Community of Christ (RLDS/CoC) new revelation

[rameumptom]

The Community of Christ just finished their World Conference (held every 2 years). In it, all the priesthood quorums and other groups voted to approve a revelation received by Pres Veazey.

There are two portions in the revelation (now known as CoC's D&C 164).

1. It states that all baptisms are accepted, regardless of which Christian church they are done in. The individual would have to go through a learning process and then confirmed to receive the Holy Ghost before being considered a full fledged member of the CoC.

2. Gay individuals and marriages will be accepted by the CoC on a nation by nation basis. Those nations ready to accept gays can begin authorizing marriages, etc.

It seems that the CoC is definitely becoming more and more a liberal Christian Church, and further away from traditional Christian and LDS roots. In the past, they've changed Joseph Smith from a prophet of the Restoration to a charismatic leader; the Book of Mormon as an optional book of scripture; embraced the Trinity rather than the Godhead; and their one temple is primarily a meeting center. Definitely not the Church Joseph Smith developed in Nauvoo or in the earlier periods of the Church.

[Matthew0059]

I don't really know what to say. I'm really not surprised by this. Thanks for sharing, rameumptom.

[NeuroTypical]

You hemmorhage enough members, you start to get desperate to stop the bleeding.

[Just_A_Guy]

Whatever floats their boat, I guess.

The disturbing thing is how many ostensible Latter-day Saints are applauding this move at some of the bigger Mormon blogs.

[Matthew0059]

Whatever floats their boat, I guess.

The disturbing thing is how many ostensible Latter-day Saints are applauding this move at some of the bigger Mormon blogs.

I heard John Dehlin was ecstatic about it.

Support for blind ecumenicalism knows no religious bounds, unfortunately...

[Landy77]

Here is some history about RLDS.

Prior to 1960, much of the church’s identity had been tied to its differences with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. W.W. Smith traveled around the world on a missionary tour in 1960, an event that is seen as having greatly impacted the church. The church’s proselytizing with other world cultures in countries outside North America forced a re-assessment and a gradual evolution of its denominational practices and beliefs. The church expanded internationally during the presidency of W. Wallace Smith, especially in Africa and Asia. Apostle Charles Neff, a leading church missionary, pushed fellow leaders and field ministers towards tolerance, motivated by a combination of pragmatic missionary concerns and an attitude of theological openness. These moves of the Reorganized Church towards alignment with liberal Protestant doctrine were influenced in part by those in church leadership who pursued theological study at St. Paul School of Theology in Kansas City, Missouri, and elsewhere. They were also influenced by Roy Cheville, an educator and theologian whose efforts helped lay the foundation for an era of change.

In 1976, W. Wallace Smith designated his son Wallace B. Smith as his successor. Wallace B. Smith assumed the presidency in 1978 after a two-year transition period. W. Wallace Smith then retired and became the church's first president emeritus until his death in 1989. Wallace B. Smith introduced a program of church growth called Faith to Grow. This program identified seven commissions to be implemented in most congregations (leadership, stewardship, worship, Christian education, pastoral care, Zionic relations and missionary work). He also continued the progressive trend in the church and first suggested the change in its identity to the Community of Christ.

In 1984, Wallace B. Smith presented an inspired document, Section 156 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which called on the church to open priesthood ordination to women. The document also called upon the church to build a temple, dedicated to "peace, reconciliation and healing of the spirit" in Independence. When the temple was completed and dedicated on 17 April 1994, the headquarters of the church was transferred there from the Auditorium building across the street. Both buildings are on portions of the original Independence temple lot.

Former church historian Richard Howard commented that this period resulted in some "disaffection" and "led to intense conflict in scattered areas of the RLDS Church".

[cofchristcousin]

It's been a truly amazing transformation. We always believed these issues could never be discussed without tearing the church apart. Most people even in the US were against it. About a year ago a legal same sex marriage of church members in Iowa rocked the boat. Within months it became obvious that we would have to face the discussion because we would be torn apart if we avoided it any longer. About 20 pieces of legislation regarding same sex marriage and ordination were sent to this Conference by 11 different jurisdictions in the church. The Counsel was presented to us in January, and we had many congregational discernment and dialogue meetings since then. I am not at the Conference, but everyone reports a reverent, respecting Spirit attending the worship and legislative sessions, and calling us to deeper into Christ's Mission. The Counsel was accepted overwhelmingly, about 95% in favor.

Re: the idea that we are becoming a liberal church. I think our insights and seeking of Zion has much common ground with the Peace and Justice Churches more than Liberal theology churches. Theologically and politically, we probably have many more "conservative" members than "liberal". This conference we worked hard, striving to find ways to allow our diversity of belief and life circumstances to deepen, enrich and unite us, rather than divide us.

[cofchristcousin]

It's been a truly amazing transformation. We always believed these issues could never be discussed without tearing the church apart. Most people even in the US were against it. About a year ago a legal same sex marriage of church members in Iowa rocked the boat. Within months it became obvious that we would have to face the discussion because we would be torn apart if we avoided it any longer. About 20 pieces of legislation regarding same sex marriage and ordination were sent to this Conference by 11 different jurisdictions in the church. The Counsel was presented to us in January, and we had many congregational discernment and dialogue meetings since then. I am not at the Conference, but everyone reports a reverent, respecting Spirit attending the worship and legislative sessions, and calling us to deeper into Christ's Mission. The Counsel was accepted overwhelmingly, about 95% in favor.

Re: the idea that we are becoming a liberal church. I think our insights and seeking of Zion has much common ground with the Peace and Justice Churches more than Liberal theology churches. Theologically and politically, we probably have many more "conservative" members than "liberal". This conference we worked hard, striving to find ways to allow our diversity of belief and life circumstances to deepen, enrich and unite us, rather than divide us.

[Moksha]

Cofchristcousin, can you tell more about the similarity to Peace and Justice Churches?

This baptism in common would agree with PrisonChaplain's view that Christians are united as the body of Christ. Don't know if they would meet the other criteria for his checklist.

As far as that part of being Good Shepards to the spiritual needs of gay believers, I know this must seem alien and a betrayal to the LDS Church. We prefer to minister to the other 95 sheep if those five percent persist in bleating to a different bleat. However, if they refrain from such bleating, everything will be just fine.

[cofchristcousin]

Cofchristcousin, can you tell more about the similarity to Peace and Justice Churches?

We are emphasizing non-violence in conflict, learning dialogue and discerment skills that are used within the church, and sometimes offered to the larger community for divisive issues in local communities. We focus on the Gospel depictions of Jesus as reconciler and advocate for marginalized people.

This baptism in common would agree with PrisonChaplain's view that Christians are united as the body of Christ. Don't know if they would meet the other criteria for his checklist.

I think having baptism in common is going to shape us more than we realize. We no longer believe we are the one true church, and are discovering truths we missed because of that belief. We are in the process of joining the National Council of Churches to discover and share insights gained in the work of striving for reconciliation and unity, while respecting our diversity.

As far as that part of being Good Shepards to the spiritual needs of gay believers, I know this must seem alien and a betrayal to the LDS Church. We prefer to minister to the other 95 sheep if those five percent persist in bleating to a different bleat. However, if they refrain from such bleating, everything will be just fine.

I'm not sure what in the thread you are referencing here. Still, it is a concept near and dear to my heart. Community of Christ desires to be the brother/sister of all sheep. Here is an article of mine written a few years ago.

Luke 15 Reflections

This is from my journal, from August 2006. I was realizing that my life was taking a turn, that I would be coming out to my church for the first time. I tried to capture a snapshot of my feelings, and how I viewed the realities of being gay in my denomination. Since that time, I have processed my thoughts a bit more. These reflections remain true for me, but more like I’m looking through a wide angle lens. When I zoom in on individual relationships and encounters I can see that the larger picture is indeed moving–although very slowly–in the direction of love and grace.

For now, my silence buys me a place in the safety of the 99, but as I begin to speak my truth, I step into the vulnerability of that 100th sheep. The shepherds of our church are not really going to come looking for me, though. They say that they will stand with me, but only up until that point where they have to take a stand. Then, they will look away, pretend not to see, say a shamed prayer of petition that I will quietly leave.

I am not the coin of great worth. I am considered a prodigal, walking up the road to her spiritual home. But there are no servants of my God running to greet me, to welcome the authentic me home. I will be worshipping in the same house with the family of God, but to many will no longer be known as a sister. I don’t know what grace will be afforded me. I don’t know who will be able to accept my reality, my presence, my servanthood.

I do believe that our leaders long to be true to the call and obligations of the Kingdom, but the poverty of our spiritual lives limit that response. In the economy of our church today, it is the 99 sheep, not the Good Shepherd, who calculate the worth of the 1. The cost of accepting the truth of the outcast is too high to attempt. We will lose our illusion of unity, we will lose our ignorance of the boundaries we place on God’s love, we will lose our status within the Kingdoms of Christianity.

My shame is that I support this economy as well. I am not willing to endanger the body of Christ to save the outcast, even when it’s me. I am painfully aware that my actions and inactions are prolonging the estrangement of my gay brothers and sisters, and I knowingly compromise their worth for the non-confronted comfort of my congregation and denomination.

My prayer is that by becoming visible, I will help the church to better see Christ’s this-world redeeming love. In a way, I am the found, seeking to draw the 99 more fully into the Light of God’s grace.

[Landy77]

Honestly in my opinion the RLDS has sold its soul to appeal to more of the population in an effort to boost the membership. I am not out to bash anyone, but they might as well call themselves Scientologists right now.

[the Ogre]

You hemmorhage enough members, you start to get desperate to stop the bleeding.

My thoughts exactly.

[marts1]

In our eye's you are just another church, and what do we think of other church's? Do the best you can with what you have.

[Moksha]

. I am not out to bash anyone, but they might as well call themselves Scientologists right now.

That is interesting, since poster Cinepro on another forum has touted Scientology as being the 'canary in the mine' for Mormons.

[prisonchaplain]

Honestly in my opinion the RLDS has sold its soul to appeal to more of the population in an effort to boost the membership. I am not out to bash anyone, but they might as well call themselves Scientologists right now.

This conversation is so far outside the realm of my expertise...however, I take ChofChrist at her word when she says these issues were heart-felt, that there was much tought that went into them, and that the ultimate decisions were about much more than marketing and church growth. Whether we agree with the direction of another faith or not, we would be wise not to dismiss them with quick speculations about motives.

[pam]

Might I also remind people of our 11th Article of Faith. We also have a rule here about bashing our Church, let's give other Church' the same courtesy, whether you agree with them or not.

[rameumptom]

I know several CoC members. They are focused on loving people and seeking to help them find Christ as best as the individual can. While I prefer the LDS Church's current view on handling gay issues, I do think that the CoC's pastoral action is inspiring.

They are seeking to heal those around them, rather than divide. While we LDS may not agree with all of the specifics, the general idea is something we could definitely learn from.

[RanMan]

It's been a truly amazing transformation. We always believed these issues could never be discussed without tearing the church apart. Most people even in the US were against it. About a year ago a legal same sex marriage of church members in Iowa rocked the boat. Within months it became obvious that we would have to face the discussion because we would be torn apart if we avoided it any longer. About 20 pieces of legislation regarding same sex marriage and ordination were sent to this Conference by 11 different jurisdictions in the church. The Counsel was presented to us in January, and we had many congregational discernment and dialogue meetings since then. I am not at the Conference, but everyone reports a reverent, respecting Spirit attending the worship and legislative sessions, and calling us to deeper into Christ's Mission. The Counsel was accepted overwhelmingly, about 95% in favor.

Re: the idea that we are becoming a liberal church. I think our insights and seeking of Zion has much common ground with the Peace and Justice Churches more than Liberal theology churches. Theologically and politically, we probably have many more "conservative" members than "liberal". This conference we worked hard, striving to find ways to allow our diversity of belief and life circumstances to deepen, enrich and unite us, rather than divide us.

I have a question.

This seems like CoC is moving far from its LDS based roots. is this true? Does your faith now identify itself as something other than an LDS denomination?

Thanks

:)

[Landy77]

I know several CoC members. They are focused on loving people and seeking to help them find Christ as best as the individual can. While I prefer the LDS Church's current view on handling gay issues, I do think that the CoC's pastoral action is inspiring.

They are seeking to heal those around them, rather than divide. While we LDS may not agree with all of the specifics, the general idea is something we could definitely learn from.

That would be a charity, allowing gay marriage screams abomination. I am not saying CoC is an abomination, we do love our brothers and sisters that deal with being gay. We are not their judges to tell them where they will end up in judgment. I don't believe we are to restructure the scripture and practice of the church that reach back thousands of years. But to openly accept the behavior is to openly contradict the word of God. There is a big difference in accepting the behavior and accepting the person. I have read about the CoC and have visited the main site. Honestly I don't know what to say.

[cofchristcousin]

I have a question.

This seems like CoC is moving far from its LDS based roots. is this true? Does your faith now identify itself as something other than an LDS denomination?

Thanks

:)

Yes and no. We changed our name because we wanted in 2000 to Community of Christ because Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints no longer reflected our mission and now the CofC name allows us to form an identity based on who we are, rather than who we are not. We do not deny our history, but we are trying to break the grip of the romanticized version of our history most members have known.

Here is a blog conversation that answers lds questions about who we are becoming to be: Q & A – The Community of Christ and Latter-day Saints By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog

[Moksha]

As far as naming goes, I think the Community of Christ hit the jackpot of all church names. Still, our own name of The Church of Jesus Christ seems great too, even though the Latter-Day Saints part makes little or no sense to non-members.

[marts1]

even though the Latter-Day Saints part makes little or no sense to non-members.

Not for me. When I was searching for the church it was that latter day saint part of the title that made sense for me.

[rameumptom]

The reality is, the CoC is NOT the LDS Church. There is 150+ years separating us from one another.

Each of us has grown in different directions, as guided by their leadership. The CoC is seeking to be a more mainstream Christian Church and in some ways leave their restorationist roots behind. That is for them to choose for themselves, without any LDS condemning them for it.

LDS have chosen to retain SOME of our restorationist roots. However, the LDS Church today is very different from what it was a generation ago. Ending plural marriage everywhere (interestingly, the CoC allows it in nations where it is legal), first banning and then later restoring the priesthood to blacks, focusing somewhat less on the restoration and more on the atonement, and other such examples show where we have left our early roots.

Still, LDS today have a stronger restorationist viewpoint than the CoC as a whole. There are some CoC who still are strong believers in the BoM and in Joseph Smith as a prophet. However, the church has generally left those things to the individual to believe or not. Their main focus is unity in Christ.

[ZSEdwardson]

I as a rule do not bash another faith, and the CoC does many good things.

the CoC has had a major shifts in gernal policy, and I am not sure if I would call CoC as it now is formed "Latter Day Saints" (while some of the branches off the CoC are very LDS.) And I think the name change was the correct thing, as it fits it current setup much more then a RLDS did. the RLDS/CoC has had a lot of membership and money issues, and have been shifting to be just another church in the last 20 years.

as a note - I would say that "LDS" in a broad sense that I am using includes that the Book of Mormon is Scripture, and that Smith was a Prophet of god.

[Moksha]

The reality is, the CoC is NOT the LDS Church. There is 150+ years separating us from one another.

Excellent point. Even from the conception, they had a few differences such as the nonacceptance of polygamy and the racial ban. Without polygamy, no religious speculations regarding it were made about it and its requirement for exaltation, thus no ceremonial rites were required. Without the racial ban, it would only stand to reason that other views regarding fellow humans would evolve as well.