Church's views on scary/horror films?

[Uncle_Sam]

Interesting. A church resource mentions "we have been counseled", but fails to provide a footnote or a link. And the church website doesn't show any such counsel either.

So again - does anyone have specific information about specific counsel given?

Just trying to track it down. It wouldn't be the first time cultural legend has made it to the level of prophecy or doctrine in people's minds...

I don't know of any link, but I think it says that in the priesthood manuals. But I've been told that by other church leaders all my life, so I've never tried using them.

[FunkyTown]

Would you consider the Bible doctrine?

Passage Leviticus 19:31:

Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 18:10-13:

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

1 Chronicles 10:13-14:

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

2 Chronicles 33:6:

And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

The old testament is pretty specific. There are actually numerous other quotes that talk about dealing with spirits. It's not a good thing, and that's what Ouija boards ostensibly are about. If they work, then they're a sin. If they don't work, then they're a tool of lies. Who's the father of lies?

Interesting. A church resource mentions "we have been counseled", but fails to provide a footnote or a link. And the church website doesn't show any such counsel either.

So again - does anyone have specific information about specific counsel given?

Just trying to track it down. It wouldn't be the first time cultural legend has made it to the level of prophecy or doctrine in people's minds...

[Suzie]

An Ensign Article about it:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Searching the Scriptures: What the Scriptures Say about Astrology, Divination, Spirit Mediums, Magic, Wizardry, and Necromancy

[Suzie]

Genuine spirituality warms and grows in our hearts. The fake spirituality is often scary and leaves scars. Permanently. There is usually no mention of God in the occult, only signs. Yet we have learned not to seek for signs. The effect of bizarre cultism is immediate but temporary. The sacred grows slowly, must be nurtured, and leaves lasting effects.

“We were playing with a Ouija board in school one day,” said JoAnn, a Laurel in Southern California. “We kept asking questions and the board kept answering correctly. I became increasingly frightened and eventually so scared that I fled from the room. I couldn’t sleep for days. I kept waking up with nightmares. It was a horrible experience. We are told to seek for the positive in life,” she continued, “but the negative is just as powerful. By forcing all your attention and your thoughts on an object, using ritual to make the image emotional, you can easily surrender your consciousness to evil powers.”

So look for the differences that make a difference.

LDS.org - New Era Article - The Precarious Age of Aquarius

[NeuroTypical]

If they work, then they're a sin. If they don't work, then they're a tool of lies. Who's the father of lies?

Well, yeah, I guess. Ouija boards are squares of cardboard mass produced by the Hasbro company. They're available at Toys-R-Us. From where I'm standing, the only thing that legitimately works about them, is when people bring their own conformation bias to the table. They're about as much a "tool of lies" as professional wrestling, a politician's campaign promise, or a scary movie about demons. For that matter, they're about as much a "tool of lies" as dowsing and divination rods that Joseph Smith used to dink around with early on in his life.

I like this skeptic's take on the issue: "The fact that a person takes a "communication" seriously enough to have it significantly interfere with the enjoyment of life might be a sufficient reason for avoiding the Ouija board, but it is hardly a sufficient reason for concluding that the messages issue from anything but our own minds."

I guess there's a good question: If Ouija boards are a tool of lies, then what are the scary movies about the occult or demons or zombies? How about playing Dungeons and Dragons? How about telling ghost stories for the purpose of scaring the willies out of people? Seems to me that consistency demands you either give all of these things supernatural creedence, or none of them.

From what I can tell, LDS culture has two opposing viewpoints in it. Skeptics like me who figure that although Satan and his minions exist, 99.9% of the crap you hear about supernatural manefestations, can be explained via conformation bias, our ability to confuse emotions with spirits, and the subconscious mind. The other viewpoint is that a high percentage of the crap you hear about supernatural manefestations, are genuine.

I'll stick with the skeptic position for now. Got no problem with folks who hold the other position. I'm just not convinced.

LM

[Wingnut]

Church Publications (HTML)

[FunkyTown]

I guess there's a good question: If Ouija boards are a tool of lies, then what are the scary movies about the occult or demons or zombies? How about playing Dungeons and Dragons? How about telling ghost stories for the purpose of scaring the willies out of people? Seems to me that consistency demands you either give all of these things supernatural creedence, or none of them.

This is a legitimate question, and the difference comes down to the purpose of those.

If a scary movie's purpose is to get you to communicate with the dead, or to abandon religion, or to hate your neighbor, then it is a tool of lies and is to be avoided.

The same for any of the others you mentioned.

A story, like a parable, has a moral. Every one does. If that moral is a lie, then the story is a tool of lies and is to be avoided. A scary ghost story can have a very simple moral: Don't mess with the supernatural(True), don't trust in falsehood(true), your own sins come back to haunt you(true). Or they can be: Religion is false(False doctrine), faith is ignorance(False) or the moral could be to characterize God in a false way.

In that manner, it is not the medium of the message that is important, but the message.

A Ouija board's stated purpose is communication with the dead. The moral of playing with it is either: A) Spiritism is harmless(False, as the bible teaches); Or B) Spiritism is desireable(False, as the bible teaches)

[Uncle_Sam]

The biggest reason ouija boards are considered bad by a lot of people is that the purpose of it is to speak to spirits directly. While using it you are literally inviting evil spirits where ever you are and to communicate with you. And evil spirits are more than willing to go where they're invited by humans. The fact is that when you use an ouija board, you're driving away the Holy Ghost and inviting in evil spirits. Even if it seems fun at the time, don't forget about the purpose of ouija boards.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Uncle_Sam

[hordak]

A Ouija board's stated purpose is communication with the dead. The moral of playing with it is either: A) Spiritism is harmless(False, as the bible teaches); Or B) Spiritism is desireable(False, as the bible teaches)

I always thought the purpose to the Ouija board was to keep 14 yearold girls entertained at sleep overs.

[FunkyTown]

I always thought the purpose to the Ouija board was to keep 14 yearold girls entertained at sleep overs.

That's it's effect. The purpose is something far different.

The purpose of a gun is to kill something. The effect of a gun can be to intimidate, to get money from a bank or to hold sideways so it jams and blows up in your face.

[hordak]

Personally i think the Ouija board is bunk. When tested with scientific controls in place, blindfolded players, it ends up with jibberish or asking a verifiable question neither players know the answer to (3rd party picks number between 1 and 100 puts in sealed envelope) the "spirits" end up as accurate as your average guesser.

Even my Wiccan neighbor , who believes in and contacts different spirits and gods as part of her religious beliefs says they are bunk as mass produced toys do not equal authentic divining tools.

In a Christian context it would be like considering the often used curse ,G darn it, (cleaned up for the board) a legitimate prayer with actual consequences.

That being said i could see the problem with them as far as "taking control" of you life.

Like in the old twilight zone episode The nick of time. Basically fortune telling machine gets a few question rights and William Shatner "gets hooked" letting it make all his choices. He wises up and leave while another couple gets sucked into it.

Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstition, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence, having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.

Do do do do do do do do do do do do

[NeuroTypical]

A Ouija board's stated purpose is communication with the dead.\

The biggest reason ouija boards are considered bad by a lot of people is that the purpose of it is to speak to spirits directly.

Exactly where is this purpose stated? Again, Ouija is a game mass-marketed by Hasbro. If you go to the Hasbro website and look up the Ouija playing instructions, you'll see no mention of spirits. The main game website only says "How it works has been a mystery for over 30 years!"

There have been 21 trademarks taken on the name "Ouija". Here are the last six:

(16) "Psychic Instrument" (patent no.1,476,158; 4 December 1923: Grover C. Haffner)

(17) "Game" (patent no.1,514,260; 4 November 1924: Alfred A. Rees)

(18) "Amusement Device" (patent no.1,870,677; 9 August 1932: William A. Fuld)

(19) "Amusement Device" (patent no.2,220,455; 5 November 1940: John P. McCarthy)

(20) "Finger Pressure Actuated Message Interpreting Amusement Device" (patent no.2,511,377; 13 June 1950: Raymond S. Richmond)

(21) "Message Device With Freely Swingable Pointer" (patent no.3,306,617; 28 February 1967: Thomas W. Gillespie)

"Stated purpose is communication with the dead" indeed. "purpose of it is to speak to spirits directly" indeed. It's sounding more and more like you people have fallen for the same sort of marketing play that created our modern concept of Santa Claus. One presents a jolly red-faced man to get you to buy Coke, the other presents an aura of mysteriosness and naughtitude to do... Well, Hordak nailed it, except it kept me entertained at age 12 too.

C'mon, folks. This is sort of like calling people witches, isn't it? I mean, in this case, the 'witches' in question are sort of encouraging the drama because it helps them sell things and make a profit, but dang - you wanna talk about truth, and then proceed to place this thing on a pedestal it hasn't really claimed for itself for 50 years?

[Moksha]

Speaking of Ouija, do you suppose there are those in the Church who believe the monsters and demons in horror films are real?

[Dravin]

Speaking of Ouija, do you suppose there are those in the Church who believe the monsters and demons in horror films are real?

I'm fairly confident I've seen this at a few Church potlucks:

Edited August 5, 2010 by Dravin

[Moksha]

I'm fairly confident I've seen this at a few Church potlucks:

Sometimes with a cottage cheese and pineapple filling.

[FlaviusHambonius]

Speaking of Ouija, do you suppose there are those in the Church who believe the monsters and demons in horror films are real?

Well I would'nt call Linda Blair a demon or a monster -- but she sure was convincing of a possesed little girl.

I was in a reading class in the 8th grade -- when a fellow classmate was reading the book, and I didn't know much about it at all. Then the movie came out that same year and I started hearing all the stuff about it -- deaths on the production set etc. I even remember when it first came out in SLC the opening night, that lightning hit the movie theatre and the power went out.

Anyway I didn't see it until I was a sophmore in high school for the first time with a buddy and it was hands down the freakiest movie I have ever seen.

A few years back I was flopped out on the bed asleep late at night and when I awoke they were playing it on some late night tv program -- I could'nt get to the remote fast enough to flip it.

Acually, 'The Exorcist' was based on a teenage boy in Georgetown, DC.

[annewandering]

For those who mock the boards being evil, well give thanks to God that you have not had personal experience to know better. I do and it makes my stomach ill to this day. I will testify to you right here that whille I believe in God I have 'seen' the horror of the adversary and it kept me from sleeping without being frightened that I would lose control to him while asleep for a year or more.

I had nothing to do with the thing but some girls behind me on last day of school did but everyone in the room ran screaming from the room even those, like me, that werent even looking. The feeling of overwhelming evil is something I will never be able, or even want to, describe.

Be wary but I just cant talk anymore about this. Just be careful.

[Guest The_Doctor]

How about playing Dungeons and Dragons?

I believe it's about intention. People playing D&D don't intend to cast magic or fight zombies. They're intending to chill with friends and pretend to fight monsters. You intend to contact spirits when you use an Ouji board. That's my rule in general, what are you intending to do? Kids pretending to be wizards are intending to cast magic, cultists are.

[NeuroTypical]

You intend to contact spirits when you use an Ouji board.

Well, that's just it. No I don't. Back in my early teens, my desires and intentions for using the Oujia board included the following:

* Apearing cool

* Gaining acceptance from my peers

* Desiring to experience memorable events, so as not to have "wasted my best years"

* Really hoping to sit next to friend's older sister and see how much of myself I could bring into actual physical contact with her as we all reached down to hold the planchette thingy.

Not really anything to do with spirits. I didn't care a whit if the thing worked or not. That white longsleeved turtleneck, and fear of peer pressure backlash, was pretty much all my grey matter was focused on.

So, The_Doctor, I'm being more openly honest about my intentions than I originally thought possible. Does that mean it was ok for me to play with the board?

LM

[MichaelCraig]

The original Wizard of OZ in black and white scared the mess outta me. Those flying monkeys!!!! I still can't look them in the eyes. Monkeys should never fly. Especially with those little bellmen hats and vests. yeeoooowweeeee!!!!!!

GOOD BYE

[Guest The_Doctor]

Well, that's just it. No I don't. Back in my early teens, my desires and intentions for using the Oujia board included the following:

* Apearing cool

* Gaining acceptance from my peers

* Desiring to experience memorable events, so as not to have "wasted my best years"

* Really hoping to sit next to friend's older sister and see how much of myself I could bring into actual physical contact with her as we all reached down to hold the planchette thingy.

Not really anything to do with spirits. I didn't care a whit if the thing worked or not. That white longsleeved turtleneck, and fear of peer pressure backlash, was pretty much all my grey matter was focused on.

So, The_Doctor, I'm being more openly honest about my intentions than I originally thought possible. Does that mean it was ok for me to play with the board?

LM

I personally wouldn't, but I believe that the board can/is used to contact spirits. But then again I would be hard pressed to disagree with myself. In general I find the occult to be murky waters.

[Saturnfulcrum]

Back to the original question...

I enjoy scary movies, but they have to have a good storyline. My new favorite right now is A Haunting In Connecticut because it made the family in the movie stronger after the haunting stopped. (Yeah, I'm a sap for happy family movies.)

I'm not a slasher-movie fan though. My friends told me about this movie called 28 Days Later and we rented it last week. Half way through I realized it was rated R (they never told me the rating), just because it went from 'awesome storyline' to 'lets blow up people just cuz we can. Oh, and lets drop the F bomb every other word too, just for for kicks and giggles!' Yeah, It had so much potential too...

I also love watching shows like Ghost Hunters because hey, would YOU want to spend the night in a creepy old castle that used to hold prisoners and ground their tortured bones into the concrete used to make the castle walls? My answer is no, but if someone wants to do it and document it for me then hey! I get a scary show AND a documentary about the history of the place without actually being there!

I DO have to admit that with some of those ghost hunting and scary story telling shows, I have felt a dark and icky feeling come over me, and usually in that case its because of the history of the horrific things that happened in that place. Did I feel the spirit leave? Yes. Every time this happened it proved to me that yes, there is real evil in this world...that real human beings can truly stray so far from the spirit that awful things can happen. I tend to turn off the program because I don't like feeling icky.

Most of the scary movies are based off a legend or semi-logical theories of 'what if's. *spoilers for some movies ahead!*

The Skeleton Key was based off of a religion that was started by slaves in the south and spun into a storyline that would scare people.

28 Days Later was practically I Am Legend, but with blowing up people and zombie-like humans puking up massive amounts of blood. I still can't figure out how even a 'humanoid being' can throw up that much blood without actually dying...

A Haunting In Connecticut is about a family who has to move to Connecticut because their eldest son is dying of cancer and it starts tearing the family apart.

The Village is about a group of people who were upset with the way humanity was heading, so they created their own community to try and shelter their posterity from the horrors of life.

The Ring is about a mother and son who watch a haunted video tape of a deceased girl who just wanted her story to be heard.

Psycho is about a series of murders that happen at a small motel off the main road in California just outside of Las Angeles. Its a race against time to find proof that the murderer did it before more unsuspecting motel stayers disappear with no trace.

Saw (at least the first few, not sure about the new ones), as much as a slasher movie it is, is about a man who is dying from cancer and is angry that people take life for granted, so he puts these people into situations where they have to decide if they want to live or not. Never really going to watch this series. Too slashy for me.

So some of these movies I would highly recommend because they have good story lines, even if their intent is to scare you. Most of them have great morals (as mentioned before), and honestly, the scary movies you hear about the most are those that actually have substance to them.

Are they against the Church? Some are, some aren't. Just depends on the subject matter. I'm sure the brethren have seen one or two scary movies in their lives. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't watch it. They aren't a problem unless they overtake your life and you start believing that witches/undead/fire breathing dragons/flesh eating zombies exist.

But then again, some people believe Harry Potter, Eragon, and James Bond are real so...

[MichaelCraig]

Here FunkyTown. Got you an early birthday present. I'd order all you can....NOW!!!! They're going pretty quick! :)

[Milluw]

The only thing i could find was this:

Has any General Authority of the Mormon Church ever said that members of the church should not watch R rated movies? | Ask Gramps

When i were unactive in the church, horrors were basically all i really felt like watching. Returning to the church, i felt like every time i turned on a horror i put up a wall. The spirit left even as i thought of it. Now, i don't think all horrors are bad, i couldn't say that since i havn't seen all the movies made. (Although i've seen a whole lot ) But i do think that horrors in many cases arn't a tastefull way of delivering a message. I don't think that you will get blind of the negative things in life, if you don't let them in your life. The majority would probably still know that its out there. I can watch a horror or something like it, but i do screen it carefully now. It's also made me more open in my heart when i watch movies. Before nothing really had an impact on me unless it was extreme. I still don't scare that easily, but im sure that movies make more of an impact on all of us than we know of.

Maybe it's just about finding a balance in it. Working together with the spirit.

[Moksha]

I personally wouldn't, but I believe that the board can/is used to contact spirits.

You mean like:

T-H-E

L-I-Q-O-UR

I-S

F-O-U-N-D

O-N

A-I-S-L-E

9

?