Book of Mormon Anti-war?

[Moksha]

Ran across this interesting article:

Is the Book of Mormon anti-war at its core?

By Matthew D. LaPlante

The Salt Lake Tribune

Published Sep 18, 2010 01:38PM

It’s a story of blood and battle — of mighty soldiers and brutal wars.

But for all the Book of Mormon’s violence, Josh Madson is convinced that the seminal text of his religion actually is a divinely inspired anti-war allegory.

He is out to prove that point to others in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — and that’s a battle of its own.

Madson conceded that there is no shortage of instances in the Book of Mormon when people went to war for reasons that appeared just — and in which those warriors were glorified by God in doing so. (LDS researchers Stephen Ricks and William Hamblin identified 85 instances of armed conflict in the book.)

'War is of Satan’

“The church is and must be against war, for war is of Satan and this church is the church of Christ, who taught peace and righteousness and brotherhood of man.”

Improvement Era, 1942

“But, in the long run, the use of violence never leads to a lasting peace,” the 33-year-old attorney said. “What you see in the Book of Mormon, again and again, is that war doesn’t solve anything. It just leads to more war.”

Is the Book of Mormon anti-war at its core? | The Salt Lake Tribune

What are your thoughts on this matter?

[dorave]

My thoughts are, that the points made in the article, that 'War is of Satan' is not rocket science.

And, although 'War is of Satan' .... Satan is at War with god.

I'm sorry but Satan cannot be at War with himself, you need an enemy to engage in War - the author must be some undercover hippy.

[NateHowe]

This seems to be another example of people taking the words of the scriptures out of context to serve their own agendas. Of course, God and His prophets like peace, but that does not mean that there is no appropriate time to fight for the right.

[Dravin]

Also of interest:

Eating leads to more eating.

[Just_A_Guy]

Amen to NateHowe.

The liberal Mormon wing teaches, then, that evil should never be resisted?

War is revolting; we can all agree on that.

The alternative--laying down and allowing yourself to be slaughtered--happens once or twice in the BoM as well. It's a very powerful story, but those actions didn't end war, either. Ultimately, the Ammonites survived because other people were willing to do their fighting for them. The Ammonites themselves acknowledged this and provided whatever assistance they could to the Nephite armies.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[Dravin]

The liberal Mormon wing teaches, then, that evil should never be resisted

It's to be met with cookies JAG, possibly marshmallows if the situation is dire enough.

[NeuroTypical]

Some folks refuse to grapple with the fact that a dead bad guy can't hurt good guys any more.

*shrug*

[beefche]

You know, there's no doubt that the Gospel is anti-war. Of course, the Lord wants us to be peaceful and He doesn't wish any of His children to suffer from the evil effects of war.

I'm reading the war chapters in Alma for my personal scripture study and I was struck by Moroni's resolve to end the conflict from the Lamanites. I wondered how he would fair today in our society--Moroni put to death anyone who did not covenant to put down their weapons. He didn't jail them or put them in the court system--he executed them. He did take prisoners of war and made them work rather than just sit in a cell and languish. We know that Moroni was a righteous man. We also know that he didn't like killing; but, he knew that sometimes, regardless of your best efforts, others will insist on forcing his hand.

[Moksha]

Moroni put to death anyone who did not covenant to put down their weapons. He didn't jail them or put them in the court system--he executed them.

He would not have faired too well at an NRA convention.

[TheActualLiz]

Interesting... I have been reading Alma and the question of war was one of the first ones that came up. The missionaries told me that self defense is OK, wars of self defense is OK, and serving your country during times of war is OK even if you disagree with that particular war.

Personally I am a bit more liberal. I agree with what they said, but wanted to add that it was also OK to refuse to fight. I would even add that if compelled to fight in an unjust war peaceful civil disobedience was OK as long as you are willing to accept the consequences of disobeying the law. For example if there was a draft and you choose to go to jail rather than fight... I think that's OK.

That being said I want to scream from the rooftops that harassing or disrespecting our soldiers is always wrong!

I would like some feedback on pacifism as a personal choice. I assume the church is OK with that but not OK with making a concrete statement against all violence. Thoughts?

[NeuroTypical]

And just to prove that the mods don't march in lockstep:

...He doesn't wish any of His children to suffer from the evil effects of war.

Well, that's argueable, since he did send us to earth where most of us would be guaranteed to suffer these effects at least a little, at some point in their lives. Suffering evil effects of things is sort of a big part of the plan.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Here are my thoughts on this, they are my observations and opinions.

The Book of Mormon is, in one sense, Anti-War. Not in the context and understanding of the article and the author of that article. The Book of Mormon is Anti-War because it teaches that we are to be in harmony with one another. However, because we are human, and we have our moral agency, we have to be ready to defend our family, our faith, our homes, our lands, our rights, and our freedoms. In this sense, while the Book of Mormon is Anti-war, it is not Passive in regards to War because one will read that when war came to those who obeyed, worship, and believe in God, they stood and defended themselves against the attacks.

This is both literal and symbolic.

Take for instance the following passage. It is Mosiah 9 where we read the account of Zeniff, and how civil war first broke out. How, then, the Lamanites under the rulership of King Laman desired to bring another people under bondage and slavery, contention arose, and how the people with Zeniff did remember the Lord, and they were strengthen to defend themselves, their lands, and their lively hoods.

While we do not have the right to go in and invade another country and bring them under our government jurisdiction, we do have the right to declare war in defense if another country came to us to enslave us, bring us under bondage.

It is much like someone coming in and robbing a house, the father contends against the criminal and defends his home, family, and property.

[WindRiver]

He would not have faired too well at an NRA convention.

Moroni and his army didn't put down their weapons............it was the bad guys who had to surrender their weapons. There is a HUGE difference.

[Dravin]

Moroni and his army didn't put down their weapons............it was the bad guys who had to surrender their weapons. There is a HUGE difference.

Besides, Moroni considered, "You can have my weapons when you pry them out of my cold dead hands" to be an acceptable, if regrettable position.

[NateHowe]

Interesting... I have been reading Alma and the question of war was one of the first ones that came up. The missionaries told me that self defense is OK, wars of self defense is OK, and serving your country during times of war is OK even if you disagree with that particular war.

Personally I am a bit more liberal. I agree with what they said, but wanted to add that it was also OK to refuse to fight. I would even add that if compelled to fight in an unjust war peaceful civil disobedience was OK as long as you are willing to accept the consequences of disobeying the law. For example if there was a draft and you choose to go to jail rather than fight... I think that's OK.

That being said I want to scream from the rooftops that harassing or disrespecting our soldiers is always wrong!

I would like some feedback on pacifism as a personal choice. I assume the church is OK with that but not OK with making a concrete statement against all violence. Thoughts?

I'm sure the Church as an organization will not condemn nor condone your pacifism. If you were to be drafted, the Church would not allow you to use it as an excuse not to serve -- many LDS men have served in the military, both as volunteers and through the draft.

I think it comes down to your relationship with God. Like Nephi, we may desire peace and still be called upon by the Spirit to do something we desperately want to avoid. However, the world could benefit from more peaceable followers of Christ, and hopefully you and I fit into that category.

[Traveler]

Ran across this interesting article:

What are your thoughts on this matter?

Winston Churchill once said, “There are worse thing than war and they all come from losing one.”

I agree with Winston. War ought to be the last resort and when we unleash the dogs of war because there is no other option it is counterproductive to criticize what must be done as the last resort.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

I agree with Winston. War ought to be the last resort and when we unleash the dogs of war because there is no other option it is counterproductive to criticize what must be done as the last resort.

The Traveler

The war for Winston was one of inevitable resort. However, many wars are not borne of last resort, but instead would seem to be wars of opportunity and strategic advantage.

[Traveler]

The war for Winston was one of inevitable resort. However, many wars are not borne of last resort, but instead would seem to be wars of opportunity and strategic advantage.

Sometimes I wonder why we fight wars the way we do. I have thought it might better to forget all the security in the US and just announce to the world that if the US or any citizen is attracted again by any individual or group with Islamic background that we will fire bomb the Kaba in Mecca. Since no one is allowed in the Kaba there should not be any collateral damage.

The Traveler

[Saldrin]

Alma 43 45-47

"Nevertheless, the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.

And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.

And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion."

I love this passage. Fight for the these right reasons. God being all that is always good would never give us a wrong reason to fight. my thoughts are the BoM says we are to defend ourselves. If we have to wage war to defend ourselves then I can't say the scripture is anti-war.

[Just_A_Guy]

And just to prove that the mods don't march in lockstep:

Loudmouth, you're fired.

[Moksha]

I have thought it might better to forget all the security in the US and just announce to the world that if the US or any citizen is attracted again by any individual or group with Islamic background that we will fire bomb the Kaba in Mecca. Since no one is allowed in the Kaba there should not be any collateral damage.

The Traveler

Except possible collateral damage to that hundred-thousand throng doing their toe-to-toe circular pilgrimage.

[Traveler]

Except possible collateral damage to that hundred-thousand throng doing their toe-to-toe circular pilgrimage.

It does not have to be during the haji. Also to avoid retaliation - it could be put forward that it would not have happened if it was not Allah's will - the same argument among many in Islam concerning 9/11.

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

Also to avoid retaliation - it could be put forward that it would not have happened if it was not Allah's will - the same argument among many in Islam concerning 9/11.

The Traveler

I don't think Muslim extremists are that doctrinaire.

[firehotemily]

No the book of mormon is not anti war

but it's not pro war either.

but war is necessary sometimes.