Separated, Getting Divorced, Confused....

[anonymousone]

My life the past 2 years have been pretty chaotic. I got out of school 3 years ago with my wife and started a shipping business which failed miserably. I had a little boy, yay!, he is a great source of joy. Just at the end of getting over this failed business, and saving up enough money to pay off the debts to my close friends and family (yes there are many creditors who aren't getting theirs, I'm most likely going bankrupt), my wife tells me she's had enough. Within 1 month of talking about planning for another kid she tells me it's the end of the road, divorce papers have already been signed and sent to me.

I have had my issues, I admitted to her that I looked at pornography one time at about 5 months, then again I admitted that I almost did about 5 times at about 1 yrs and 9 months (by almost I mean I would really want to, then I would look at something that would start to excite me but then I would stop out of disgust... yea I know sure it's just as bad.. but is it?), then as I was going through this insane attempt to get her to give me another chance at marriage I admitted to have been looking at porn for the past 6 months which is the only time I consistently looked at Porn in our marriage (2 months clean as of writing this). This is something that I have never lied to her about, and that I would do anything to clean up. The thought of her leaving me for this reason makes me want to slam my head repeatedly into a wall because I would do ANYTHING to stop if I knew it was getting that bad for her, I would never break up my little boy's family. I recognize it is an addiction, I'm extremely sorry for it, and would do anything to stop and am confident I can.

This 9 month period of pornography should've been stopped but I felt that telling her would make her want to divorce me, I had recently lost all trust in her as a supportive companion for other reasons.

That being said, this is not her main reason for divorcing me, she claims pornography is a "contributing factor." The reason I really, really lost trust in her is she began to basically turn on me. As the business went down I was trying to salvage it and she began telling people including friends and family that she felt "tricked." Tricked meaning she thought, and wished she was marrying Mr. Joe, the Banker working 9 - 5 and instead she married a very ambitious entrepreneur who wants to conquer everything on his own.

There's nothing I can do about that I told her, and to this day I don't know what I can do about being myself. I make money for my family, I'm sorry if my income can't be projected in 12 month increments of "raises" and "promotions". Because she couldn't change my lifestyle approach to providing she slowly and steadily began trying to change everything else she hated about me, until now she's told me that she hates "everything" about me, and that she never loved me, and that she wanted to call it off. She's told me as recently as a month ago that she doesn't think she would be divorcing me if I would've "gotten a job." In my financial defense, I still made about 35 Gs last year doing my businesses and I know I'll be doing quite well within a year or two, I just have to regroup.

This is an advice forum right, I'm going crazy right now, what am I supposed to do. Am I going to hell for looking at Porn because now my wife is divorcing me? Yes we were married in the temple, I've been active the whole time, I haven't read and prayed with her as much I should've I'm sure but I'm a willing participant! Have you guys been divorced? What about the sealing? Is it nullified because I've sinned or what?

It seems unreal to me, it would take so, so much more trauma for me to be willing to break up our family so I don't understand it. Whenever I tell her we should work it out she tells me she hates me and that she never wants to talk to me again. Did I mention she says I am "the exact opposite of everything I ever wanted in a husband."

Life is rough, thanks for letting me vent.

[Just_A_Guy]

I can't give much advice as to the marital issues, other than: do whatever is necessary to leave the pornography behind; regardless of what happens with the marriage.

I will say that with the financial issues: if you think you're going into bankruptcy, it's better if you do not begin paying off family members in advance. That's called a "preference to an insider", and your bankruptcy trustee can come after them for any money they've received from you over the past year. In fact, if you're sure you're going to declare bankruptcy then the only debts you probably should keep paying are a) the ones that keep getting you additional services you need (your divorce attorney, or the electric company, for example) or b) debts that are secured by property you want to keep after the bankruptcy (a car loan, for example).

[anonymousone]

Cool thanks for the advice, yea my lawyer told me about that preferential payment thing so I've got that figured out. Yea porno is on the outs for sure...

[mrmarklin]

You are not a porn addict. Most guys have looked at it whether they will admit it on this forum or not. So I don't perceive that as the real issue.

In fact the situation appears to be so complex that I don't have any answers for you at all.

BUT I will say this: get some sort of counselling. A good friend of mine was divorced twice before he sought counselling, and by following the counselor's advice and correcting some things about himself his third marraige has now lasted for over 25 happy years.

[marts1]

Your sealing will not be undone unless your wife makes a request and that will have to go through you. Most people have no idea the importance of reading or studying scripture. If you were to take at least 20 minutes a day and make a committment to do this from now on, your life will take a turn that will amaze you.

[JudoMinja]

I don't know what to tell you except that I'm getting a divorce due to abuse, and I would not have sought out divorce for anything less than this extreme. Even with the abuse, I wasn't willing to call the marriage quits until I realized the life of my son was in danger.

Some people are willing to call it quits for much smaller reasons. Me- I'm the kind of person that sees it through to the end. You made the commitment; you keep the commitment, and almost nothing is grounds to break it. That is why marriage should be entered with caution, with much thought and prayer. You don't want to rush into it and regret your decision. And for those already married, you don't cut it off or even threaten to cut it off for every little thing under the sun or even big things that could be worked out with understanding and compromise.

[georgia2]

your wife didn't develop these feelings overnight. Speaking as a woman, we usually try and try again until we feel that the attempts we are making or have made were not appreciated or reciprocated. When people have a young business that usually takes A LOT of time, in other words, not time with wife. Feelings of resentment over your business involvement could have grown in to what she calls hate because her needs weren't being met. Then when you confess to porn episodes, well, that's probably over the top. It is really insulting and humiliating for a woman for her husband to look at porn. It tears at her self esteem. It is almost as if her husband has affairs. Put yourself in her shoes. What if she didn't do the things you had expected all your life for a wife to do? Then, came and told you she had been confiding her needs, frustrations, and sexual desires with another man? Hmmmmm I can see how the hate word could come up!

Seems like all you can do now is be the man she thought she married. Be clean, see your Bishop, begin repentance in earnest. Go to counseling by yourself. Tell her you're trying and that you do want to be that man. If you do work for yourself, make sure you put her first and schedule time to devote to her. It may be too late. But all you can do is what's right. then let the chips fall. A divorce takes time. Maybe you can salvage something if you work hard enough.

[attainmentlife]

Hi Anon,

I am a marriage counselor, and I am sorry to hear of these problems. I help many people in your situation everyday, so please feel free to email me: [email protected]

Help is here, I hope that you reach back for it....

[Maureen]

...It is really insulting and humiliating for a woman for her husband to look at porn. It tears at her self esteem. It is almost as if her husband has affairs...

I totally disagree. Some women are very indifferent to what their husbands look at in a magazine. And I'm sure there exists women who look too.

M.

[marts1]

And I'm sure there exists women who look too.

If I knew my fiance was doing this for the wrong reason, I definitly would want to know before we get married.

[anonymousone]

your wife didn't develop these feelings overnight. Speaking as a woman, we usually try and try again until we feel that the attempts we are making or have made were not appreciated or reciprocated. When people have a young business that usually takes A LOT of time, in other words, not time with wife. Feelings of resentment over your business involvement could have grown in to what she calls hate because her needs weren't being met. Then when you confess to porn episodes, well, that's probably over the top. It is really insulting and humiliating for a woman for her husband to look at porn. It tears at her self esteem. It is almost as if her husband has affairs. Put yourself in her shoes. What if she didn't do the things you had expected all your life for a wife to do? Then, came and told you she had been confiding her needs, frustrations, and sexual desires with another man? Hmmmmm I can see how the hate word could come up!

Seems like all you can do now is be the man she thought she married. Be clean, see your Bishop, begin repentance in earnest. Go to counseling by yourself. Tell her you're trying and that you do want to be that man. If you do work for yourself, make sure you put her first and schedule time to devote to her. It may be too late. But all you can do is what's right. then let the chips fall. A divorce takes time. Maybe you can salvage something if you work hard enough.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure what you mean by "salvage something", it makes it seem like there are different degrees of what I can salvage. What are you referring to? The only thing that can happen is we get back together or we stay divorced... explain salvage something.

Also should the word "too late" be a reason. I haven't committed any cardinal breach of trust, I'm willing to do anything, "too late" is something that she's said and it's a selfish copout in my opinion.

You're right all I can do is what's right... it seems like all I can really do is hope and pray that she would love me, forgive me for my shortcomings, and follow the counsel of our prophets which is to support your husband and treat a temple marriage with a little more seriousness. I hadn't looked at porn the majority of our marriage and she knows it, I've explained it to her in detail.

I'm at the point now where I feel she is putting ridiculous demands on everything. I feel it's my choice to make money how I want to make money, I don't think any woman has the right to mandate that their husband do a job that would make them miserable, and as long as said husband is earnestly working to make a living (which I totally am in this case!) she should be supportive.

I see what you're saying about the word "hate" she is using and I totally understand any feelings about pornography and feeling rejected and like they were cheated on. I've told her I'd do all I could to clean that up but she said she doesn't care. Did I mention she told me "I used to fantasize that you'd cheat on me so I could have a reason to divorce you." Not sure what that's all about... maybe she never really did love me.

As you can probably tell from the tone of this message I'm really more concerned about my personal salvation at this point. It just seems so heavy being responsible for a divorce so I'm mulling over everything I've ever done wrong day in and day out weighing my responsibility for my daughter not having ideal parentage. It's pretty heavily on my mind and it weighs me down at times where it's hard to be productive... how am I supposed to deal with this? She definitely could buck up and go on with it, I feel she is being weak and it's hard for me to empathize with her now that she's cutting this marriage off at the knees and she's rejected all of my offers (they were very generous).

Also on another note. I've noticed this a lot from several of my acquaintances (all twenty somethings) who have been divorced... a lot of younger lds women these days come into a marriage with high expectations. In each case the women has gone on some emotional trip (2 were extremely emotional and just couldn't handle some aspect of the marriage with no major "sin" by either partner, one's parents encouraged her to divorce him because he was guilty of some type of moral transgression [no cheating according to him but this one might be his bad]). Maybe it's Young Women's teaching putting their hopes so high that anything short of it they can't handle. I don't know what it is. Honestly, it's really sad. I'm really sad about this. I never, ever, ever, ever would break up our little girls family so for her to give me these reasons it's just so confusing to me.

Thanks for y'alls advice.

Edited March 6, 2010 by anonymousone

[Maureen]

If I knew my fiance was doing this for the wrong reason, I definitly would want to know before we get married.

But it's okay with you if she looks for the right reason?

M.

[marts1]

If I asked her to wear blinders she would probably shoot me.:)

[Cassiopeia]

I'm so sorry you are going through all this. It's a really hard economy not only for business owners but for those seeking a job.

Sometime, it is the end of the road for someone and that doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault. I won't condone your looking at porn, that's clearly not the right thing to be doing. But if you are willing to stop that, which you said you are, and work on your marriage then this is something that is her issue and unless she works it out, there's nothing you can do about it.

I'm a firm believer in doing what you can do. You can't change her mind so all you can do is work on you. I think it's a really good idea to be doing positive things right now that uplift you and avoid anything that drags you downward.

Whatever you do, stay close to our Heavenly Father. All you have to do is ask for strength and guidance. He loves you and he's there for you.

Again, I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. Try to take things a day at a time.

ETA: I just read your post above and I'd like to caution you about staying or trying to stay with someone who says they fantasize about you cheating on them so they could divorce you. First of all, that's just down right cruel to say such a thing. And secondly, she wants out. Let her go. You need to find someone who doesn't resort to such hurtful things.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Cassiopeia

[funkenheimer]

It doesn't sound like your wife knew you very well before you were married. How long did you court before getting married (dating+engagement)? While you were dating did you work a normal 9-5 type job or were you self employed then as well? When you started the business did you discuss it with each other or was this mostly something you wanted to do and she just kind of tagged along? Once things started getting difficult did you sit down and discuss other options and possibilities?

[anonymousone]

It doesn't sound like your wife knew you very well before you were married. How long did you court before getting married (dating+engagement)? While you were dating did you work a normal 9-5 type job or were you self employed then as well? When you started the business did you discuss it with each other or was this mostly something you wanted to do and she just kind of tagged along? Once things started getting difficult did you sit down and discuss other options and possibilities?

You're definitely right about her not knowing me very well.

We dated for about 4 months, engaged for about 2 1/2, I was 22, she 21.

I never had a 9-5, I was going to school full time and was just figuring out what I wanted to do. I always did make money in creative ways but she definitely would've preferred me to have the more traditional 9-5 which is something I had to some degree planned on doing (who really knows what they are going to do in college? Not me). She definitely assumed this would've been the way I would've provided. So she was definitely tagging along rather than partnering up with me in my money making endeavors.

I had my own internet business while we were dating, while we were at school, and while we were doing the car business. In fact, I started the car business basically to add a practical product to what I was already doing, which is buying things and selling them online (yes cars are sold online these days!). I can see her assuming the online business was a car thing and I really wish that we could've somehow figured that out before we got married but neither of us really knew what we were getting into, probably just made assumptions.

Once things started getting difficult I was looking for anything and everything. We talked about me getting a 9-5 which I tried to do, visited several employment services, passed around the resume, but by that time the economy was in the crapper and I was making money with the online business so I felt better about putting my efforts there, she did not.

I guess she bit off more than she could chew with me. I understand that this issue of stability strikes to the very core of many women, and men, so I can't blame her for being turned off by that. I just can't wrap my head around any excuse to break up our babies upbringing, but then again I'm not her, I'm not an emotional person at best, and an emotional wreck at worst. I also don't believe in excuses or divorce, maybe I'm too much of an idealist. Things are getting a little easier with time... Thanks for y'alls concern.

[ladykemma2]

My life the past 2 years have been pretty chaotic. I got out of school 3 years ago with my wife and started a shipping business which failed miserably. I had a little boy, yay!, he is a great source of joy. Just at the end of getting over this failed business, and saving up enough money to pay off the debts to my close friends and family (yes there are many creditors who aren't getting theirs, I'm most likely going bankrupt), my wife tells me she's had enough. Within 1 month of talking about planning for another kid she tells me it's the end of the road, divorce papers have already been signed and sent to me.

I have had my issues, I admitted to her that I looked at pornography one time at about 5 months, then again I admitted that I almost did about 5 times at about 1 yrs and 9 months (by almost I mean I would really want to, then I would look at something that would start to excite me but then I would stop out of disgust... yea I know sure it's just as bad.. but is it?), then as I was going through this insane attempt to get her to give me another chance at marriage I admitted to have been looking at porn for the past 6 months which is the only time I consistently looked at Porn in our marriage (2 months clean as of writing this). This is something that I have never lied to her about, and that I would do anything to clean up. The thought of her leaving me for this reason makes me want to slam my head repeatedly into a wall because I would do ANYTHING to stop if I knew it was getting that bad for her, I would never break up my little boy's family. I recognize it is an addiction, I'm extremely sorry for it, and would do anything to stop and am confident I can.

This 9 month period of pornography should've been stopped but I felt that telling her would make her want to divorce me, I had recently lost all trust in her as a supportive companion for other reasons.

That being said, this is not her main reason for divorcing me, she claims pornography is a "contributing factor." The reason I really, really lost trust in her is she began to basically turn on me. As the business went down I was trying to salvage it and she began telling people including friends and family that she felt "tricked." Tricked meaning she thought, and wished she was marrying Mr. Joe, the Banker working 9 - 5 and instead she married a very ambitious entrepreneur who wants to conquer everything on his own.

There's nothing I can do about that I told her, and to this day I don't know what I can do about being myself. I make money for my family, I'm sorry if my income can't be projected in 12 month increments of "raises" and "promotions". Because she couldn't change my lifestyle approach to providing she slowly and steadily began trying to change everything else she hated about me, until now she's told me that she hates "everything" about me, and that she never loved me, and that she wanted to call it off. She's told me as recently as a month ago that she doesn't think she would be divorcing me if I would've "gotten a job." In my financial defense, I still made about 35 Gs last year doing my businesses and I know I'll be doing quite well within a year or two, I just have to regroup.

This is an advice forum right, I'm going crazy right now, what am I supposed to do. Am I going to hell for looking at Porn because now my wife is divorcing me? Yes we were married in the temple, I've been active the whole time, I haven't read and prayed with her as much I should've I'm sure but I'm a willing participant! Have you guys been divorced? What about the sealing? Is it nullified because I've sinned or what?

It seems unreal to me, it would take so, so much more trauma for me to be willing to break up our family so I don't understand it. Whenever I tell her we should work it out she tells me she hates me and that she never wants to talk to me again. Did I mention she says I am "the exact opposite of everything I ever wanted in a husband."

Life is rough, thanks for letting me vent.

from a woman's point of view...

someone is feeding her mind with foulness.

now, look at it - she is facing bankruptcy and a man who can't support her. how can you support her? what guarantees does she need that you can keep a roof over her and her kid's head? because right now you are a sinking ship and she needs to get into the lifeboat. are you are dreamer? are you? why should she stay?

if you agreed to get a 9 to 5 job, would this help? you can entrepeneur at night.

she has a part in this. she didn't get to know you very well and she either didn't listen or you didn't go to premarital counseling, did you?

[ruthiechan]

First and foremost, you need to talk to your Bishop.

Second, you can only change you.

However, I do not know what changes you can institute to help your wife. Only the Lord does. You need to fast and pray and read the scriptures like your life depends on it, and then do whatever it is the Spirit guides you to do. That way you will know you did all you can to save your marriage, and the divorce will be on her head if she still chooses that route.

It's going to be hard, and painful and long. But in the end, you can't take away your wife's agency. Pray for you to know what to do, what to say, how to say it, and when (sometimes the Spirit will tell me to keep my mouth shut). Pray for her, that she will be guided in doing what's best for the family.

I will pray for you two as well.

One thing that salvaged my marriage, aside from my doing the above, is that my husband and I were determined to stay friends for the sake of our daughter, no matter how things went between us.

Perhaps, she will be amenable to such a suggestion. If you choose to speak to her about at least staying friends, be sure to have the Spirit with you so that it may speak to her heart.

[anonymousone]

Update>

Still getting divorced. In response to the "are you a dreamer" from two messages ago. That's a funny question. What's the difference between a dreamer and an entrepreneur? The amount of money that s/he makes right now? I make more than the median income... so maybe I'm an entrepreneur with big dreams. A do-er... :)

The way I see it is you can have big dreams as long as you take care of your business, and I take care of my business.

Also I've done a lot of reflection and had a lot of talks with people about my wife's behavior. She has intense anxiety. She makes most decisions day-to-day based on anxiety. For example, she will avoid going to the store because of it. She will go, but it will be a big task that has to be mentally prepared for and she'll generally wait for me to get home so she can beg me to go with her.

I didn't realize it but this anxiety really is what destroyed the marriage. I mentioned earlier the financial struggles, I also mentioned that throughout these struggles I still managed to pay the bills and things are going well for me already. It's my understanding that anxiety will turn any basic worry into a HUGE problem... and that's totally what happened. Even though there was never anything wrong, she couldn't handle any situation. Everything was such a HUGE deal for her... which I'm realizing now (at the time I just accepted it and hoped for the best).

Any other advice on behavior and anxiety, and possibly its effects on marriage?

I would get back with her but honestly being with someone who has that high of anxiety and doesn't really think she has a problem probably won't be the best situation for me. It's hard for me to beg for someone to come back to me who I think has wronged me and is actually a pretty wack person. She's offended me deeply and she hates me... she I'm kind of over it. I almost feel selfish in feeling that way but at the same time what can I do to someone that says things like "now that I know I'm not spending the rest of my life with you I don't hate you." ?!?!?

Thx for y'alls advice

[justaname]

Sounds like you have your mind made up about the divorce thing. Nothing anyone in here can do about that. I just hope you guys both find someone else that can make you happy.

It sounds like you are still young and have your whole life in front of you. You obviously have dreams and ambitions. Its totally cool to have dreams, ambitions and goals. And Id recommend that you do anything you can to achieve them, as long as they are righteous! Im under the impression that many entrepreneurs are seeking wealth and financial freedom. We all want financial freedom, right? Nothing wrong with that. I hope to have it one day myself. But are you simply seeking wealth?

I KNEW what I was going to do since I was about 12 years old. I did all the right things to achieve my goal. I got the degree in the right field, built a good resume, added a useful foreign language, got in great physical shape, and kept my background clean. My patriarchal blessing even hints about what I should be doing. To make a long story short, I didnt get my dream job, and I have run out opportunities to do so. So now, Im working a 9-5er. Its not what I wanted to do "when I grew up", but its a job. There are days I dread another week here, and days that I watch the clock waiting to go home. I make about 75k a year, which is more than I would have made had I achieved my goals. As this has happened, I have come to realize that not everyone gets their dream job. Am I totally happy in my occupation? Nope, not at all. Do I want to do this for the rest of my life? Nope. But, I recognize that part of my role as a husband and father of 3 children is to provide for them. I might be miserable in my job for the next 20 years, but I have an amazing wife and awesome kids. I work to make them happy and to provide them an opportunity to achieve their dreams. I cant even imagine the stress I would endure hoping to make enough money to put food on the table or maintain a mortgage. Call me defeated or whatever, but my dreams are not to be temporally wealthy, but rather to have an eternal family. I absolutely will put my dreams and happiness as a very distant second to those of my family's.

Just my .02.

[Maureen]

IMO, anxiety problems can be the outcome of irrational fears. If she can't see that she doesn't have to go through this and she can get help; then I can imagine that she would be difficult to live with. Good luck anonymousone.

M.

[addicthelp]

anonymousone,

You asked, "Any other advice on behavior and anxiety, and possibly its effects on marriage?"

Anxiety can be related to soooo many things...but Yes, anxiety does effect marriages. Most surface issues of anxiety have links to past experiences and core personality issues dating back clear to childhood and upbringing. For example as a child or in growing up did she (or you) experience: verbally or physically abusive upbringing, entitlement/enablement, addiction, eating disorders, anger issues, depression, etc etc... Any of these issues will come to the surface in challenging times...times like you experienced in the past months. The anxiety and fears will literally tear individuals and couples apart as you have seen.

In working with addicts and couples with other issues, I have seen 2 scenarios unfold. (Note: I am assuming that the spouse with the "issue" is wanting to change and repair.)

1 - The spouse is super supportive and even though hurt from their companions behaviors, they want to work together to find healing. They usually do find healing as they work together.

2 - The spouse collapses and struggles to ever get up. They do not want to forgive or ever trust again. They cannot see anything good but only the negative and hurt. This is usually an inherent trait (with a history and not something new) and an issue that requires work and time from a counseling perspective.

I beleive that any 2 people can make it work......IF.......both partners are seriously willing to work. It is always a 2 way street. There is hope either way. If your spouse wants to get help than I suggest you do. If not, you are likely on the right path but that is your decision to make with the Lord.

So the questions are: Have you both made up your minds now to divorce and move on? Is your spouse willing to get help along side you?

[skippy740]

I know there have been some good suggestions in this thread for you.

Here's another thing to think about: How and where you spend and invest your time, effort, energy and money show where your priorities lie.

You may not be having an affair with another woman, but to your wife, she may feel just as "cheated upon" because of your "business mistress"? Add an addiction behavior on top of it... well, you can get the idea.

Remember: It's about QUALITY time with your business. Make every minute count. It's about QUANTITY time with your family. Don't mix the two up.

[anonymousone]

Thanks for everyone's replies. I appreciate your help/support/advice. I just re-read my last entry, I incorrectly wrote "I would get back with her but..." which made it seem like I could get back with her but I didn't/don't want to.

The fact of the matter is, I would get back with her right now, but I have run out of strength after getting rejected and offended by her after trying to get back with her that now I'm to the point where she would have to ask me... But without a doubt I would still get back together with her. I'm just much more practical about marriage and I believe that any two people can find a decent level of fulfillment together as long as they apply the gospel to their marriage. Just wanted to clear that up.

Also I recognize my responsibilities as a breadwinner. I do, however, feel that success in a profession and success in a marriage are not mutually exclusive. I find that many people who feel bored with their professional lives, or possibly that they've "failed" to reach their goals constantly bring up the fact that they have great marriages. I don't have any problem with that because we should always look at the positives in life. But the two are not mutually exclusive by any means. There are many who fail at both, and many who thrive in one, and fail in the other, and many who thrive in both.

I recognize that thriving in a family is 1st priority. One thing I've really come to terms with is the importance of pairing up life goals with a companion. I'm pretty confident I could've avoided this divorce had I been mature enough to know what I wanted out of life and expressed it to my prospective wife. I was 22 when I got engaged and 25 when this all went down, just 1 year out of college...

Life comes at you fast!

[anonymousone]

anonymousone,

So the questions are: Have you both made up your minds now to divorce and move on? Is your spouse willing to get help along side you?

I want to get back together and have expressed this to her many, many times along with many offers to do things she would like to see done. I'm afraid it's over though. I'm beginning to come to terms with it which I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing.