44 pct of gay, bisexual men with HIV don't know it

[bytor2112]

Scary...stats. I wonder what the stats are among heterosexuals?

ATLANTA – One in five sexually active gay and bisexual men has the AIDS virus, and nearly half of those don't know they are infected, a federal study of 21 U.S. cities shows.

[pam]

Heterosexuals and HIV

There is a pie chart.

[PrinceofLight2000]

This is what happens when you fornicate with 75764753453563 people.

At this rate, HIV will spread amongst the general population very slowly until it gets to the point where tons of people are born with it because of others' stupid choices, and it'll become a majority.

Extremely scary.

[Just_A_Guy]

How does Yahoo get 44% from "one in five"?

[Dravin]

How does Yahoo get 44% from "one in five"?

Percentage of homosexual and bisexual men who have AIDS: 1 in 5

Number of those ( homosexual and bisexual men with AIDS) who are unaware they have it: 44%

I think they get the 44% number from this:

Black men were also least likely to know they were infected — about 60 percent didn't know they had HIV — compared 46 percent of Hispanic men and 26 percent of whites.

(.6 + .46 + .26)/3 = .44

Edited September 25, 2010 by Dravin

[Moksha]

Heterosexuals and HIV

There is a pie chart.

Don't really like that pie chart. I prefer this rank order pie chart list:

1. Berry Pies: Boysenberry, blueberry, raspberry, black, logan, lingon, goose berries.

2. Key Lime Pie

3. Kahlua Cream Pie

4. Chocolate Cheesecake with raspberry topping

5. Snickers Bar Pie

6. Boston Cream Pie

7. Pumpkin Pie

8. Lemon Meringue

9. Chocolate Cream

10. Strawberry Pie

This is a much better pie chart.

[ADoyle90815]

Not all homosexuals are promiscuous, in fact many are in long-term relationships with a single person, and in states where it's legal, many gay couples get married. Meanwhile, there are straight people who manage to sleep with 1932140032491742139 people, yet they don't get as harshly judged.

As for the pie chart thing, I love my French silk pie I make on occasion, and pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving. To me, it isn't Thanksgiving without pumpkin pie.

[pam]

To me, it isn't Thanksgiving without pumpkin pie.

I'm so with you on that one.

[Gretchen]

Don't really like that pie chart. I prefer this rank order pie chart list:

1. Berry Pies: Boysenberry, blueberry, raspberry, black, logan, lingon, goose berries.

2. Key Lime Pie

3. Kahlua Cream Pie

4. Chocolate Cheesecake with raspberry topping

5. Snickers Bar Pie

6. Boston Cream Pie

7. Pumpkin Pie

8. Lemon Meringue

9. Chocolate Cream

10. Strawberry Pie

This is a much better pie chart.

You forgot apple and pecan.

[Gretchen]

I was in San Fransisco once, and I saw a bus that said that 1 in 4 where HIV positive, and that like half don't even know it. Course this was like ten years ago...

[bytor2112]

Not all homosexuals are promiscuous, in fact many are in long-term relationships with a single person, and in states where it's legal, many gay couples get married. Meanwhile, there are straight people who manage to sleep with 1932140032491742139 people, yet they don't get as harshly judged.

Oh please. Anyone that sleeps with 1932140032491742139 people is harshly judged. :) The problem with promiscuity in general is that society doesn't really condemn it outside of religious and medical circles. Often....way too often, it's glamorized....c'mon, hookin up is cool. Sugar Daddy's and cougars, players or friends with benefits.....it's all good. That is until you are pregnant and don't know who the baby daddy is...or you have gonnerhea or worse you have AIDS. Homosexual men just happen to be more likely to contract AIDS which spotlights their lifestyles more than the other people out their defiling themselves.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Not all homosexuals are promiscuous, in fact many are in long-term relationships with a single person, and in states where it's legal, many gay couples get married. Meanwhile, there are straight people who manage to sleep with 1932140032491742139 people, yet they don't get as harshly judged.

As for the pie chart thing, I love my French silk pie I make on occasion, and pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving. To me, it isn't Thanksgiving without pumpkin pie.

What are you going on about? No one in here claimed all homosexuals are promiscuous, nor did I say who was fornicating with who. Having sex with 75764574763463 people period spreads the virus. Also, please explain how exactly so many homosexuals would contract AIDS if they have never been promiscuous, as you claim? It's not as though they can reproduce and spread it to their offspring. Secondly, there's no feasible way bisexuals transmit the virus on a large scale from heterosexuals to homosexuals just based on the information involved in both the pie chart and the article.

[Moksha]

You forgot apple and pecan.

I knew I was going to disapoint George Washington fans by omitting apple, but I totally forgot about pecan pies. Let's squeeze that in there too. Please send all your excess pecans from now on to Utah.

Maybe it should be expanded to include apple and sweet potato pie.

[pam]

I kinda like an ol' chicken pot pie sometimes too.

[PrinceofLight2000]

I kinda like an ol' chicken pot pie sometimes too.

The only downside to those is that you have to wait forever for the insides to cool off enough to eat.

[MarginOfError]

Heterosexuals and HIV

There is a pie chart.

Ugh...no self respecting statistician should ever use a pie chart.

[MarginOfError]

What are you going on about? No one in here claimed all homosexuals are promiscuous,

Nonetheless, any rational person who reads your comment in context would likely come to the conclusion that your implication was that homosexuals are promiscuous. If that wasn't what you wanted to say, you are equally at fault for not being particularly clear.

nor did I say who was fornicating with who. Having sex with 75764574763463 people period spreads the virus. Also, please explain how exactly so many homosexuals would contract AIDS if they have never been promiscuous, as you claim?

He never implied that such was his claim. He simply said "not all" are promiscuous and "many" are monogamous. You've chosen to extend that current state of monogamy into the past. This is equally erroneous as ADoyle not recognizing that the current state of affairs does not necessarily reflect the past (thus, for that part, he should bear a part of the responsibility for any misunderstanding).

In any case, the high rate of HIV/AIDS among homosexuals is rooted in the fact that there were such steep social consequences for being an outed homosexual in times past. Being discovered meant being ostracized and disowned for many people. It meant being cast out, mocked, and beat up. With such steep penalties, many homosexuals chose to live their sexual yearnings anonymously, or at least without monogamy. Having a steady partner was too risky...it was too easy to be found out. When the social pressure to avoid being found out was reduced, and as homosexuality has gained more acceptance in society, monogamy has begun to be the norm. Today, the HIV/AIDS 'problem' among homosexual men is largely affected by a history of non-acceptance and advances in medical treatment that allow us to keep AIDS patients alive almost indefinitely.

It's not as though they can reproduce and spread it to their offspring. Secondly, there's no feasible way bisexuals transmit the virus on a large scale from heterosexuals to homosexuals just based on the information involved in both the pie chart and the article.

I'm not sure what your point is here, but it's a statistically unbalanced question. You've failed to adjust for baseline infection rates. If you were to do so, you'd probably see that transmission happens in both directions just as frequently as a proportion of infected subjects.

Edited September 27, 2010 by MarginOfError
"any rational person" originally read "any rational purpose"

[Wingnut]

Don't really like that pie chart. I prefer this rank order pie chart list:

1. Berry Pies: Boysenberry, blueberry, raspberry, black, logan, lingon, goose berries.

2. Key Lime Pie

3. Kahlua Cream Pie

4. Chocolate Cheesecake with raspberry topping

5. Snickers Bar Pie

6. Boston Cream Pie

7. Pumpkin Pie

8. Lemon Meringue

9. Chocolate Cream

10. Strawberry Pie

This is a much better pie chart.

I know it's already been mentioned, but really -- how could you omit apple? Cheesecake, as much as I love it, is not a pie, and should not have replaced the apple fare.

[GaySaint]

For what it is worth, the gay blogs have been burning up with anger about how these stats have been represented. The report all these stats are based on says the following: "Finally, these findings are limited to men who frequented MSM-identified venues (most of which were bars [45%] and dance clubs [22%]) during the survey period in 21 [metropolitan statistical areas] with high AIDS prevalence; the results are not representative of all MSM. A lower HIV prevalence has been reported among MSM in the general U.S. population.”

Prevalence and Awareness of HIV Infection Among Men Who Have Sex With Men --- 21 Cities, United States, 2008

I'm certain that if I went to any bar or dance clubs, I would find a higher level of promiscuity among these people than I would if I surveyed the general population, and most likely a higher rate of STD infection.

Also, it should be noted that it is currently socially acceptable for gays to be promiscuous. It isn't an excuse, obviously, but not allowing gays access to society's accepted form of monogamy doesn’t exactly promote monogamous gays. I'm reminded of this quote from Thomas Moore:

"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them.”

Just my two cents. Obviously the causes for all of this is complicated, but I don't think we can ignore society's role in not promoting monogamous gay relationship (nor do I think we can ignore the fact that, as Prince pointed out, promiscuity is simply immoral).

PS: I prefer cherry, if someone is making pies :)

Edited September 27, 2010 by GaySaint

[bytor2112]

Also, it should be noted that it is currently socially acceptable for gays to be promiscuous. It isn't an excuse, obviously, but not allowing gays access to society's accepted form of monogamy doesn’t exactly promote monogamous gays. I'm reminded of this quote from Thomas Moore:

Uh huh...right. So, without a government seal of approval...marriage...gays can't be expected to be monogamous???? Might want to re-examine that one.

[Soulsearcher]

Uh huh...right. So, without a government seal of approval...marriage...gays can't be expected to be monogamous???? Might want to re-examine that one.

Actually, it's more like with society telling us that no matter which way we act, unless we change who we are, we are just as damned if we are monogamous as we are if we are promiscuous. Once you are told you have no moral compass, why try to strive to live to any morals, we've already been told it doesn't matter cause we are lost. The denial of marriage is just an extension of the need to remind gays they can never meet the moral code and that even if we try to live different than the perception it means nothing in the eyes many.

[GaySaint]

Bytor: Of course it is more complicated than that, and to give the full impression of what I mean when I say that we might have to have a face to face conversation that would be very lengthy... haha. But yes, as Soulsearcher alluded, the fact that regardless of how we act or what we do, society doesn't accept a monogamous gay couple AS a couple, some even going as far as to say we don't deserve the word "family," does lead to the attitude a lot of gay people had, especially during the 60s and 70s, that monogamy was "heteronormative" and therefore "undesired."

In other words, as Ronald Gold has said, "Nothing is more likely to make you sick than being constantly told that you are sick."

[bytor2112]

You do realize don't you....that even if g/l marriage were to become the law of the land it likely would not lead people to believe that it was a moral union and might even further divide?

The problem you have is thus:

1. Many see homosexuals as deviant.

2. Many see homosexuals as only a perverse desire to have sex with their same sex.

3. Many think that allowing this type of union is mockery because homosexuals are not a different race or gender or species. They are people who prefer the intimate companionship of their own gender.

4. Many have religious beliefs that will prevent them from ever seeing this in a different light.

[Soulsearcher]

You do realize don't you....that even if g/l marriage were to become the law of the land it likely would not lead people to believe that it was a moral union and might even further divide?

The problem you have is thus:

1. Many see homosexuals as deviant.

2. Many see homosexuals as only a perverse desire to have sex with their same sex.

3. Many think that allowing this type of union is mockery because homosexuals are not a different race or gender or species. They are people who prefer the intimate companionship of their own gender.

4. Many have religious beliefs that will prevent them from ever seeing this in a different light.

Many people see many things, doesn't make them right. People have seen lots of things over the years and have come to see they were wrong or misinformed. Religious beliefs don't have to change, nor do i expect them to, but if people wonder why things are the way they are, sometimes it's best to ask the people in the situations rather than doing guess work.

[GaySaint]

Bytor: I am less concerned with how outsiders see us, and more concerned with how that view affects how we view ourselves. If a gay person is promiscuous because he believes he'll never be able to have a stable monogamous relationship (because that is what society tells him), I think that is sad. If society's accepted form of monogamy were available to us, then regardless of what someone said to that person, he could always say, "well, I can get married, so you're wrong; my relationship can mean something other than a 'feel-good-until-the-next-best-thing-comes-along' moment" His perception of himself then changes into something more positive.

And I don't know why we wouldn't want to promote that.

Or you can look at it this way: how many people have had to rely on the fact that they made a promise to their spouse in order to stay with that person? How many times, in a relationship, does that promise actually come into play? I think a lot. I think people on these forums have commented as to how they are working toward their marriage, through many trials, because they are married and want to stay married.

Gay people don't get that. They don't get society's backing to help them work things out and stay together. Now obviously society doesn't really care about you and your marriage, particulalry, but being a part of that greater institution gives you the perception that it does. Does that make sense?

In the church it is even more greatly evident. You view marriage the way you do because of how the church 'society' views it. It is stronger to you not because your love is any greater for the person you care about than someone married outside of the church could have, but because it is 'percieved' to be greater because of the sealing.

Am I just rambling now?