Questions for Mormons

[fatguy]

I am researching the LDS religion and would highly appreciate straightforward answers to these questions. I am not fishing for hate, nor am I attempting to insult anyone's beliefs. These are honest questions that demand answers.

1) Until 1978, the Mormon church forbid black people to hold the priesthood. Why?

2) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Why?

3) No DNA or archeological study shows any evidence of the huge populations the Book of Mormon claims lived in North America. Why?

4) The Fundamentalist LDS church behaves in radically perverted ways, yet still worships the same book and religious leaders. Why?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear things up.

Edited February 22, 2010 by fatguy
added thankyou note.

[FunkyTown]

Since you are looking for honest answers, I will post them. I should note that most of these topics have come up numerous times and a simple search would reveal the answers you seek, but I'll post the answer. If you need clarification instead of debate, feel free to do a 'search' for posts involving your questions:

1)

Dispelling the Black Myth | Blacklds.org

2) Short answer: Because God commanded it. I could go in to dynastic marriages, lack of males in the church due to deaths or any of the other things that have been covered innumerable times.

Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Marriages to young women - FAIRMormon

3) DNA and the Book of Mormon

4) It's difficult to say that a church has 'radically perverted practices'. I'm fairly certain nobody here has ever sat down with FLDS members, their sons and daughters and attempted to understand who they are and why they do the things they do. Perhaps some are. Perhaps some are of the 'Strain a gnat, swallow a camel' type of Christian that every church struggles with. Perhaps some are very faithful following the traditions of their parents.

Barring personally meeting, shaking the hands of and talking about one's beliefs, I'm not going to condemn anyone. That's not really my place. I would suggest posting this particular question on an FLDS website for any real understanding.

I am researching the LDS religion and would highly appreciate straightforward answers to these questions. I am not fishing for hate, nor am I attempting to insult anyone's beliefs. These are honest questions that demand answers.

1) Until 1978, the Mormon church forbid black people to hold the priesthood. Why?

2) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Why?

3) No DNA or archeological study shows any evidence of the huge populations the Book of Mormon claims lived in North America. Why?

4) The Fundamentalist LDS church behaves in radically perverted ways, yet still worships the same book and religious leaders. Why?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear things up.

[ehkape]

1) Until 1978, the Mormon church forbid black people to hold the priesthood. Why?

because the leaders taught blacks held the curse of cain (dark skin) and were not allowed the blessings of the priesthood

2) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Why?

Because he said god commanded him to practise it

3) No DNA or archeological study shows any evidence of the huge populations the Book of Mormon claims lived in North America. Why?

yeah, why?

4) The Fundamentalist LDS church behaves in radically perverted ways, yet still worships the same book and religious leaders. Why?

Who knows? Maybe thats their interpretation of things. Why are there so many different christian groups? Catholics have a whole different approach to worship than born again christians might have.

very brief answers, but really, its all out there to be looked into

[Kukui]

It is interesting that you are researching the LDS religion and have come up with those 4 questions. I would suggest that you include in your research an in-depth study of the prophet Joseph Smith. A reading of the Book of Mormon would be invaluable in coming to an understanding of the LDS religion. This may seem odd but you could include in your scholarly research prayer because many of the things you will come across are spiritual in nature and can only be understood in a spiritual frame.

I applauded your desire to undertake such research and hope you will treat the subject fairly and not as the pessimists do. Pessimists generally come to the first negative thing they find and stop there while further study may reveal greater understanding.

Kukui

[Justice]

Yep, your first, most important question should be:

Is the Book of Momron true?

Until you really feel the urge to know, the rest of this stuff is just going to confuse you.

[rameumptom]

I am researching the LDS religion and would highly appreciate straightforward answers to these questions. I am not fishing for hate, nor am I attempting to insult anyone's beliefs. These are honest questions that demand answers.

1) Until 1978, the Mormon church forbid black people to hold the priesthood. Why?

Rameumptom: As with the Bible, there are times when the Lord restricts certain portions of the gospel. Under the Mosaic Law, the Levites held the priesthood authority, and no other Israelites could offer sacrifice. Jesus commanded his apostles to not preach to the Gentiles, but only to Israel. Only with the revelation to Peter was this restriction lifted, and Cornelius' family was baptized.

In our day, for some reason there was also a ban put in place. We really do not understand the reasons why, although some have speculated in the past. Recent studies suggest that it was partially based upon concerns from early members about mixed race marriages, and on 19th century interpretation of the curse of Cain and Canaan in the Bible.

Thankfully, the Lord has blessed us today that this ban has been rescinded via revelation. For more than 30 years, all men have had the blessing of being able to receive the priesthood, and all worthy members the blessings of the temple.

2) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Why?

Rameumptom: As Joseph studied the scriptures, the Lord would reveal new requirements to him and the members. When Joseph asked about polygamy in the Old Testament, the Lord told him that it would also be restored, and Joseph had to obey. Because of his delays, the Lord sent an angel with a sword to threaten Joseph to obey this commandment.

Just as Abraham probably did not want to sacrifice Isaac, but obeyed anyway, the members of our day also obeyed, even though they often found the commandment to be distasteful.

3) No DNA or archeological study shows any evidence of the huge populations the Book of Mormon claims lived in North America. Why?

Rameumptom: Actually, there were large populations of people in Mesoamerica - the most likely area for the Nephites. Some cities were tens of thousands of people in them. The Nephites were just one of many groups here in the Americas. In fact, the Book of Mormon mentions several peoples, and states that the Lord could send others as he would. Today, we believe that the Nephites were one small group among many here, and so we shouldn't expect to find Nephite DNA (even if we knew what it would look like). As it is, haplotype X chromosome HAS been found among certain Native Americans. While it is found in various areas of the world, it is also found in the Middle East. So, while it is not conclusive, there is DNA evidence that people from the Middle East could have settled in the Americas.

4) The Fundamentalist LDS church behaves in radically perverted ways, yet still worships the same book and religious leaders. Why?

Rameumptom: Because they took certain commandments and lived them differently. They have been apart from LDS for a century, and many changes have occurred in both groups. Look at the differences between Roman Catholics and Protestants, even though both use the same Bible and believe in Jesus and the apostles. Why shouldn't we also expect major divergences to happen in our day?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear things up.

Rameumptom: You are quite welcome.

[Blackmarch]

I am researching the LDS religion and would highly appreciate straightforward answers to these questions. I am not fishing for hate, nor am I attempting to insult anyone's beliefs. These are honest questions that demand answers.

1) Until 1978, the Mormon church forbid black people to hold the priesthood. Why?

we don't know why. But Brigham young was inspired that would be the best course at the time. As to why that would be the best course he didn't say.

2) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Why?

he was commanded to.

3) No DNA or archeological study shows any evidence of the huge populations the Book of Mormon claims lived in North America. Why?

shorta answer: Because DNA mapping is very very very very very complex. And two you need to have original samples to compare... and since the people who wwe need samples from are over a thousand years gone it's just a eensy weensy tad bit difficult to come by.

4) The Fundamentalist LDS church behaves in radically perverted ways, yet still worships the same book and religious leaders. Why?

beats me you'll have to ask them.

However the same sort of thing has happened to every major religion in the world. SO it must be a mark of humanity or something.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear things up.

I hope that helps things, unfortunately there is very little info on these subjects currently... altho there have been some interesting developements that have occurred in regards to the DNA question.

if you'd like some more reference to the DNA question try this link here

[NeuroTypical]

I'll comment on just one:

3) No DNA or archeological study shows any evidence of the huge populations the Book of Mormon claims lived in North America. Why?

False statement, invalid question. There is archaeological evidence of BoM claims, just not much, and certainly not conclusive. You need to understand that where archaology is involved, "absence of evidence" is not the same thing as "evidence of absence". The human race limped along for a double-fistful of centuries, arguing about the validity of the Bible because of all the places it talked about that nobody were sure existed.

As for DNA, this statement is made from a position of ignorance. What DNA can tell us about population migrations and roots, is very different than a lot of laypeople just assume. Also, we've got no good basis to even guess at what a BoM person's DNA would look like in the first place. You have to know what you're looking for, before you conclude that you aren't finding it.

Thanks,

LM

[skippy740]

BlacksInTheScriptures.com

[JohnOF123]

"2) Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Why?

he was commanded to.

Hey Blackmarch, I've seen you around christianforums.com! what's up. i just realized cause of the panther.

I didn't know that the LDS believed this. How many wives do they think or agree he had? Do they believe he took other mens wives like some claim?

Sometimes I'll joke around with my wife that I have a revelation to marry a couple of her friends, and that she gets to pick which ones it will be, lol. But she says she would pick the ugliest ones possible, hehe.

Edited February 22, 2010 by JohnOF123

[Saguaro]

How many wives do they think or agree he had? Do they believe he took other mens wives like some claim?

Most historians agree it was in the low 30's. Yes, some were already married, but they remained married to their first husbands.

The Wives of Joseph Smith

[marts1]

Thats a new one for me.

[JohnOF123]

Most historians agree it was in the low 30's. Yes, some were already married, but they remained married to their first husbands.

The Wives of Joseph Smith

I think I'd have to pack up my wife and make like a tree, heh.

Now you see me, now you don't.

"Hey where did that guy go, he was here just a minute ago."

[Vanhin]

4) The Fundamentalist LDS church behaves in radically perverted ways, yet still worships the same book and religious leaders. Why?

I'm not a proponent of the "fundamentalist" offshoots of the LDS Church, but what makes you think they "worship" the Book of Mormon or their religious leaders? Do you think that LDS worship the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith?

Regards,

Vanhin

[ttribe]

One post in numerous hours. I will be curious to see if this was a genuine level of interest or not.

[Mute]

Most historians agree it was in the low 30's. Yes, some were already married, but they remained married to their first husbands.

The Wives of Joseph Smith

Can you provide references? I had heard this as well but I never went through the trouble to verify it.

[pyxiwulf]

Most historians agree it was in the low 30's. Yes, some were already married, but they remained married to their first husbands.

The Wives of Joseph Smith

Interesting site. Now how does that work with the women still being married to their first husbands since women can't be polygamist? Or did I miss something major?

[Saguaro]

Can you provide references? I had heard this as well but I never went through the trouble to verify it.

Perhaps you didn't see the link to the website, here it is again:

The Wives of Joseph Smith

There are many references on the front page of this website under Bilbliography, including the Church's own familysearch.org (look up Joseph Smith, you can see him married/sealed to multiple women in his lifetime), as well as books including Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith". And at the bottom of the list of wives there's a link called "References" which lists each wife and corresponding references.

[Saguaro]

Interesting site. Now how does that work with the women still being married to their first husbands since women can't be polygamist? Or did I miss something major?

I'm no expert, but I believe when a woman is married to more than one man it is called polyandry.

[marts1]

Still not something we believe.

[ttribe]

Can you provide references? I had heard this as well but I never went through the trouble to verify it.

I'd take a look at these articles -FAIR Topical Guide: Polyandry

[ttribe]

I'm no expert, but I believe when a woman is married to more than one man it is called polyandry.

Correct - polyandry. Zina Young (second President of the Relief Society) would be one of the more notable individuals to fall into this category in the early days of the Church.

[ttribe]

Still not something we believe.

What do you mean?

[Saguaro]

Still not something we believe.

What don't we believe? It's historical fact that the church acknowledges.

Polygamy (Plual Marraige) - LDS.org

Here's a quote from the above link: "After God revealed the doctrine of plural marriage to Joseph Smith in 1831 and commanded him to live it, the Prophet, over a period of years, cautiously taught the doctrine to some close associates. Eventually, he and a small number of Church leaders entered into plural marriages in the early years of the Church."

I'm sorry if this is new to you or you find it disturbing, but it is a fact that Joseph Smith practiced plural marriage, and we gain nothing by denying or avoiding our own history. Of course the church discontinued the practice of plural marriage over 100 years ago.

[marts1]

I meant polyandry.