Did Adam and Eve...

[GDKT]

...have bellybuttons?

We know Christ did, while on Earth, since he was born of Mary.

We also do, too. And while we are made in the image of God, Christ and God look the same.

But the bellybutton is nothing more than a scar. We are told that our bodies will be perfect, without scars, in the resurrection.

I also understand that Adam and Eve had perfect bodies in the garden.

So considering all these things... did they have belly buttons??

[Connie]

Hello GDKT. It's nice to meet you. Welcome to the forum.

This question has been discussed on this site many times already. Please see these:

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/17588-were-adam-eve-born.html

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27592-belly-button.html

[MarginOfError]

I wonder if scar is really meant to mean scar. Perhaps it might be better understood as 'blemish.' And is a belly button really a blemish?

Personally, I think the prospect of eternity without opportunity for injury would be kind of dull.

[Gwen]

adam and eve i don't know. i do think we will have ours after the resurrection. here is my very childish logic for it. lol

when christ was resurrected he wasn't "completely perfect" he did keep a few scars. the prints in his hands and feet and side. why did he keep them? it was due to why he had them, it was a witness to who he was and what he had done. i don't think he was forced to keep those scars, i think he chose to. the events that created them were that integral to forming who he became as a person down to his soul. they are part of his eternal identity.

the plan we accepted, the point, was to gain a body. we came here, we lived a life, we gained this body, our experiences here will shape who we become down to our soul. the belly button is the scar that was created in that event. it's a witness to who we are and what we've done. it's part of our eternal identity. i think we will want to keep that.

on the flip side lol i'm starting to make this up as i go along..... if adam and eve did not have a belly button i don't think they will have one after the resurrection. the lack of one would be a witness to who they were and what they did as the first parents. it's part of their eternal identity. .... which would actually give more reason to believe we would keep ours, adam and eve aren't special if no one has one. lol

another thing to consider is we often define "perfect" as "without blemish or scars" but who defines blemish? i don't think christ sees his scars as a blemish. a blemish is an unwanted defect that interferes with the beauty of something.

the question i have is will our belly buttons look as they do in this life or will we get to have one that looks like we want it to?

[Wingnut]

Who cares and why does it matter?

[Vanhin]

I like my belly button... I would like to keep it as a token of my mortal experience.

Vanhin

[Vanhin]

Do our spirits have belly buttons?

Vanhin

[hordak]

But the bellybutton is nothing more than a scar. We are told that our bodies will be perfect, without scars, in the resurrection.

I acctually have a different take on this. We are told we will be perfect and not even one hair on our head will be lost.

"When i had kids my drinking habit was not lost."

Many could read this and think, "he didn't stop drinking when he had kids"

but what i actually mean is that when i stopped drinking for my kids i didn't loose out on anything. That missing part of my life is not relevant anymore.

I believe we will have a sort of "eternal beer goggles" so to speak and will see all as perfect, not that all will be perfect (in an earthly standard)

As Gwen pointed out there is no universal standard, we all see beauty differently.

I do believe things that hinder you ( a missing limb) will be restored

but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame.

Edited August 12, 2010 by hordak

[miztrniceguy]

Ask them when you see them. :)

[Seminarysnoozer]

adam and eve i don't know. i do think we will have ours after the resurrection. here is my very childish logic for it. lol

when christ was resurrected he wasn't "completely perfect" he did keep a few scars. the prints in his hands and feet and side. why did he keep them? it was due to why he had them, it was a witness to who he was and what he had done. i don't think he was forced to keep those scars, i think he chose to. the events that created them were that integral to forming who he became as a person down to his soul. they are part of his eternal identity.

the plan we accepted, the point, was to gain a body. we came here, we lived a life, we gained this body, our experiences here will shape who we become down to our soul. the belly button is the scar that was created in that event. it's a witness to who we are and what we've done. it's part of our eternal identity. i think we will want to keep that.

on the flip side lol i'm starting to make this up as i go along..... if adam and eve did not have a belly button i don't think they will have one after the resurrection. the lack of one would be a witness to who they were and what they did as the first parents. it's part of their eternal identity. .... which would actually give more reason to believe we would keep ours, adam and eve aren't special if no one has one. lol

another thing to consider is we often define "perfect" as "without blemish or scars" but who defines blemish? i don't think christ sees his scars as a blemish. a blemish is an unwanted defect that interferes with the beauty of something.

the question i have is will our belly buttons look as they do in this life or will we get to have one that looks like we want it to?

I know we've talked about this many times on different threads, but it is one of my favorite topics so I can't resist to throw in my two cents. I think our existence here is temporary, it is not how and who we really are. Also, this is a corrupted degraded body.

The appearance of my body and your body is a compilation of a lot of variables that depend on individual choices and world events that I was not a part of. Then why should I carry with me into the eternities a compilation of all those imperfect factors. I may have blonde hair and blue eyes because one of my ancestors from a nordic country several centuries ago decided to invade a coastal village near what now is Spain and rape my ancestral grandmother and so those genes carried through. Or, many generations ago there may have been a famine and so that ancestor was of short stature and so ended up marrying someone of equal stature, thus changing the genetic information. Or, a war destroyed most of the town and so that ancestor had to travel far off to find a spouse. Or an ancestor gambled all his money away and so had to join the navy and a storm blew the ship onto foreign land where he remained and started a family ... etc. etc.

That seems odd to me that we would carry through our appearance resulting from numerous imperfect variables and decisions. ... If you take away all the genetic mutations and alterations in everybody it leads you to one set of genes, those of Adam and Eve .... that is what is meant by returning every hair of the head, in my opinion.

[Maya]

snoozer.... I just hope we are not duplications of Adam and Eve... ALL of us! But keep our individual features, but that they are clean of any missforms aso.

I also hope we loose the scars we want to loose... my best friend hit me with a spade so under my eyebrow is a scar....

In my opinion Adam and Eve did have a belly button and I think we all need it so they can regognize us as HomoSapiens from Earth....

[Moksha]

So considering all these things... did they have belly buttons??

If we premise all things on natural reproduction, then the answer would have to be yes. If we premised things based on the first day in Algebra class, the answer would be, "I don't know".

[Seminarysnoozer]

snoozer.... I just hope we are not duplications of Adam and Eve... ALL of us! But keep our individual features, but that they are clean of any missforms aso.

I also hope we loose the scars we want to loose... my best friend hit me with a spade so under my eyebrow is a scar....

In my opinion Adam and Eve did have a belly button and I think we all need it so they can regognize us as HomoSapiens from Earth....

Of course, I do not know, these are just interesting thoughts but I am curious why you (many people do) have such an attachment to your individual features. Are we not supposed to desire the Lord's countenance in ours. Didn't Jesus say, when you see me you see the Father. In the temple, individuality in appearance is not encouraged, realizing they don't enforce perfect exactness but the attempt for similarity is there, I think, for a reason. And during the course of instruction we are all supposed to imagine ourselves as a certain individual (without being specific), the 'perfect' representation of what we are here.

I think the definition of "missforms" as you say it is up for discussion. I can tell you for sure though it is not based on our telling God what we want to look like, I kinda doubt that would be close to what God has in mind. If one includes all the degradation of genes and corruption of "blood" (=genes, maybe) and in fact take away blood (=genes, maybe) then it also takes away the variability. I really doubt that God makes it random or rolls some dice or includes some statistically produced trait like autosomal recessive/dominant trait like eye color, hair color, skin color, height etc as part of the equation. I see God as one that acts with exact purpose. In this non-celestial existence there is randomness and variability. I try my best not to be too attached to things that are not celestial, fall short every time, but I try.

I too, like I'm sure most, have tendencies to hold onto everything personal in this life as if I own it. Just think about the fact that we are told to give ourselves, I think that includes our appearance too. I know I don't have any ownership claim to my appearance. ... just a thought.

btw, nice friend ... hope it was an accident. :)

[Vanhin]

Seminarysnoozer,

My individual identity is inseparable from who I am. The characteristics (not blemishes) that make me recognizable are part of my eternal identity, which includes my gender. Our bodies have the identifying characteristics of our spirits. We are individuals, and the gospel plan is all about the continuation of our individual development. The spirit and the body is the true identity of ourselves.

And in this dispensation the Lord revealed that “the spirit and the body are the soul of man” (D&C 88:15). A truth that really is and always will be is that the body and the spirit constitute our reality and identity. When body and spirit are inseparably connected, we can receive a fulness of joy; when they are separated, we cannot receive a fulness of joy (see D&C 93:33–34). (LDS.org - Liahona Article - Things as They Really Are)

So that the man receiving his wife by the power of God, for time and for all eternity, would have the right to claim her and she to claim her husband in the world to come. Neither would be changed, except from mortality to immortality, neither would be other than himself or herself; but they will have their identity in the world to come, precisely as they exercise their individuality and enjoy their identity here. God has revealed this principle, and it has its bearing upon the evidence that we possess of the actual, literal resurrection of the body, just as it is, and as the prophets have declared it in the Book of Mormon. Now, that is the faith of the Latter-day Saints, and that is the doctrine of this Church as taught in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, the Bible, and the Pearl of Great Price; and we are willing to stand by it; and our children and our children’s children after us, to the latest generation, will abide this truth, for it is founded on revelation from God.” Joseph F. Smith (LDS.org - New Era Article - Presidents of the Church Speak on Temple Marriage)

You can believe how you wish, but what you are saying just does not seem right at all. We are not going to turn into clones, we are going to maintain our eternal individuality, as we did when we entered mortality. The main difference after the resurrection is immortality.

Having the countenance of the Savior is not referring to the removal of individuality.

We are here for these bodies which have taken our very own individual appearance, that of our spirit.

Do our spirits have belly buttons?

Regards,

Vanhin

Edited August 13, 2010 by Vanhin
A few corrections.

[mikbone]

Moses 6:22 - Adam was the son of God

Moses 6:59 - Adam was born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit.

Moses 3:24 - Adam speaking says, therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother.

[Roseslipper]

Who cares and why does it matter?

lol i agee wing.... does it really matter??? I dont think so.

[Justice]

It's important whether or not you believe God molded clay and breathed life into man, or if we were actually born as children of Heavenly Parents.

One says they would have a belly button and the other allows for discussion.

[pam]

Ask them when you see them. :)

Ask their bellybuttons? Oh you meant Adam and Eve.

[Vanhin]

It's important whether or not you believe God molded clay and breathed life into man, or if we were actually born as children of Heavenly Parents.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but I think you mean born to parents... Our spirits were born to heavenly parents, not our physical bodies (see The Family: A Proclamation to the World). There is only one who is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, else He is not the Only One. :)

I believe Adam was born as Moses 6:59 indicates, which means he had a belly button, but I believe more along the lines of what Brigham Young once taught.

Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. The offspring of Adam and Eve are commanded to take the rude elements, and, by the knowledge God has given, to convert them into everything required for their life, health, adornment, wealth, comfort, and consolation. Have we the knowledge to do this? We have. Who gave us this knowledge? Our Father who made us; for he is the only wise God, and to him we owe allegiance; to him we owe our lives. He has brought us forth and taught us all we know. We are not indebted to any other power or God for all our great blessings. (JD 7:286, Brigham Young, October 9, 1859)

The process of creating bodies of the dust of the earth, which are the "rude elements", is the process of how you and I came to be here in mortality.

To Adam the Lord said, "...inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten..." (Moses 6:59).

Regards,

Vanhin

Edited August 13, 2010 by Vanhin

[Vanhin]

Also, about Moses 6:22. That is referring to Adam who was the first to become a son of God by the process by which all can become begotten sons and daughters unto God. the last three verses of Moses chapter 6 clarifies this point.

And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever; And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity. Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen. (Moses 6:66-68)

And that is exactly what is meant in the following scripture from the Doctrine and Covenants.

That by him [the Only Begotten], and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (D&C 76:24)

We are all spirit offspring of heavenly parents, and we can all become begotten sons and daughters of God, meaning heirs and joint heirs with Christ. That's what the scriptures in Moses 6 mean about being born again.

Regards,

Vanhin

[PrinceofLight2000]

...have bellybuttons?

We know Christ did, while on Earth, since he was born of Mary.

We also do, too. And while we are made in the image of God, Christ and God look the same.

But the bellybutton is nothing more than a scar. We are told that our bodies will be perfect, without scars, in the resurrection.

I also understand that Adam and Eve had perfect bodies in the garden.

So considering all these things... did they have belly buttons??

Did Adam and Eve...

...have umbilical cords?

[Justice]

Moses 6:

22 And this is the genealogy of the sons of Adam, who was the son of God, with whom God, himself, conversed.

Luke 3:

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

These scriptures are speaking of physical ancestory. I don't believe it somehow changes when it gets to the last line... that would be misleading.

I believe a distinction is made between immortal flesh (Adam) and mortal flesh (Christ).

Christ is the Only Begotten in the flesh, meaning He was born of a mortal mother. Adam was born of an immortal mother. I believe there is a difference and distiction.

God (Father) said to let "us" make man in "our image" both male and female.

Genesis 1:

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I believe "us" is Father and Mother. It could not have been anyone else or He would not have said "let us..."

If Adam was the first man and he was not born on this planet, then he was not made from the dust of the earth.

If Adam was not the first man, and others were brought here before him, and Adam was born of someone else, then he is not the son of God as mentioned in the scriptures I quoted. Other sources would be wrong as well because scripture and prophets claim Adam was the first man.

Again, it goes back to understanding scripture symbolism. Christ being the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, to me, means the only Son born of an immortal mother, or flesh and blood.

Our Heavenly Parents still do have their physical bodies and are fully capable of creating immortal physical bodies. What they cannot create together are mortal physical bodies. Hence, the need for a mortal mother for the Messiah.

[Justice]

We are all spirit offspring of heavenly parents, and we can all become begotten sons and daughters of God, meaning heirs and joint heirs with Christ. That's what the scriptures in Moses 6 mean about being born again.

This is a spiritual rebirth (born again), not a physical one.

I am speaking of physical birth. We become part of this fallen world of flesh and blood when we are born into it, through no act of our own. Christ redeems ALL men from this physical fallen condition that we inherited from Adam. This is not the "joint heir" rebirth spoken of in that scripture.

We must be reborn spiritually before we are reborn physically. This spiritual rebirth comes through Christ's atonement and obedience to commandments and ordinances... including baptism. All are present in the symbol: water, blood, and spirit.

I never said we are all born physically of Father and Mother. I said Adam was (before the fall when they still walked and talked with the Father), and Jesus was born of the Father and a mortal mother. We all had 2 mortal parents (physical births).

Our disagreement is in who Adam's physical body was parented by. That's all.

I believe scripture says it was Father and Mother.

[pam]

Perhaps you would also like to read some previous threads on the subject:

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/17588-were-adam-eve-born.html

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/27592-belly-button.html

[arid]

I don't really care about belly buttons, but why didn't God prohibit Adam from eating of the Tree of Life? It wasn't until after Eve and then Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they were cast out of Eden, and thus prevented from eating of the Tree of Life.

Had Adam or Eve eaten of the Tree of Life, and not the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would have lived forever, and not been banished.

Bad choice?