I would rather have a response that challenges my thinking than a response that is not thinking about the question.

I would like to ask a question for clarification. I'm not absolutely certain why at this point, but at a gut level I am skeptical of your position here. However, to further clarify your position I wish to ask if you are contending that all choices mortals make are never completely informed choices?

Thank you for your time.

Regards,

Finrock

[Justice]

What I am asking is – have we really made a choice if we later are able to change that choice?

I'd like to apply this to repentance, since sin is the only choice that actually has the ability to damn us (stop our progression). If a person repents of sin, and all together turns from it, but then later reverts back to his old sin, did he really repent?

It's a very good question, and a very good topic.

I think we overcomplicate things sometimes.

Mosiah 26:

30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.

God is looking for a changed person. He encourages, even commands, for us to overcome the carnal man and follow after the spiritual man. Just because a man has repented and turned from a sin once, and fails, doesn't mean God will not allow him to try again This is the entire purpose for this earth. This mortal life grants us a time to repent and learn to serve the Lord.

God said it was not expedient that man should be reclaimed from the physical death until AFTER he was reclaimed from the spiritual death (will provided scriptures if need be). SO, until we are resurrected, we are still in time and are still in our probationary state, or our prepratory state.

God said that if we "sin unto death" we have wasted the time of our mortal probation, and that the judgement will not be well with us. But, if we repent before we die, and are reclaimed spiritually before the resurrection, then Christ's atonement can be applied to us.

I think a person can repent for the same sin multiple times. It's a "heart" issue. Are you sincere? Do you honeslty feel you never want to sin again? That's a beautiful place to be, no matter how many times we have to try.

[marts1]

I think we do know enough to make to make well informed choices just by the fact we are human. We don't operate by instink as animals do. It is a gift from God that we know or have a sense of good and evil therefore I think we are capable of making totally informed choices. It is possible to reduce this effect through sin. If a person lives in sin enough, the ability to know right from wrong can completely be wiped out. This is extremely rare but I have seen it. The man looked and acted very much like an animal, performing feats like you wouldn't believe. This was on a Pierre Burton show. Those of us old enough might remember that highly respected show. It took quite some time for the law to catch this criminal. I'll never forget that face. Another thought that comes to mind is the fact that God, we learn can do no wrong. Does this mean He has lost the ability to choose? Not at all, it just means He chose good over evil which is the same choice we have here which cannot be takin away by any outside force whatsoever.

[JudoMinja]

Lack of information or understanding of the consequences does not change the fact that we make a choice. A guess is still a choice. We are always making choices, small and large, every moment of every day.

We all have within us the Spirit of Christ, the ability to tell right from wrong. This is the only information we need when making a choice. If you are presented with an apple and a cookie as choices for a snack, no matter how much information you have about the two choices, you are still making a choice. You can choose the apple. You can choose the cookie. You can choose neither. You can even choose both.

Do you need to know the exact chemical make-up and their effect on your digestion for this to be considered a choice? No. More detailed knowledge can help you make a more informed choice, but it is not necessary. Even a child knows that both are sweet, but the cookie more enticing and the apple more healthy. They know the cookie will satisfy their tastebuds, but the apple will help them grow up strong. No more knowledge is necessary.

All that is necessary for a choice to be made is a contrast. There must be a good and a bad, a right and a wrong. As long as these opposites are present, we can make a choice.

[Traveler]

Good evening Traveler. I hope you are doing well today! :)

I would like to ask a question for clarification. I'm not absolutely certain why at this point, but at a gut level I am skeptical of your position here. However, to further clarify your position I wish to ask if you are contending that all choices mortals make are never completely informed choices?

Thank you for your time.

Regards,

Finrock

Exactly - as mortals we must live (choose) by faith. But there is more to who we are than that which is mortal.

What I suggest we consider that in order from man to be able to have actual will and be held accountable is when we (mankind) know full well what we choose. How can G-d be just when a person does not quite completely understand what they are getting into - Which is why G-d can justly extend his mercy and require that the Messiah atone for the sins of all mankind. And why the gospel must be taught in the spirit world. But most of all, why no one should fear the judgment - We are told in scripture that all things will be revealed therefore when we make our choice at the last judgment – that it is a real choice.

Thus all the questions about someday selecting another kingdom have no point.

There are many questions about why Lucifer (Satan) cannot repent. He has made an informed choice and therefore cannot have mercy. And so our mortal choices are not informed and so we can repent. But the warning is and as experience teaches – when we choose evil, it is not so much the effect that evil has on what we do to others as to what it does to us in that it become more difficult to repent.

Many think that repentance has failed each time we sin but in truth it is the opposite – it is sin that has failed each time we repent. And so we live by faith in constant need to repent because our choices are based on incomplete understanding and a need for mercy. It is this process by which we change from what we were to a divine being like unto G-d.

Thus the choice of value becomes the choice to repent but can only be learned by repenting.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

A choice?

Makes me think of the Coach who at the last play of the bowl game called for a two point conversion for a win, rather than the field goal for a tie. When the kicker makes it, the coach is the hero strategist. When the throw is intercepted, the coach is the object of derision for the rest of the year.

The core truth to this is that the Coach was and will remain a child of God whether the ball reached the goal or not.

[marts1]

"Which is why G-d can justly extend his mercy and require that the Messiah atone for the sins of all mankind"

I've been taught He atoned only for repented sins, however all will benefit from the atonement by being resurrected.

[Traveler]

"Which is why G-d can justly extend his mercy and require that the Messiah atone for the sins of all mankind"

I've been taught He atoned only for repented sins, however all will benefit from the atonement by being resurrected.

Death is the wage of sin - unless the effects of sin (death) are "redeemed" there cannot be a resurrection. Thus all are released from the grip of sin and death and Hell have no power. But once we have full understanding and knowledge of all things and then choose evil or choose not be Celestial then it is that our choice is eternal and is beyond G-d’s mercy.

The Traveler

[Justice]

Traveler, isn't it interesting that redemption from physical death was available to Adam and Eve for a short time? (Alma 12 and 42)

In discussing choices, I believe this may be one of the greatest choices ever made (the one alluded to in Alma 12 and 42) that was not written in scripture. It appears to me that Adam and Eve made the choice NOT to partake of the tree of life at that time, after they ate the forbidden fruit, and chose God's plan to enter mortality... outside the Garden. It says God caused a cherubim and flaming sword to guard the tree of life AFTER He removed them from the Garden. This also could be part of the reason Adam and Eve are honored and respected for making the choice.

It's speculation; I remember no quotes from GAs to offer to substantiate my theory, just my feelings. But, Alma is clear that it was Satan's plan for them to eat the tree of life immediately after they ate the forbidden fruit. It sure makes many details of the story fall into place.

[Blackmarch]

Thanks to all of you. I believe this has been enlightening. Many of you are starting to catch on to the deeper concept of choice.

What I am trying to get across is the concept of making a real actual choice – as apposed to a guess. What I am saying is making a real and informed choice is different than making a guess at what you might think you are going after. Guesses are not real choices – but as many of you have pointed out – a guess can have the same effect as a choice.

I am thinking that even and especially when we make decisions based on faith they are in essences guesses and not actual choices.

There is an illusion that just because you get to pick something you are making a choice. What I am suggesting is we really do not make willful choices in this mortal existence – we make guesses. There are two very important notions with this concept.

First – no one is really making willful or honest choices because no one really understands the full outcome. We really do not have control over our lives. Just because we can pick something we are not in control. This question and understanding has been understood since ancient times and the concept of destiny or something being in control has always been part of human thinking.

Second – when we understand it should be a lot easier to forgive everybody regardless of how bad their choices are – they really do not know what they are doing any better than we do. This open up a much better understanding of G-d’s grace and forgiveness.

The Traveler

PS. Thanks to those concerned about what some have said about my posts – but to be honest I would rather have a response that challenges my thinking than a response that is not thinking about the question.

I do not think that lack of knowledge/foresight eliminates one's will. Until one becomes as god and can see the full path of consequences of an action, no one can see all... sometimes youmight be able to see further down the path of a choice, sometimes you might not see the path at all.

I play chess often, and i'm not smart enough to see all the consequences and possiblilities from a given move. When the point comes when I do not have "free will", the game ends, either as a draw or my loss... but that does not make my choices any less honest or less willful.

Free will has nothing to do about being in control beyond being able to make a choice on your own.

If you can't see a choice because of lack of knowledge then that lack of knowledge is inhibiting your freedom.

Cnsequently the only being(s) I believe that are truly free are God and those who are like him, or are in a similar place as he is.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Blackmarch

[Hemidakota]

The concepts expressed in the thread titled G-d’s Omnipotence have got me thinking.

Let me ask a question: If we consider a thing the best we can and then decide to take specific action – Is that a choice? Have we exercised a choice? What then are we doing if we change our mind? Did we actually and realistically exercise our “choice” the first time or the second? What I am asking is – have we really made a choice if we later are able to change that choice? At what point do we choose and are done with it and can say for absolute certainty that our choice has been made? I am suggestion that as long as we think we can or actually can change our mind; we really have not made a choice; we have in reality postponed our “real” choice.

I would also submit that if we postpone our choices long enough that we will in essence lose our ability to choose and leave the power of our choice to something that we have no influence or control. But if we do not understand all that is possible about something how can we make any choice concerning it and be certain that we should not change our mind when and if we uncover something that we did not previously know? What then – in reality are we capable of making any real choices concerning anything in this life we are all experiencing?

I guess what I am suggestion is that any being (G-d or man) that is not omnipotent (all knowing) there is no possibility of real and actual choice – to even think so is an illusion.

The Traveler

Spiritual existment is based on agency long before GOD was GOD.

[Hemidakota]

"Which is why G-d can justly extend his mercy and require that the Messiah atone for the sins of all mankind"

I've been taught He atoned only for repented sins, however all will benefit from the atonement by being resurrected.

Even in resurrection not all bodies are alike. Only those who reside at the highest level with the Godhead will achieve this type of ressurected body.

[Traveler]

I do not think that lack of knowledge/foresight eliminates one's will. Until one becomes as god and can see the full path of consequences of an action, no one can see all... sometimes youmight be able to see further down the path of a choice, sometimes you might not see the path at all.

I play chess often, and i'm not smart enough to see all the consequences and possiblilities from a given move. When the point comes when I do not have "free will", the game ends, either as a draw or my loss... but that does not make my choices any less honest or less willful.

Free will has nothing to do about being in control beyond being able to make a choice on your own.

If you can't see a choice because of lack of knowledge then that lack of knowledge is inhibiting your freedom.

Cnsequently the only being(s) I believe that are truly free are God and those who are like him, or are in a similar place as he is.

Thanks for reading and thinking. I would like to ask you a couple of questions about your thinking?

1. How can a person express will or have will unless they are free?

2. How can a person be free unless they know the truth?

Jesus taught that we must be know the truth to be free. This would imply that without the truth we are not free and if we are not free we do not have will. There is one other thought - if one willfully rejects truth the expression of that will shall result in the loss of freedom and will. I have pondered on this thought and wondered how a person coulld "willfully" reject truth. It was then I realized what it is to reject light and truth. It is not a single choice but a process by which we create values to make choices. Once a person begins a process that is contrary to light and truth actual will is lost and truth is rejected. We can say this is not really will but in essence it is - because in eternity it can only be made when one knowings the truth and the end of it. The point is that we can make choices void of freedom and will which is the choice and state of Satan and his followers.

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

Thanks for reading and thinking. I would like to ask you a couple of questions about your thinking?

1. How can a person express will or have will unless they are free?

2. How can a person be free unless they know the truth?

Even .01% freedom is still freedom. As long as people have some room to express it, it is free. Once you take away all freedom it would be impossible to tell if free will existed or not.

And yes knowledge is very important in gaining freedom.

Jesus taught that we must be know the truth to be free. This would imply that without the truth we are not free and if we are not free we do not have will. There is one other thought - if one willfully rejects truth the expression of that will shall result in the loss of freedom and will. I have pondered on this thought and wondered how a person coulld "willfully" reject truth. It was then I realized what it is to reject light and truth. It is not a single choice but a process by which we create values to make choices. Once a person begins a process that is contrary to light and truth actual will is lost and truth is rejected. We can say this is not really will but in essence it is - because in eternity it can only be made when one knowings the truth and the end of it. The point is that we can make choices void of freedom and will which is the choice and state of Satan and his followers.

The Traveler

I agree for the most part. I think rather than will, that freedom is lost... and they align their wills in way contrary to how God would- a lose-lose situation.

I also think that the other thing that the adversary tries to work on is to get people to either despair or to be complacent so that they don't exercise their will, or at least long enough that they are bound and have little freedom in which to exercise it.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Blackmarch

[Seminarysnoozer]

Freedoms in this world directly correlate to what aspect of your duel being is in charge and to what degree. If it is your spirit or your body that is in charge. For Jesus to overcome this world speaks of ultimate freedom, there was no aspect of his body that controlled his spirit in the end ... it got close, but the spirit won. The more we let our spiritual being remain in charge of what we do and think the more free we will be, the more options and choices will be offered us. Satan only has direct power over our bodies but secondarily can gain power over our spirits if we let him. To remain free from that bondage we have to ignore the nagging influences of the body as much as we can. Like Blackmarch said, the adversary works on despair, complacency ... these are bodily functions, like Peter in the garden wanting to sleep.

To me, knowledge is less important than gaining control over your bodily passions. If all one can do in this life is to win out over the pull of Satan away from the straight and narrow, knowing that he can only pull on the body, not the spirit ... than we will be free. The more we base choices on bodily influences which sometimes includes what we call 'logical' or our learned mind ignoring the spiritual influence the less free we are.

Because thats where the struggle is, between spirit and body, you cannot take freedom away from someone fully unless you disconnect the two, like with drugs or if someone is in a coma. Shy of that, there is still freedom.

Sometimes knowledge is a hinderence to getting there. Like Timothy says; "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. ... 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

In other words, we have to come to a certain knowledge but just as important know who it is coming from which requires faith.

[JudoMinja]

Traveler-

I would propose that you are speaking of two entirely different forms of freedom.

1. Free will or the freedom to choose

2. Freedom of the spirit

These are not the same. We can use our "free will" to obtain freedom of the spirit. That is our choice. "Werefore all men are free to choose Liberty and eternal life through the great mediator of all men or to choose captivity and death according to the power and captivity of the devil." (Not quoted exactly, but that's the gist of it.)

We are and always will be free to choose. This will never be taken away from us. What limits us, is when we make choices that bind our spirits. When we reject the truth, the gospel, and the Savior, we find ourselves caught in the binding power of the temptations of the devil. He can cloud our minds and our judgment. He can use the weaknesses of our bodies to pull us into addictions. He can make evil appear good. He'll tell ten truths just so he can fit in one lie. He is the ultimate deceiver, and he knows just how to get to us.

But, God provided us with a way out. When we choose to accept that out, when we choose to follow Christ, He (the truth) can set us free. No matter how much our judgment or perception of the consequences becomes clouded, that choice is always there. And when we make that choice, the clouds will be parted for the pathway to enlightenment.

[Hemidakota]

There is no actual 'FREE' in Agency. It is just agency – choosing for oneself. There is no free will since a price has to be paid to overcome justice and we still have to work, with the combination of faith, both needs to be applied with action. Even Adam was told, that he faced a plight when leaving the garden for food. Paraphrasing here, ‘…by the sweat of thy brow, thy will toil the land.’ This is why many GA’s have changed their viewpoint of what is agency versus the old notion of free agency or free will.