What to do about illegal immigration?

[Just_A_Guy]

Using E-Verify isn't that big of a hurdle above and beyond the other hoops employers must jump through; and it would be a simple matter (if it hasn't already been done) to draft an exception so that families hiring neighbor kids or what-have-you don't get hit by it.

I've not heard of anyone suffering third-party liability because they hired a contractor who, in turn, employed illegal immigrants; and even if this does happen--it could be relatively easily fixed by statute.

There are many who over-simply this discussion, but we also need to be careful not to over-complicate it. It's not that there's no way to solve the problem; it's just that as a nation we aren't really sure we want to solve it.

[HoosierGuy]

A few things - the people in Arizona seem to be stressing they are checking anybody who looks or acts like they could be an illegal immigrant. But we all know they are after Mexicans and only Mexicans. We are not being invaded by Germans or French or Italians or Nigerians or even Japanese or Australians, it is Mexicans. Why beat about the bush? Lets be honest about this thing - if you look Hispanic you are going to get checked! Of course there are many dark skinned people, like Italian Americans, who could fall under this and get checked.

Is it fair to them? Nope.

Another thing - conservatives like to cry their freedoms are being taken away by big bad big government. Remember it is conservatives who are behind this issue in Arizona. They are the ones forcing you (supposedly all of you) in Arizona to prove you are a U.S. citizen. So now you HAVE to carry around proof if citizenship? Is this not the beginnings of the government tracking you, constantly watching? You have to always have your ID when you walk the streets or your could get thrown in jail for being an illegal. Always have to have an ID. Reminds me of a certain people being forced to ID themselves in Germany seventy or so years ago.

How come I hear people crying to the Federal government to do something but none of them suggest sending the U.S. military down there and shutting off the border? Come on! I want to hear one conservative say - Send the military down there!

[Moksha]

But we all know they are after Mexicans and only Mexicans.

Yet we all know Arizona's northern border is leaking like a sieve,

letting Utahans and Coloradoans in right and left. How do they

propose to fix that problem? Check all travelers who look a pasty

white from those long winter months?

[Just_A_Guy]

Lets be honest about this thing - if you look Hispanic you are going to get checked!

Your source for that being what, exactly?

They are the ones forcing you (supposedly all of you) in Arizona to prove you are a U.S. citizen. So now you HAVE to carry around proof if citizenship?

No, actually. Have you read the bill?

Is this not the beginnings of the government tracking you, constantly watching? You have to always have your ID when you walk the streets or your could get thrown in jail for being an illegal.

I don't know who told you this, HoosierGuy, but they were lying.

How come I hear people crying to the Federal government to do something but none of them suggest sending the U.S. military down there and shutting off the border? Come on! I want to hear one conservative say - Send the military down there!

How about two pundits and a President?

[john doe]

I do agree with the idea of eliminating instant citizenship for children of illegals born here. I think this would help a lot of the overcrowding in border hospitals.

I've worked on farms before. I've worked side-by-side with aliens, both legal and illegal. The legal immigrants work just as hard as the illegals. Farmers prefer the legals, they are less trouble and hassle, and more dependable, in my experience. Most of the illegals I met would have liked to be here legally, even as seasonal guest workers. From what I was told, it is incredibly difficult for them to get seasonal work visas, and there are far too few to go around.

I would be amenable to issuing seasonal guest worker visas, with these requirements as a start:

*The person must pass a criminal background check, here in the US, through Interpol records, and in their home country. Any felony-grade crime would automatically make them ineligible. This would be checked yearly, and the applicant would be responsible for the cost of the check.

*The person would not be able to be here for more than 6 months of any 12-month period.

*The worker would be issued a laminated work permit with a tax number, fingerprint, and picture on it. He must carry it with him as identification, just as I must carry a license to drive.

*Employers would be allowed to hire them, but no more than 50% of his employees could be holders of these permits.

*All federal, state, and local taxes would be collected, except for Social Security taxes. The workers with the cards would never be eligible for Social Security for wages earned while holding the permit.

*Employers who hire undocumented workers or too many seasonal permit workers would face stiff penalties, enough to it not worth it to violate the law.

*The card would be revoked upon conviction of any crime.

Those are just initial ideas off the top of my head, I would be willing to add or reconsider some of them if they are shown to be silly.

[farmer]

Border jumpers should recieve one warning shot (because we'er Gracious) with all follow on fire being for keeps. Border crossing needs to get MUCH more dicey. Simple but we are MUCH to politically correct to ever do something so effective.

Plus there should be ZERO aid for illegals that do happen to make it across. As to the Illegals who are already here? They have 30 days to find their way back to meheeco or they will be taken there by force without any possesions including their bank accounts.

This problem will never get solved unless there are REAL consiquences. Everyone these days seem to think that ALL problems must be solved "diplomatically" and "fairly". Hogwash. Whoever these Americans are that are down on the border whacking illegals trying to cross over(mostly drug runners) I applaud them and hope more join in. If the Feds won't then we will. Sadly the feds would rather hunt down these americans than hunt down illegals.

I KNOW I'll get flamed for such a strong stance but I don't care. I'm sick and tired of this crap. I'm tired of weak people and weak responses to situations that pose clear and present dangers to our nation.

[the Ogre]

Traveler:

There is one that is very hard and had some potential, but is continually opposed to those who earn quick political gild from it: improving the economy in Mexico.

There are some, but not many illegal-alien Canadians. Why? Life is pretty good in Canada (okay, I'd never live there . . . it's filled with Canadians).

I do not think NAFTA has ever been given the opportunity to work and nor have we expanded on it making sure that work conditions there are safe. Eventually, the more we invest in NAFTA, making sure the benefits of living there are on par with Canada or Brazil. Why haven't we been promoting the creation of a large, stable, and strong middle-class (other than the fact we are sabotaging our own middle-class). When people have lawns to cut and good schools, they do not sneak off anywhere (in general).

The hard/long solutions tend to be the best: why'd we quit on this one?

[Hemidakota]

I do agree with the idea of eliminating instant citizenship for children of illegals born here. I think this would help a lot of the overcrowding in border hospitals.

I've worked on farms before. I've worked side-by-side with aliens, both legal and illegal. The legal immigrants work just as hard as the illegals. Farmers prefer the legals, they are less trouble and hassle, and more dependable, in my experience. Most of the illegals I met would have liked to be here legally, even as seasonal guest workers. From what I was told, it is incredibly difficult for them to get seasonal work visas, and there are far too few to go around.

I would be amenable to issuing seasonal guest worker visas, with these requirements as a start:

*The person must pass a criminal background check, here in the US, through Interpol records, and in their home country. Any felony-grade crime would automatically make them ineligible. This would be checked yearly, and the applicant would be responsible for the cost of the check.

*The person would not be able to be here for more than 6 months of any 12-month period.

*The worker would be issued a laminated work permit with a tax number, fingerprint, and picture on it. He must carry it with him as identification, just as I must carry a license to drive.

*Employers would be allowed to hire them, but no more than 50% of his employees could be holders of these permits.

*All federal, state, and local taxes would be collected, except for Social Security taxes. The workers with the cards would never be eligible for Social Security for wages earned while holding the permit.

*Employers who hire undocumented workers or too many seasonal permit workers would face stiff penalties, enough to it not worth it to violate the law.

*The card would be revoked upon conviction of any crime.

Those are just initial ideas off the top of my head, I would be willing to add or reconsider some of them if they are shown to be silly.

Southern part of California, we have green card employees, where everyday, a worker cross the border, does his or her day labor then returns home everynight. They are paid in the same fashion as any legal worker.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Traveler]

Border jumpers should recieve one warning shot (because we'er Gracious) with all follow on fire being for keeps. Border crossing needs to get MUCH more dicey. Simple but we are MUCH to politically correct to ever do something so effective.

Plus there should be ZERO aid for illegals that do happen to make it across. As to the Illegals who are already here? They have 30 days to find their way back to meheeco or they will be taken there by force without any possesions including their bank accounts.

This problem will never get solved unless there are REAL consiquences. Everyone these days seem to think that ALL problems must be solved "diplomatically" and "fairly". Hogwash. Whoever these Americans are that are down on the border whacking illegals trying to cross over(mostly drug runners) I applaud them and hope more join in. If the Feds won't then we will. Sadly the feds would rather hunt down these americans than hunt down illegals.

I KNOW I'll get flamed for such a strong stance but I don't care. I'm sick and tired of this crap. I'm tired of weak people and weak responses to situations that pose clear and present dangers to our nation.

To make this easy shall we start first with children under 5?

The Traveler

[Dravin]

To make this easy shall we start first with children under 5?

The Traveler

I recommend the age of 2 and under, it has a nice Biblical flourish to it.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Dravin

[marshac]

There is one that is very hard and had some potential, but is continually opposed to those who earn quick political gild from it: improving the economy in Mexico.

There are some, but not many illegal-alien Canadians. Why? Life is pretty good in Canada (okay, I'd never live there . . . it's filled with Canadians).

I do not think NAFTA has ever been given the opportunity to work and nor have we expanded on it making sure that work conditions there are safe. Eventually, the more we invest in NAFTA, making sure the benefits of living there are on par with Canada or Brazil. Why haven't we been promoting the creation of a large, stable, and strong middle-class (other than the fact we are sabotaging our own middle-class). When people have lawns to cut and good schools, they do not sneak off anywhere (in general).

First off, since we don't even know how to improve our own economy, i'm not sure we're in a position to tell other countries how to manage their own. There are also huge cultural differences between countries that were initially colonized by Spain and those colonized by the Brits, so what works for the US/Canada may not work for them. Second, NAFTA is part of the reason why so many people from Mexico came up here- it destroyed the farming (corn) industry (mostly family farms) in Mexico due to cheap imports from the US.

[marshac]

My main problem with illegal immigration two-fold. First, I have several friends that recently became US citizens, or are working on getting their green cards- they did it the correct way. It angers me when I hear about how a certain group of people (those here illegally) should essentially be given special treatment while my friends spent their time/money doing things the correct way. My other problem is that it seems as though the illegal population has no desire to become an American, but rather simply wants to recreate Mexico- how many times do we see Mexican flags waved about at immigration rallies? What is the message there?

Also- this may sound elitist, but here it is- the people entering this country illegally are not the kind of people we want- we have plenty of uneducated poor people in this country already. What we do want are those who want to come here and have something to offer. Nearly every other western country has restrictions on who can enter the country, so I'm not sure why it's un-PC to implement the same here. Check out Canada's immigration page-

Immigrating to Canada

It's pretty clear who they want- those that have either investment capital or specialized skills. It's not elitist- it's self-preservation for their way of life.

[Traveler]

First off, since we don't even know how to improve our own economy, i'm not sure we're in a position to tell other countries how to manage their own. There are also huge cultural differences between countries that were initially colonized by Spain and those colonized by the Brits, so what works for the US/Canada may not work for them. Second, NAFTA is part of the reason why so many people from Mexico came up here- it destroyed the farming (corn) industry (mostly family farms) in Mexico due to cheap imports from the US.

It seems a little fuzzy logic that illegal farm workers are coming here to make more money because US farm products are undercutting theirs.

The Traveler

[marshac]

It seems a little fuzzy logic that illegal farm workers are coming here to make more money because US farm products are undercutting theirs.

Why is it hard to believe that enormous corporate farms can produce corn cheaper than a small family farms?

[Wingnut]

Why is it hard to believe that enormous corporate farms can produce corn cheaper than a small family farms?

It's not hard to believe. It's just ironic because the corporate farms are manned by the illegals who can't find work in their own country/ies because US corporate farms have beat down family farms back home.

[Hemidakota]

Why is it hard to believe that enormous corporate farms can produce corn cheaper than a small family farms?

It is now done by automation. Even the combines are AI GPS type vehicles. Simply don't require any driver now. Even planting is done by machines versus people.

They have the resources and land sizes to make a greater profit.

[mordorbund]

It is now done by automation. Even the combines are AI GPS type vehicles. Simply don't require any driver now. Even planting is done by machines versus people.

They have the resources and land sizes to make a greater profit.

So how do we discourage farmers from hiring illegal robot aliens without hurting Americans (including the robot aliens that paid their dues and came here legally)?

[gabelpa]

So how do we discourage farmers from hiring illegal robot aliens without hurting Americans (including the robot aliens that paid their dues and came here legally)?

That is simple. The Robot Registration and Citizenry Office is here to assist in these matters. After reprogramming the speech synthesyzers with a Nebraskan drawl, painting flags on the side and arming it with an All-American Anti-Alien Area Annihilator, the illegal alien robots can be made to feel right at home.

[Hemidakota]

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News Alert: Judge blocks the most controversial sections of Arizona's immigration law from taking effect

01:15 PM EDT Wednesday, July 28, 2010

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PHOENIX -- A judge has blocked the most controversial sections of Arizona's new immigration law from taking effect Thursday, handing a major legal victory to opponents of the crackdown.

The law will still take effect Thursday, but without many of the provisions that angered opponents - including sections that required officers to check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws. The judge also put on hold a part of the law that required immigrants to carry their papers at all times, and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places.

For more information, visit washingtonpost.com:

washingtonpost.com