Word of Wisdom and Obesity?

[martybess]

PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS WRONG PPL/

I'm wondering why the church doesn't take a stronger stand ON obesity. Is it not important in G-d's eyes that we take care of ourselves? Please don't get me wrong here, I'm just wondering because it seems contrary to the laws of health?? At what point do we cross the line? 300lbs? Can I feel I'm going to make it if I can't control my eating. Does it all boil down to how I feel about myself?

..

[Gwen]

this is a subject that has been debated more than once. may want to search some of the older threads.

i think one of the reasons fat ppl are not admonished as "breakers of the word of wisdom" is there are many many reasons ppl can be obese and not following the word of wisdom is only part of it, conscious personal actions are only part of it. you don't know why someone is the way they are or how much control they have over it. being fat takes a toll of it's own, you hate how you are without being told how ugly you are in the sight of the lord as well. it's not necessary to make such accusations and it does nothing to move the gospel forward. to be an alcoholic you have to partake of alcohol at some point. i have to make a conscious decision to act in a way that brings that burden upon my body. to be obese all i had to do was try to follow the lord by having children. the act itself of having children messed up my hormones to the point that it didn't matter what i did i could not lose weight. i often wondered, especially after reading comments about it being against the word of wisdom, why god would do that. he will tell me to have kids and then let that process mess my body up in such a way that it was destroying me. was having kids against the word of wisdom? i could never understand why god would want to do that. why i would be punished for doing what i was supposed to do. i still don't know. but if i had to go to church and listen to ppl harp on how being fat is a sin or have my temple recommend in question for something i had no control over. i would have left the church.

i have a question. when i hear these statements and i can see the person making them they are almost always skinny and have never had weight issues. why is it so important to skinny ppl that fat ppl feel like their very existence is sinning?

[Hemidakota]

PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS WRONG PPL/

I'm wondering why the church doesn't take a stronger stand ON obesity. Is it not important in G-d's eyes that we take care of ourselves? Please don't get me wrong here, I'm just wondering because it seems contrary to the laws of health?? At what point do we cross the line? 300lbs? Can I feel I'm going to make it if I can't control my eating. Does it all boil down to how I feel about myself?

..

Interesting...thanks for bringing this up. [tagged to listen]

[Wingnut]

this is a subject that has been debated more than once. may want to search some of the older threads.

I think Pam closed the last thread that was started on the subject after less than a page, just to avoid the same contention that always exists on this topic.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Wingnut
typo

[martybess]

this is a subject that has been debated more than once. may want to search some of the older threads.

i think one of the reasons fat ppl are not admonished as "breakers of the word of wisdom" is there are many many reasons ppl can be obese and not following the word of wisdom is only part of it, conscious personal actions are only part of it. you don't know why someone is the way they are or how much control they have over it. being fat takes a toll of it's own, you hate how you are without being told how ugly you are in the sight of the lord as well. it's not necessary to make such accusations and it does nothing to move the gospel forward. to be an alcoholic you have to partake of alcohol at some point. i have to make a conscious decision to act in a way that brings that burden upon my body. to be obese all i had to do was try to follow the lord by having children. the act itself of having children messed up my hormones to the point that it didn't matter what i did i could not lose weight. i often wondered, especially after reading comments about it being against the word of wisdom, why god would do that. he will tell me to have kids and then let that process mess my body up in such a way that it was destroying me. was having kids against the word of wisdom? i could never understand why god would want to do that. why i would be punished for doing what i was supposed to do. i still don't know. but if i had to go to church and listen to ppl harp on how being fat is a sin or have my temple recommend in question for something i had no control over. i would have left the church.

i have a question. when i hear these statements and i can see the person making them they are almost always skinny and have never had weight issues. why is it so important to skinny ppl that fat ppl feel like their very existence is sinning?

You assume I'm not fat? I see this is something I will have to take one myself. Sorry if I have offended you.

[mnn727]

This has been discussed and debated and argued a number of times here with most of the threads being locked eventually.

There are as many reasons for obesity as there are obese people, to make a "one size fits all" rule or statement would be absurb. Its not as simple as prohibiting something. Much easier to give up coffee or cigarettes than it is for many people to loose weight. You can give up smoking cold turkey and never have another cigarette. You can give up coffee, tea, booze, etc and never have another. but you will always have to eat.

[hordak]

I think Pam closed the last thread that was started on the subject after less than a apge, just to avoid the same contention that always exists on this topic.

I think it is a shame that people take this issue so personally (and people would personally attack the obese.

The fact is Obesity is an addiction that damages the brain and body same as drugs.

From the churches sight on combating porn

Significantly, we now see with each of the above tools the changes in brain chemistry occurring in both drug and natural addictions. We see fMRI changes not only in drug addictions such as cocaine,12 but also in natural addictions such as pathologic gambling.13 Dopamine receptor depletion is seen in drug addiction14 and in the natural addiction of obesity.15

Brain shrinkage has been seen in drug addictions such as cocaine16 and methamphetamine,17 but also in natural addictions such as obesity18 and more recently, sexual addiction.19 Studies are currently underway to examine shrinkage specifically in pornography addiction.

Personally i hate this disease , not the victims in the same way i had drug addiction.Not druggies.

That said i don't think the church can take a stand on it because it's not just one cause as gwen pointed out, and the churchs stands are pretty black and white.

[Gwen]

the ppl i have talked to in person and i know what they look like have all been skinny. i did clarify that. i don't know about the online ppl. i'm not offended but you have to understand the many many times this has come up and the very rude manor in which it is often discussed. you knew that when you posted or you would not have started with don't take this the wrong way. any time i feel the need to preface something that way i always hesitate and ask is that possible, is this really worth asking, etc. if you have to say it then it's probably offensive.

i do have to wonder why you ask the question. especially if you are fat. if you know exactly what the struggle is and how unhealthy some ppl will treat their bodies (not within the word of wisdom) to not be fat anymore then you should understand why it's not helpful for the church leadership to harp on it. do you think having your temple recommend threatened will help you succeed in weight loss? i would really like to understand the background behind the question.

[Hemidakota]

I think it is a shame that people take this issue so personally (and people would personally attack the obese.

The fact is Obesity is an addiction that damages the brain and body same as drugs.

From the churches sight on combating porn

Personally i hate this disease , not the victims in the same way i had drug addiction.Not druggies.

That said i don't think the church can take a stand on it because it's not just one cause as gwen pointed out, and the churchs stands are pretty black and white.

Hardache it is, some of the brethren themselves, need to follow this advice then. I just don't know if they have the time to worry about their weight, exercising, and what to eat on the road.

[martybess]

Personally i hate this disease , not the victims in the same way i had drug addiction.Not druggies.

That said i don't think the church can take a stand on it because it's not just one cause as gwen pointed out, and the churchs stands are pretty black and white.

I guess I should of did a search first to see this is a volatile subject indeed. Thanks for the point about it not being black and white.

..

Edited May 26, 2010 by martybess

[Hemidakota]

the ppl i have talked to in person and i know what they look like have all been skinny. i did clarify that. i don't know about the online ppl. i'm not offended but you have to understand the many many times this has come up and the very rude manor in which it is often discussed. you knew that when you posted or you would not have started with don't take this the wrong way. any time i feel the need to preface something that way i always hesitate and ask is that possible, is this really worth asking, etc. if you have to say it then it's probably offensive.

i do have to wonder why you ask the question. especially if you are fat. if you know exactly what the struggle is and how unhealthy some ppl will treat their bodies (not within the word of wisdom) to not be fat anymore then you should understand why it's not helpful for the church leadership to harp on it. do you think having your temple recommend threatened will help you succeed in weight loss? i would really like to understand the background behind the question.

251 lbs, 70-inches [height]. I am beast...I'm mean obese.

[martybess]

i do have to wonder why you ask the question. especially if you are fat. if you know exactly what the struggle is and how unhealthy some ppl will treat their bodies (not within the word of wisdom) to not be fat anymore then you should understand why it's not helpful for the church leadership to harp on it. do you think having your temple recommend threatened will help you succeed in weight loss? i would really like to understand the background behind the question.

Gwen,

I do agree most who have negative comments about obesity have never had to deal with it but this says nothing about the millions who do have to deal with it. I just wanted to know why it's not talked about more by the church but now I know why.

[Hemidakota]

I have been looking through the many previous talks and this is what is found when I use the word "OBESE:"

My Obsession with Food

in Aleta Goodman Breakwell, Ensign, 2002, Oct.

...’t eat, to claim that overeating is the sole cause of obesity is an oversimplification. In 1995 the Institute of Medicine reported that ... 1 Many research studies suggest that obesity is capable of being inherited. For example, studies of adoptees show...

Running Away from It All

in S. Scott Zimmerman, Ensign, 1981, Feb.

... eat, to claim that overeating is the sole cause of obesity is an oversimplification. Let me cite seven ...1. A study has shown that most obese people don’t eat more...Hallberg (In discussion of surgical treatment of morbid obesity), Arch. Surg. 106 (1973): 437....

I Have a Question

in , Ensign, 1975, June

... a correlation between high blood pressure and obesity, which probably accounts for the greatly increased death rate ... times more common in this group. In addition to the above problems, an obese person is often unhappy with himself and his appearance, ...

Don’t Eat Your Heart Out

in Ronald L. Rhodes, Ensign, 1975, Oct.

...western gourmand’s diet is not malnutrition, but overeating. Obesity (loosely defined as weight exceeding the recommended standard for sex... better nutrition but, more importantly, to reduce the incidence of obesity and its associated problems. Let’s take a ...

The Weight-Loss Battle: Helping Your Body Win

in Garth Fisher, Ensign, 1984, Aug.

...others. For many years, our prescription for obesity has simply been to decrease food...conserve energy. In any case, many obese people are less active than their...years ago a researcher showed that extreme obesity can be elicited in rats by raising the fat...

What's on TV Tonight?

in Larry A. Tucker, Ensign, 1988, Feb.

... that as television viewing time increased, prevalence of obesity and super-obesity increased. Frequent television watchers were ... 35. See Larry Tucker, “Television Viewing and Obesity in Adult Males,” unpublished ms. 36. William Dietz ...

Staying Healthy: Welfare Services Suggests How

in , Ensign, 1981, Jan.

... note that 80 percent of overweight adolescents face obesity in adulthood. It is important, for that reason, to help children develop food habits that will protect them from becoming obese in the future. Q. How can I lose weight safely?...

The Thinness Obsession

in Harold A. Frost, Ensign, 1990, Jan.

... (This may explain why many anorectics see themselves as obese even when they are emaciated.) Another common problem caused by ... Handbook of Eating Disorders: Physiology, Psychology, and Treatment of Obesity, Anorexia, and Bulimia (New York City: Basic ...

Research and Perspectives: Tobacco Is Not for the Body

in Larry A. Tucker, Ensign, 1991, June

... Smokers Different from Adolescent Nonsmokers? • They tend to be more obese and less physically fit. • They tend to view more ... 174. Tucker, L. A. “Cigarette Smoking Intentions and Obesity among High School Males.” Psychological Reports 52 (1983...

Keeping Physically Fit

in Clarence F. Robison, Ensign, 1972, Sept.

..., leaving it vulnerable to many illnesses and diseases. One of the major health problems of many persons is that ofobesity or overweight. This is particularly true of middle-aged and older persons. The systems of the body all require oxygen and ...

[martybess]

I emailed Pam to delete this thread.....nothing good is going to come from it. I was not attacking anyone I apologize for asking one of the questions that you just don't ask.. :)

[Hemidakota]

News of the Church

in , Ensign, 1974, Nov.

...in the Salt Palace showed sample visual aids for each lesson to be presented in each department. For instance, one display on obesity showed a one-pound chunk of suet being regarded by an anxious heart; the heart was asking, “One mile of capillaries? Three...

Mocking Our Brother

in Gary L. Bunker, Ensign, 1975, Apr.

...1–2 .) And goodness is neither exclusive in spirit nor condescending in nature. Physical Condition Acne, obesity, skin color, physical handicaps, mental retardation, and other physical problems frequently elicit unkind remarks or misunderstandings....

Good Health— A Key to Joyous Living

in Sister Barbara B. Smith, Ensign, 1978, Nov.

... earth are “to be used, with judgment, not to excess” ( D&C 59:20 ). Health experts say that obesity constitutes a major health problem. Being overweight increases the risk of many diseases and creates physical discomfort as well as psychological burdens....

The Strait Gate

in Sterling W. Sill, Ensign, 1980, July

... discipline. When one’s dietary way is made broad enough to include three pieces of pie, the cause is placed in jeopardy. If obesity is to be controlled, certain food items must be placed out of bounds. Limitations must be placed on intake, and a tighter ...

Comment

in , Ensign, 1981, Apr.

... percent of healthy people in the Western world, the concern should be more about exercise, smoking, emotional stress, genetics, obesity, etc., than about dietary cholesterol and saturated fats such as found in eggs, butter, and meat. E. Grant Moody, ...

Comment

in , Ensign, 1990, June

... counseling, avoid creating guilt or shame by suggesting one is ruining her health by her behavior. It is like telling an obese person that he is destroying his health by overeating. Intellectually he or she understands this, but the feelings underlying ...

The Body, a Sacred Gift

in Diane L. Spangler, Ensign, 2005, July

... your struggle is particularly significant and you have a problem such as anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, morbid obesity, or substance addiction, you may require assistance from mental health or medical professionals. However, seeking to understand the ...

Missionary Health Preparation

in Donald B. Doty, M.D., Ensign, 2007, Mar.

... Missionary Department requires that missionaries have a body mass index no higher than 37. This is actually on the border between obesity and morbid obesity. Prospective missionaries should strive to keep their weight in the normal range, thereby avoiding...

[Maureen]

I emailed Pam to delete this thread.....nothing good is going to come from it... :)

What about Posts #13 and #15?

M.

[Hemidakota]

I emailed Pam to delete this thread.....nothing good is going to come from it. I was not attacking anyone I apologize for asking one of the questions that you just don't ask.. :)

No need to make any apology. I consider myself overweight and in the process of life insurance renewal right now. Looking at the exam results from the first round insurance policy replacement, I learn what should be the ideal weight versus body measurement, including bad cholesterol count.

All of my children are runners [track and field, cross country etc..] According to one of my daughters, "Dad, I don't want you to die with this body and be in the same group as Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Wilford Woodruff, John Taylor...". I agreed with her and now make it point to alter my dietary habits and wala - lost over 9-lbs in two weeks.

[Happiness3]

This is an interesting topic. Honestly... when I was considering returning to church, I truly loved coffee--everything about it--and in my mind I questioned things that are not mentioned in the WoW that can be bad for you (and even addicting), for example desserts, jello, etc. and I've wondered if the Word of Wisdom was written today-would it be different...

Anyhow, the WoW encourages the church members to be health conscious. Not to mention that we've been taught that our bodies are temples--Maybe if anything additional were to be emphasized-instead of focusing on the weight issue, it would encourage physically activity.

[martybess]

What about Posts #13 and #15?

M.

Hemi's posts are going to be taken wrong though they are good. I should of done the same thing he did and look directly to what the church is doing and saying.

[martybess]

I've wondered if the Word of Wisdom was written today-would it be different...

Basically what I was wondering but maybe it would of been to complex and thus general guidelines were given.

[Gwen]

i don't think hemi's posts will be taken wrong. what they do say is it is talked about apparently more than ppl realize. i don't see any reason for this tread to be closed at this time.

marty, i apologize if i came off as harsh. i'm really not offended and have no ill feelings toward anyone.

[rameumptom]

It's basically an issue of the Word of Wisdom being a minimal standard as the Church uses it. It is easy to track smoking or drinking. It is difficult to determine whether a person is 300 pounds because of over-eating or because of a health condition. The Church can encourage people toward good health, but should not become the health cops some would have them become.

Modern revelation teaches that we should not be commanded in all things. Instead, we should do many good works of our own accord. That said, we can all directly ask God what he would have us do for our own health, and then listen to where the Spirit directs us.

[Maureen]

...It is difficult to determine whether a person is 300 pounds because of over-eating or because of a health condition....

Unless they're anywhere from 7' 8'' to 8' 8" tall. :)

M.

[pam]

I emailed Pam to delete this thread.....nothing good is going to come from it. I was not attacking anyone I apologize for asking one of the questions that you just don't ask.. :)

Not sure where you sent a message to. I've received no message.

[Blackmarch]

PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS WRONG PPL/

I'm wondering why the church doesn't take a stronger stand ON obesity. Is it not important in G-d's eyes that we take care of ourselves? Please don't get me wrong here, I'm just wondering because it seems contrary to the laws of health?? At what point do we cross the line? 300lbs? Can I feel I'm going to make it if I can't control my eating. Does it all boil down to how I feel about myself?

..

I'm not taking this wrong. this is a good question.

because there is not just one or two reasons why obesity occurs... there are a lot of variables that contribute, some are more controllable than others.

Some fall under the WoW, some don't.

However I should point out that church leaders have been telling us for some time now to live within our means, use moderation in our diet, turn off the TV and computer and do something productive- all which have impacts on our general health.

a major portion of our lives we are learning how to discipline ourselves and we all have our weaknesses where the disciplines we develop seem to fail.. for some it may be eating, for others it may be binging, or drugs, porn, lieing, laziness, pride, or being obedient... we all have our problems and to us they will seem to be the largest obsticles in the world.

I think one of the hardest things to over come is that we value how others see us or want us to be too much, and stumble because of it.

If a person thinks they are over-weight and wants to know they should see a medical specialist that deals with that sort of things... if they want to change then they should probably be willing to take the advice of that specialist gives and do it.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Blackmarch