The horrors of socialized medicine.

[FunkyTown]

Having moved to England, I thought that I'd kick in with my horror stories of the NHS.

Just last week, I had a bad cold and needed to go to the Doctors. I went in and... get this I had to wait fifteen whole minutes before I saw a doctor!

And it gets worse. Several months ago, I was pretty sick. Turns out I wasn't getting enough potassium. I won't get in to the symptoms because it isn't important, but they needed to do some testing at the hospital.

I made an appointment, got to see them almost 24 hours later. The Doctor did some tests, arranged for me to go to the hospital and I had my tests three whole days later.

I'm reading so much about how bad socialized medicine is that I thought I'd support you all and give my personal experiences. THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

[Hemidakota]

Hmm...really. It depends on where you live and whether there is enough doctors to serve you.

[talisyn]

I feel for you. Over here in the States I took my daughter in as a walk-in to a clinic for her bad cold and had to come back about 36 hrs later to finally see a dr. I can't imagine how hard it would have been to have to wait a whole 15 minutes

[Palerider]

Having moved to England, I thought that I'd kick in with my horror stories of the NHS.

Just last week, I had a bad cold and needed to go to the Doctors. I went in and... get this I had to wait fifteen whole minutes before I saw a doctor!

And it gets worse. Several months ago, I was pretty sick. Turns out I wasn't getting enough potassium. I won't get in to the symptoms because it isn't important, but they needed to do some testing at the hospital.

I made an appointment, got to see them almost 24 hours later. The Doctor did some tests, arranged for me to go to the hospital and I had my tests three whole days later.

I'm reading so much about how bad socialized medicine is that I thought I'd support you all and give my personal experiences. THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

Its nice to see your tax dollars at work for you....

[FunkyTown]

Its nice to see your tax dollars at work for you....

Hahah. There's no denying: England pays for it's health services! Taxes are very high in England. On the other hand, the NHS works well for the individual. It's sadly mired by bureaucracy(There are more middle managers than Doctors and Nurses), but at least I can get cheap meds and good health care!

[mrmarklin]

I have and English friend. I was at dinner with him and his then girlfriend a few years ago, and asked what she did for a living. She sells Heath Insurance!!

I thought it was free in England.........she said it is but if you actually want attention and get cured.........you buy her policy.

[annamaureen]

Hmm...really. It depends on where you live and whether there is enough doctors to serve you.

Yeah, my English grandmother had to go out of country for a surgery because the waiting list was so long. I guess there are good and bad stories.

[dazed-and-confused]

want horror stories?....try VA medicine in Jax, FL...it's terrible....months for an appointment....but in other places i've been, it was great.

[Mahone]

I have and English friend. I was at dinner with him and his then girlfriend a few years ago, and asked what she did for a living. She sells Heath Insurance!!

I thought it was free in England.........she said it is but if you actually want attention and get cured.........you buy her policy.

Lol. Glad I don't listen to everything the sales people would have me believe... I'd be in a bit of a mess right now if I did

[Moksha]

Its nice to see your tax dollars at work for you....

Good point. The British get what they paid for, which in this case means paying less and getting more. There is a reason the United States health care costs more than anywhere else in the world: More people to suck out more profits in our health care dollars. These other "so called" industrial nations lack our freedom to hornswoggle and the business friendly politicians to keep this tradition alive.

[Moksha]

...she said it is but if you actually want attention and get cured.........you buy her policy.

Sounds like she could have a career with Amway or NuSkin.

[Palerider]

Good point. The British get what they paid for, which in this case means paying less and getting more. There is a reason the United States health care costs more than anywhere else in the world: More people to suck out more profits in our health care dollars. These other "so called" industrial nations lack our freedom to hornswoggle and the business friendly politicians to keep this tradition alive.

paying less and getting more what????? Do you know what the tax rate is there ??? or you just satisfied to hear the word free associated ???

[boyando]

Here is the real horror story, about England's health care system.

UK National Debt | Economics Blog

The US does have a higher debt ratio. I don't think it is a good idea to add to our debt and not be better off, for it.

oxymoron=free health care

[Moksha]

paying less and getting more what????? Do you know what the tax rate is there ??? or you just satisfied to hear the word free associated ???

Taxes are one thing. Add the money taken out of your check to pay for the insurance you get from your company as a benefit or the money out of your pocket to pay for private pay insurance and the myriad of other out of pocket expenses, and you have the United States health care non-system. The most expensive health care in the world.

A system that let's others nibble your health care dollar before you get one bit of health care. A system that has a health care overhead cost like no other.

Nothing is free, but that is no reason to throw money after profiteers! A national system that controlled health care costs at all steps along the way would save us money and give us better care.

:)

[Palerider]

Taxes are one thing. Add the money taken out of your check to pay for the insurance you get from your company as a benefit or the money out of your pocket to pay for private pay insurance and the myriad of other out of pocket expenses, and you have the United States health care non-system. The most expensive health care in the world.

A system that let's others nibble your health care dollar before you get one bit of health care. A system that has a health care overhead cost like no other.

Nothing is free, but that is no reason to throw money after profiteers! A national system that controlled health care costs at all steps along the way would save us money and give us better care.

:)

You mean to say...you hope it does....you have no way of knowing if it will be better and save us money????...save us money????...

[pyxiwulf]

The Doctor did some tests, arranged for me to go to the hospital and I had my tests three whole days later.

3 days to have tests taken ? I'll keep my group insurance same day testing thank you very much.

[prisonchaplain]

The best medical care I experienced was in South Korea. Glasses in 60 minutes, with a free exam, for about $70 (I use transitional lenses, and the frames are mid-grade fashionable). My throat hurts? I could see an Ear Nose Throat specialist, get my ears cleaned, have a breathing treatment, and get full color video of the exam--all in about an hour. And yes, the national healthcare insurance greatly subsidizes all this--without nearly the expenditure of European systems.

IMHO, IF socialized medicine is the answer, the packaging is vitally important. We could not afford the lard-laden conglomeration that was waddling through Congress. Also, abortion politics may make such a system impossible for us.

Not sure what the solution is, but there some that are proposed are more sickening than the status quo.

[ferretrunner]

want horror stories?....try VA medicine in Jax, FL...it's terrible....months for an appointment....but in other places i've been, it was great.

The VA system is understaffed. ANd we're making new veterans every day. I work at a rural VA facility. It's small. We can take care of routine appointments. But, every day our doctors are booked fully, often double booked. We have problems getting anyone in for anything other than their regular physicals and routine check backs. We used to have an urgent care service. Funding.... gone. It's frustrating for both staff and veterans.

We also have no hospital. Same day, simple surgeries only. No ortho. If you need a prosthetic limb,you travel. We have to send these vets to other VA facilities- that are also overcrowded. Because some bean counter decided that we weren't serving "enough" veterans for it to be cost effective. And having them wait 2-3 months and pay for travel and hotel IS cost effective??? I really don't think the gvt is saving any money by closing our hospital and paying contract services for ER and hospitalization when our vets need more advanced medical care. GRRR. Sorry, thread hijack.

Edited February 19, 2010 by ferretrunner

[Moksha]

IMHO, IF socialized medicine is the answer, the packaging is vitally important. We could not afford the lard-laden conglomeration that was waddling through Congress.

Your point is very well taken.

Obama thinks that if those who siphon the health care dollars feel too threatened, passage of any legislation would be impossible.

[FunkyTown]

Your point is very well taken.

Obama thinks that if those who siphon the health care dollars feel too threatened, passage of any legislation would be impossible.

I can agree with PC. They can't just 'fix' medicare/medicaid. They have to destroy it.

They have to destroy it and build from the ground up a system that works. This will make enemies, but it has to be done.

[Palerider]

I can agree with PC. They can't just 'fix' medicare/medicaid. They have to destroy it.

They have to destroy it and build from the ground up a system that works. This will make enemies, but it has to be done.

can we start by getting rid of the trial lawyers.....:D

[hordak]

The VA system is understaffed. ANd we're making new veterans every day. I work at a rural VA facility. It's small. We can take care of routine appointments. But, every day our doctors are booked fully, often double booked. We have problems getting anyone in for anything other than their regular physicals and routine check backs. We used to have an urgent care service. Funding.... gone. It's frustrating for both staff and veterans.

We also have no hospital. Same day, simple surgeries only. No ortho. If you need a prosthetic limb,you travel. We have to send these vets to other VA facilities- that are also overcrowded. Because some bean counter decided that we weren't serving "enough" veterans for it to be cost effective. And having them wait 2-3 months and pay for travel and hotel IS cost effective??? I really don't think the gvt is saving any money by closing our hospital and paying contract services for ER and hospitalization when our vets need more advanced medical care. GRRR. Sorry, thread hijack.

See this is what i find most interesting about the universal health care debate. There are issues of can people afford health care but this thread focuses on wait times and i hear other arguments about how hospital and clinics run and people have this idea the problems will go away with a universal system but when looking at the "universal system" we have VA/ Tri Care the problems are still there. Active duty members, who have free health care still use the E.R. as a clinic because getting an appointment can take 3-7 days, depending on staff, facilities,what your seen for etc.

So if people want to discuss the cost i say that's a good discussion. If people think the E.R.s will empty, everyone will get same day appointment, and care will suddenly be fast an efficient like your local fast food joint, because someone else pays, they are really over simplifying the medical field.

[Moksha]

I can agree with PC. They can't just 'fix' medicare/medicaid. They have to destroy it.

They have to destroy it and build from the ground up a system that works. This will make enemies, but it has to be done.

Medicaid is a direct pay program that has some degrees of cost control built into it. As Bytor has pointed out, it could serve as a roll model for a better health care system, yet if we want to start anew and do out very best, the Japanese model is the most cost efficient and effective way to go. For those who may be reluctant, no this does not mean you will have to learn the metric system. So relax.

[Guest mormonmusic]

If I can chip in -- I grew up in Canada where we have a socialized medicine program. It was good when I was a teenager. Partly because I was rarely sick, but we also had a family doctor all the time, and no one complained.

However, it was funded through deficits, which became a concern as the federal debt got out of control in the 90's.

So, in the last 10 years, it deteriorated. It culminated when we moved into an area known as "the technology triangle" in Ontario. This was an up-to-date, modern part of the province of Ontario with good jobs and a stable economy, and all the ameneties of city living.

3 Hours Waits to see a General Practictioner; No Family Doctor

However, to control the budget, the government had limited the supply of doctors. We couldn't get a family doctor. So we had to go to walk-in clinics. The wait was about 2-3 hours every time our young children got sick and needed to see a doctor. The doctors didn't know your case, because you got a different doctor every single time.

Dismissive Doctors

Also, I noticed they tended to dismiss things rather than order tests. For example, I kept having some symptoms of a possible condition, so I asked if I should be tested for that medical condition. They said No, it only happens in women. Then, finally, I gave my work address to a family doctor in a town 1 hour from where I worked, and finally got on as a patient. She ordered a test and found I had the very condition I thought I did. The thing was, my plea was dismissed by two doctors at the clinic -- they always seemed so drained and harried all the time. It was like they wanted to deal only with the urgent matters and not the things that weren't making you immediately sick.

Poor Access to Tests and Treatments

Also, people die waiting for cancer treatments because there isn't enough funding to buy the needed machinery.

My brother had a nervous/skeletal/muscular problem with his shoulder, which vexed him greatly as a professional musician. The doctors said he had to wait 8 months before he could get in for a test. He came to me asking for money so he could get one on a few days' notice by hopping the border to the United States.

Also, there was an elective procedure I wanted. It took 3 months to get the initial visit with the specialist just to talk about the procedure, risks, and how it works. Then, when I decided I'd go ahead with it, they were booked for the next 6 months. The only day they were free to let me do it was 5 days after I was scheduled to leave the country for a new job in America. So, I never did get the surgery.

HealthCare was Not Free!!!

Finally, the new provincial government ran on a "no new taxes" platform in 2003/2004. They were elected. One of their first acts was to impose a tax ranging from $300-$1000 a year/person to start working off the Health Care debt. For me, it would've been $1000 a year on top of the 15% in retail sales taxes I had to pay, my 18% effective tax rate, and all the other nickel and diming the government did to us to pay for their inefficient programs.

I'm against socialized medicine except in cases where the person will be forced into bankruptcy or having to sell their home. Catastrophic stuff.

For me, socialized medicine means unacceptable waiting lines, bad service, and annoying taxes every time you turn around. That was my experience.

(I also agree with Hemidakota who said there are regional differences in the service; I ended up in an area which, for whatever reason, had bad healthcare)

Edited February 20, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Elgama]

Hmm...really. It depends on where you live and whether there is enough doctors to serve you.

it depends on how good the Doctor you have picked as well- if you have an emergency or need to see a Dr same day and phone before 9.30am you will get an appointment that day. If you don't you can park your backside in A&E and get seen.

But most people living in the UK day to day who have used the NHS have good things to say about it. Sure you get horror stories but you get them in the USA