Planned in pre-existence or just bad luck?

[bytor2112]

I was watching a program about children born to mothers that were addicted to drugs. Awful deformities and mental defects. This got me thinking....was this a pre-planned event or just bad luck? Do you suppose that this person chose to be born in this manner by a drug addicted mother? If not, then that is a heck of a way to start mortal probation. Yeah, I know, there other examples of birth defects, BUT, what about the ones caused by the actions of the mother?

[Connie]

Are there other options perhaps? or are those the only two possibilities? something to think about.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I think this is another version of the "why do bad things happen to good people argument". So, we could answer:

1. It's the price of agency. People will make bad choices and hurt innocent people in the process.

2. As James E. Talmage said, "everything we suffer in this life has a compensating blessing in the next, provided the trial is met with patience". So the baby will likely be compensated for his or her suffering at some point. In the end it's a just world, notwithstanding the innocent suffering that may occur in it.

3. As a testimony against the wicked.

I'm not sure about the pre-mortal life connection. We know that people did good things in the premortal like and were therefore foreordained to have certain experiences in this life, but does it go as far as to see that certain people are punished in this life for premortal actions? I've never read anything authoritative on this subject.

[marts1]

One thing we know for sure is that one third recieved no tangible body as a result of rebellion, and are leading miserable existances.

[Zelduick]

It reminds me of an old movie we saw in a seminary class long ago (I vaguely remember it so this could be unaccurate), where this family was planning to get together on the planet and be together forever as a family, and then they get all these children but one, and suddenly they don't want another child (their decision), leading to the last child unable to come down to her family.

I'm just thinking that if this child that is born by an addicted mother, had been planning this with the mother before she was born, then it's the consequences of the mothers actions that has led to it.

[dazed-and-confused]

My thoughts as well, Zaduick. Pre-existance actually starts when? Mortal actions resulting in a mother becoming a drug addict and therefore delivering a deformed child probably started generations previous. So, do you wonder why catholics beleive in original sin?

On the other hand, the bible states clearly that the sins of the father (mother) takes three generations to aleviate, so it CAN be done.

[hordak]

Excluding a few "key players" i don't buy the idea that the premarital existence played/plays a part a part in this lifes birthing conditions. Every time i have heard the idea it has either been used to support the priesthood ban (I.E. "fence sitter doctrine") which has been reputed by newer Prophets or it is in a backwards way IMO "I was so good i was born LDS" which doesn't make sense if God wants all his children to return. I don't think he would give a "leg up" the best while making it harder on the others.

Besides if we had that much choice i would be Hordak William Gates Jr;)

[marts1]

It reminds me of an old movie we saw in a seminary class long ago (I vaguely remember it so this could be unaccurate), where this family was planning to get together on the planet and be together forever as a family, and then they get all these children but one, and suddenly they don't want another child (their decision), leading to the last child unable to come down to her family.

Been a long time since i've seen it but maybe that was 'My turn on earth'.

[Justice]

Or, Saturday's Warrior.

I think Heavenly Father is more in charge than we realize. This topic can get deep, but I think those who are born with birth defects, such that limit their ability to choose, were among those who just needed a body. Some of them came to earth and were tried and tested and became prophets and such, but others had to fill this particular role. My belief is they are among the noble and great ones that were in the pre-mortal existence.

[not_ashamed]

I don't believe it's chosen, just the way the cards fell. Or maybe if it was chosen, we saw something about that person in the pre-mortal existence that they lost once here.

[Guest mysticmorini]

both "my turn on earth" and "saturday's warrior" lead to a lot of false doctrine. do you really believe that any of us were wise enough in the pre-existence to choose our parents? I think it is far more likely that heavenly father placed us in the conditions we could best handle based on our talents and abilities and on what we need to learn.

[Traveler]

I was watching a program about children born to mothers that were addicted to drugs. Awful deformities and mental defects. This got me thinking....was this a pre-planned event or just bad luck? Do you suppose that this person chose to be born in this manner by a drug addicted mother? If not, then that is a heck of a way to start mortal probation. Yeah, I know, there other examples of birth defects, BUT, what about the ones caused by the actions of the mother?

I believe that everything that happes has a cause and that all causes were known in the pre-existance and planned for (See Escl 1 9-11)

The Traveler

[Traveler]

both "my turn on earth" and "saturday's warrior" lead to a lot of false doctrine. do you really believe that any of us were wise enough in the pre-existence to choose our parents? I think it is far more likely that heavenly father placed us in the conditions we could best handle based on our talents and abilities and on what we need to learn.

I believe in the agency of man. I do not believe Father placed us anywhere without our input and acceptance. Even in calling no one serves without being sustained.

The Traveler

[Intrigued]

It's much simpler to assume that it is bad luck. Why make it more complex than it has to be? If it helps you cope.. continue to think that they were special in some way. God is no respecter of people, if I recall.

[marts1]

I do not believe in luck, good or bad. :)

[Hemidakota]

I was watching a program about children born to mothers that were addicted to drugs. Awful deformities and mental defects. This got me thinking....was this a pre-planned event or just bad luck? Do you suppose that this person chose to be born in this manner by a drug addicted mother? If not, then that is a heck of a way to start mortal probation. Yeah, I know, there other examples of birth defects, BUT, what about the ones caused by the actions of the mother?

Was it planned? Or does it have to do with our calling previously in where we are sent and when we are sent to this world? I have met a teenager who was not only incestial abused, beaten many times by a drunken father, and he still loved his father who did this to him. At the age of twelve, he was the father to the siblings and taken over the family. When sitting in his presence, was no different than sitting with a prophet of the Lord. You can feel his emitting love for others; as if he was Christ.

What really matters is what we do here in correcting the deficiencies of our mortal state, improving our talents, and becoming a member who builds the kingdom to Christ. Even I now don’t questioned why I was born outside of the covenant when now I know whom I am and my own purpose of what was, what is, and what shall be. It was the Savior who chooses this path for us and made it happen. It then becomes our choice of coming or not coming to this earth.

[Hemidakota]

I do not believe in luck, good or bad. :)

Exactly....

[marts1]

I think that we are all placed in the best circumstances according to who we are. The problem is if you do not react wisely then trouble results. I'm sure that if we all lived to a certain righteousness we would all see how we were blessed to be where we are.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I was watching a program about children born to mothers that were addicted to drugs. Awful deformities and mental defects. This got me thinking....was this a pre-planned event or just bad luck? Do you suppose that this person chose to be born in this manner by a drug addicted mother? If not, then that is a heck of a way to start mortal probation. Yeah, I know, there other examples of birth defects, BUT, what about the ones caused by the actions of the mother?

We know that where much is given much is required. But one thing we can say is that we have no way to judge the value of another's position. We can't say that surviving an abusive family environment and coming out of that situation is more or less valuable to that spirit's progression than a child that grows up in a loving supportive family because we don't understand all the variables that go into those situations and what lessons each individual is supposed to learn.

There are two important points to keep in mind; (in my opinion)

1. Nobody descends as low as Christ. No matter how bad their situation is.

2. This life is extremely short. It's like deciding who you are going to spend a 1 week summer camp with, in the big picture. I don't think in the pre-existence we looked at it with such concern as we now see it.

[marts1]

This life is extremely short. It's like deciding who you are going to spend a 1 week summer camp with, in the big picture. I don't think in the pre-existence we looked at it with such concern as we now see it.

Or perhaps we realised the extreme importance of this mortal life seeing how it would determine how the rest of our existance was going to play out.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Or perhaps we realised the extreme importance of this mortal life seeing how it would determine how the rest of our existance was going to play out.

I think we felt that way about what we do with the lot we are given but not so much about what family we were sent to.

That would be like saying a person would be concerned more about what version of the final exam they got over simply doing well on it.

I believe we all knew how important this life is before we came here, for sure. But, I don't think we could comprehend the difficulty of certain situations over others. I also don't think we had the ability to discern the ability of a fellow spirit to make correct choices in this life. How would you know that your future mother (if we knew that) would choose to do drugs during her pregnancy before coming here?

[marts1]

I have no opinion on whether or not we had any say or desire who are parents might might be but I think we might have made friends there in which we might have wanted to connect here with them.

[Hemidakota]

We know that where much is given much is required. But one thing we can say is that we have no way to judge the value of another's position. We can't say that surviving an abusive family environment and coming out of that situation is more or less valuable to that spirit's progression than a child that grows up in a loving supportive family because we don't understand all the variables that go into those situations and what lessons each individual is supposed to learn.

There are two important points to keep in mind; (in my opinion)

1. Nobody descends as low as Christ. No matter how bad their situation is.

2. This life is extremely short. It's like deciding who you are going to spend a 1 week summer camp with, in the big picture. I don't think in the pre-existence we looked at it with such concern as we now see it.

I am not here to advocate any person better than our beloved Elder brother, but those who had the witnessed the Godhead and apostatize to the point of now in fighting against Truth will descend below this mark for eternality. It maybe semantics of words, but something to be aware of.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I am not here to advocate any person better than our beloved Elder brother, but those who had the witnessed the Godhead and apostatize to the point of now in fighting against Truth will descend below this mark for eternality. It maybe semantics of words, but something to be aware of.

True, but not in this life.

[Blackmarch]

I was watching a program about children born to mothers that were addicted to drugs. Awful deformities and mental defects. This got me thinking....was this a pre-planned event or just bad luck? Do you suppose that this person chose to be born in this manner by a drug addicted mother? If not, then that is a heck of a way to start mortal probation. Yeah, I know, there other examples of birth defects, BUT, what about the ones caused by the actions of the mother?

We are told to acknowledge God's hand in all things... however often God does not tell us how he uses his hand in those things.

Simply put, I don't know.

However my guess would be

1) It is not left completely up to chance.

2) God does not or will not eliminate consequence of action (at least without really good or really specific reasons).