Protest for gay rights outside Mormon church offices

[pam]

Changes were made to Pres. Packers talk:

ksl.com - LDS Church addresses changes made to Pres. Packer's talk

[curtishouse]

Does the Book of Mormon say anything about homosexuality?

[Justice]

Here it is again:

Newsroom - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Under the link "official statement same gender attraction."

[Soulsearcher]

Here it is again:

Newsroom - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Under the link "official statement same gender attraction."

K, Thank you that's the exact talk i keep quoting and members keep telling me I'm wrong. Gets very frustrating when i try to understand the church's position so i can try and make a little peace and keep getting told i don't understand.

[Justice]

It's probably because most people aren't schooled enough in the topic to understand the difference between SSA (or SGA) and SSR (or SGR) (G being gender).

It makes for a difficult discussion when the two are lumped together in one topic.

[captmoroniRM]

The Church is very clear on its position towards homosexuality. Why? Because the church is against all forms of immorality, including sexual immorality. Church leaders since day 1 have been crystal clear that sexual relations are only to happen within the bonds of marriage. Any sexual act outside of marriage whether heterosexual or homosexual is sin. The Lord has, through the mouth of his apostles and prophets, has removed any interpretation as to the fact that marriage is between man and woman. Anyone who says that the Church's position is unclear about it, really hasn't done their homework.

As to whether or not it is genetic or not, it does not matter. Just because one has a genetic predisposition to be an alcoholic, doesn't remove the agency that God has given them. The same goes with people who suffer with things like chemical imbalances that cause depression, or any other ailment that comes from having an imperfect body. The prophet Moroni declared that God gave unto men weakness, that they may be humbled and seek out the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to help them overcome their weakness. If there were a genetic predisposition, it would be yet another weakness that a person must overcome to obey the commandments of God. The Atonement of Christ will help them resist the temptations to sin, and fill them with joy and happiness unlike anything this world has to offer.

The words of the Prophets, Apostles, and the Lord are clear. But its not surprising that some find them confusing. The apostles in Christ's day didn't understand many things he taught. He taught in parables so that those in tune with the Spirit would find the treasures within them, while those who weren't ready to understand them, or those not spiritually tuned would be unable to see past the "story" on the surface.

As with anything, however, we can learn for ourselves what is true. If we are confused about the things we see in General Conference, let us study out those principles in our minds and seek the Lord in prayer, for any who lack wisdom should ask of God who giveth to all men liberally.

[Soulsearcher]

The Church is very clear on its position towards homosexuality. Why? Because the church is against all forms of immorality, including sexual immorality. Church leaders since day 1 have been crystal clear that sexual relations are only to happen within the bonds of marriage. Any sexual act outside of marriage whether heterosexual or homosexual is sin. The Lord has, through the mouth of his apostles and prophets, has removed any interpretation as to the fact that marriage is between man and woman. Anyone who says that the Church's position is unclear about it, really hasn't done their homework.

As to whether or not it is genetic or not, it does not matter. Just because one has a genetic predisposition to be an alcoholic, doesn't remove the agency that God has given them. The same goes with people who suffer with things like chemical imbalances that cause depression, or any other ailment that comes from having an imperfect body. The prophet Moroni declared that God gave unto men weakness, that they may be humbled and seek out the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to help them overcome their weakness. If there were a genetic predisposition, it would be yet another weakness that a person must overcome to obey the commandments of God. The Atonement of Christ will help them resist the temptations to sin, and fill them with joy and happiness unlike anything this world has to offer.

The words of the Prophets, Apostles, and the Lord are clear. But its not surprising that some find them confusing. The apostles in Christ's day didn't understand many things he taught. He taught in parables so that those in tune with the Spirit would find the treasures within them, while those who weren't ready to understand them, or those not spiritually tuned would be unable to see past the "story" on the surface.

As with anything, however, we can learn for ourselves what is true. If we are confused about the things we see in General Conference, let us study out those principles in our minds and seek the Lord in prayer, for any who lack wisdom should ask of God who giveth to all men liberally.

Again lol for i don't know how many times, The stance on Homosexual behavior is clear. As said in most of my previous posts in this thread and the entire reason for the protest is the way some members are taking this talk. It is very important for members to consider possible biological reasons to this "condition" because if they don't they have had a habit in the past of missing the mark and telling the gay members that they are completely at fault for the fact they have no gotten rid of their desires. EVEN if the member IS NOT acting on their urges members in the past have made it clear that the reason the person is still gay is because they are broken or not faithful enough, even when living the gospel and being chaste. This is what has lead to the high rate of gay teen suicides in the church. Telling a kid who is doing everything right but still suffering that they are to blame, that they are broken and not good enough even when following the exact direction of the church is an issue. For a large number of members if you remove the possibility of any biological factor the blame has been placed on selfish kids just not trying. When they hear this from their parents, members of their wards, their church leaders, it takes a huge toll and is so against the teachings of the church it's not even funny. The church for over a decade has removed the topic of origin of homosexuality from the debate. It has focused only on homosexual relations and that's where the focus need to remain. There is nothing wrong with being gay, there is a problem with acting on it, been said many times by many different authorities in the church.

[mod edit: link removed]

Edited October 14, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[captmoroniRM]

I can see your point. Members need to know how to approach the situation rather than making them feel broken because they are still tempted. One of the most profound scriptures, to me, is Doctrine and Covenants 20:22. It reads:

"He [Christ] suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them."

I found this scripture on my mission and it opened my mind. Christ, the Savior of the world and the only sinless man suffered temptations. Though I knew he was tempted in the desert, this idea made sense. Christ lived a mortal life. He suffered the same temptations and earthly trials we do. Even Christ had to deal with same temptations we face. He just gave them no heed.

I think many members who don't approach subjects like SSA can offend or hurt someone who is doing their best and suffering through there temptations.

Another point that many need to remember, on both sides , that whatever the reason one might feel tempations...including some genetic predisposition....the answer is the same. The Atonement of Jesus Christ is the key to strength to overcome all.

[Melissa569]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that people are born gay.

These days, everyone is trying to blame things on genetics, to keep from being judged, or held responsible-- eating disorders, being gay, being an alcoholic, a drug addict, a sex addict, a killer, and the list goes on.

Well, even if genetics are to blame, does that mean we should just give up? Let it consume us? Let all the criminals out of prison because its "not their fault"?

I don't think so. Regardless of "why" it happens, we still need to put effort into keeping a handle on it.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Melissa569

[cofchristcousin]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that people are born gay.

These days, everyone is trying to blame things on genetics, to keep from being judged, or held responsible-- eating disorders, being gay, being an alcoholic, a drug addict, a sex addict, a killer, and the list goes on.

Well, even if genetics are to blame, does that mean we should just give up? Let it consume us? Let all the criminals out of prison because its "not their fault"?

I don't think so. Regardless of "why" it happens, we still need to put effort into keeping a handle on it.

This is an example of what I believe people are protesting at this time. The sin in your church's theology is "acting" on the attraction, but many people tell gays that the sin is "feeling" the attraction. Science has verified what lgtb folk have been saying, that there is a biological/psychological attraction for the same sex that functions and feels like just like heterosexual attraction. When that factor is ruled out by well-meaning but misinformed people... the very people a person trusts to represent God's Truth.... then every moment the gay person has a feeling of attraction float through their brain they are filled with guilt, believing they are unredeemably weak-willed and unfaithful. It would be comparable to every time you feel hungry you would be reminded that God rejects you for eternity for feeling hunger. The protesters are saying that it is not a sin to feel the biologically based attraction, and that telling young gay people that it is brings them needless and significant pain and suffering, and sometimes a person becomes vulnerable enough that they take their own life.

Many people accept that acting on same sex attraction is a sin, but they are calling the church to not make it worse for the people by telling them that the feeling itself is their weakness and a sin. That is what disregarding the biological factors implies.

Edited October 9, 2010 by cofchristcousin

[Bini]

I believe some people are born homosexual. And, there are some people who choose to be homosexual or bisexual. I'm not up to date on the latest studies regarding this issue but believing that every single homosexual out there has chosen to be attracted to the same gender is ridiculous. If there is any evidence of proof that children can be born with such "condition", I think the Church and its members should at least realise that not everyone is gay because they want to be. I can't tell you how many times my nephew cried hating himself over being born different. He did not come out until a couple years ago but just his general mannerism in school was enough to draw attention from other kids and to be a target. He did NOT choose to be gay.

[Justice]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that people are born gay.

It just means you don't understand what it means to "be gay." Comments like this are the ones that cause division. You lump the attraction in with the relations, and by doing so condemn those who are born with Same Gender Attraction simply because they were born with an imbalance of some kind; an inclination to be attracted to members of the same sex.

Did you read ANY of the link I provided from the church web site? You couldn't have and still retain your opinion.

After relating inclinations to same sex attraction as being no different than many other challenges in life, like tendancies toward anger, Elder Oaks was asked this question:

PUBLIC AFFAIRS: If we were to look back at someone who had a ‘short fuse,’ and we were to look at their parents who might have had a short fuse, some might identify a genetic influence in that.

ELDER OAKS: No, we do not accept the fact that conditions that prevent people from attaining their eternal destiny were born into them without any ability to control. That is contrary to the Plan of Salvation, and it is contrary to the justice and mercy of God. It’s contrary to the whole teaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which expresses the truth that by or through the power and mercy of Jesus Christ we will have the strength to do all things. That includes resisting temptation. That includes dealing with things that we’re born with, including disfigurements, or mental or physical incapacities. None of these stand in the way of our attaining our eternal destiny. The same may be said of a susceptibility or inclination to one behavior or another which if yielded to would prevent us from achieving our eternal destiny.

Do you honestly think people make a choice at a young age that they will be attracted to those of the same sex? Did you make a choice when you were young to be attracted to the opposite sex? Or, was that just the way you were born? Notice Elder Oaks says these feelings can be controlled, and that's what needs to be addressed. Many wonder why they need to control them when "nature made them that way." That is the REAL issue. It is about having an understanding of what is right and wrong, not legal or illegal, or even equality.

I hope you give this study and prayer, and deeply ponder on it. SSA or SGA is NOT a choice. I suggest before you make comments like that that you learn more about it first. You may find yourself saying something you'll regret later.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Justice

[Justice]

The Church is very clear on its position towards homosexuality. Why? Because the church is against all forms of immorality, including sexual immorality.

The Church is against homosexual BEHAVIOR. They have said that the tendancies toward same sex attration is a greater challenge for some. They recognize the tendancy toward attraction as something people are born with, and therefore view it is a trial or temptation.

We must be clear when we say the Church is against homosexuality. The Church is against the behavior, but loves all who are faced with greater tendancies toward being attracted to those of the same sex. Trials like that are what drive the need for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We all have our trials and have all given in to those that affect us.

The attraction is not immoral, it is a trial or tempation that must be dealt with like any other.

It boggles my mind how a man can be attracted to another man in this way. From my inner fiber I cannot really understand what it must be like. But, that makes it all the more important that I seek to understand, lest I am found without charity.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Yet some are preset hermaphrodites..

Those factors also include a persons genotype among other things. So what he is saying when you get to the bottom of it is that homosexuals have no control over it. I hate to break it to Mr. Dean Byrd -- but the psyche of a person is largely biological [and inheritable] (this is why things like depression and other mental instabilities run in families). So, in his opinion, it is half biological (and subsequently God given) and half environmental.

Which is an entirely fair statement.. but to act like there is nothing biological behind it.. is silly IMO.

The faults of our corrupted Telestial body are not God given, they are as a result of the fall. This is what creates the probationary period we find ourselves in, or the test. It is a struggle between carnal and spiritual drives as we are dual beings, physical and spirit. In this life the physical speaks louder than the spirit. It takes effort to listen to the spirit, if not the default is to listen only to the carnal drives and then a person believes that that is who they are, they hear no other voice or feel no other influence.

There is a way to reduce the influences of the carnal and so God hasn't left us alone in that struggle. But without the balance of Christ' help the carnal always wins out.

The factors you speak of are only "half biological and half environmental" if the spiritual influence is zero. But the spiritual influence can account for way more than half if allowed.

[skalenfehl]

I haven't posted in ages, but this topic is close to me. I have many dear friends who are gay or lesbian. My testimony is unwavering and I stand with our prophet. However, sometimes I cannot help but wonder that perhaps (regardless of whether or not someone is born a certain way or whatever), the greater test of people's conditions is not so much for their sakes but for the sake of everyone else.

How often do we see people showing true compassion and Christ-like love for someone who is different? I love my gay brothers and sisters and my heart goes out to those who are trying to make sense of this. The tragedy is the confusion and especially the low self esteem that it produces in someone young and impressionable to the point where their self worth is diminished to nothing. And they commit suicide.

I found this posted on the Facebook wall of a gay friend of mine, who has roots in our church:

Letter to Elder Boyd K. Packer on Mormon homosexuals

I don't know if I'm beating a dead horse here. I haven't read through the entire thread, but this is my contribution to the matter because I see more discussion on whether someone is born gay or not, thus passing judgment, instead of what we can do to be a positive force in their lives. How much love and compassion do we show to those near to us who are gay? Perhaps we have yet to receive further light and knowledge from the Lord but for now the church's stance, in my opinion, is clear.

I'm preaching to the choir here, but for all the lurkers at large, just know that whatever any one of us endures in this life, know this. Christ, in His mortal life, descended below us all. It doesn't matter if He was born a certain way. He fulfilled His measure of creation and most admirably. Are any of us greater than Him?

One final thought. The word "hate" is so overused and thrown around like a cheap rag in the world. I personally have not been accused of hating, but as a member of a faith where our leaders are accused of "hating", all I can think of is the following scripture, for those in the world who truly do hate:

John 15:17-18

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Edited October 9, 2010 by skalenfehl

[RachelleDrew]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that people are born gay.

These days, everyone is trying to blame things on genetics, to keep from being judged, or held responsible-- eating disorders,.

I'm sorry, but do you even understand how eating disorders work? I was a little appalled at several things in your post, but lumping in Anorexia (a problem that is not of your own creation) with something like crack addiction (certainly something that a person could have stopped before it started) is a little ridiculous.

[Jenamarie]

Whenever I hear someone say "They CHOSE to be gay!" I always think "WHY on EARTH would someone CHOOSE that, especially someone born and raised in the church, knowing the immense challenges that come along with being gay in our current society?" Do they just get their kicks out of shocking people? Out of being looked upon with revulsion? Out of being spit on? Out of being bullied constantly at school? What on earth is the draw? Even drugs, eating disorders, and alcohol have their "perks" (the "high", being "skinny enough",etc.) What benefit is there in "choosing" homosexuality that makes all of the cr@p that comes with it worth it, unless it's being true to yourself? However a person came to be gay (birth circumstances, life circumstances, whatever) we need to show them compassion and support in their honest efforts to try and deal with the trial they've been given. Certainly the adulturous woman chose to commit adultry, but the Savior still extended His grace and mercy to her. Should we do any less for those who trials are perhaps not of their making?

[Soulsearcher]

So some how i missed skalenfehl's post and i'm so glad i just happened to go back. In his post he's included a link to a letter written to Elder Packer. I can't make anyone read it, but i ask with all my heart that everyone does. The father writing this letter has touched on every emotion, fear and thought that I myself have had and never been able to communicate. I know many might pick the letter apart or find fault with a father questioning a GA, but i still beg people to read and take to heart this man's words.

[Bini]

Jenamarie, this is the thing though.. There are no perks with an eating disorder. I've battled with an ED on and off since I was a preteen and I've never felt "skinny enough". Sorry off topic but I had to respond to this after it had been mentioned several times now.

But even so, even if people CHOOSE to do this or that to themselves, we are always supposed to have compassion towards them — no matter how much we hate what they are doing or what they have become. God and Jesus would bear hug every one of us.

[Maya]

One thig the gays dont understand (and tose making a big noice over thsi thing) is that EVERYBODY has temptations. Some break the law of marriage some break the low of chasity! It really is not that different we all are tempted, we all fall. Often people put sins in a line: the worst big sinn to little sin, but to God they all are equal!

It is really sad that those with SGF feel they are sinners. A report from a scientist telling them it is genetic could realy spread relief among them. But unfortunately it has not come yet maybe it never comes...

I dont know why some of us have really big burdens, big sores to carry all our life. We can not help it either where we are born, we can not help if something goes wrong in the birth and we are cp rest of our life.

I think mostly it is a problem with our attitude. I dont mean that we stop calling a sinn a sinn, but we need to try to change our attitude to more suppostative for gays. A gay kid in a kindergarten or in the school and later at work, CAN be very difficult and disturbing when the person his/her love is aimed at dont want to paly the game.

Once I was a head of a kindergarten and a female couple searched a place for their kid (made with a mencouple). I could not give them a place as there were some sisters coming in and an other that had been a very long time on the list. So I sent them a note like usually saying sorry... Then suddenly one of the kids moved. So I liiked at the lsit and the child of this couple was next in line ... so I called them. I told them that we ahve got a place now if they wanted it.... all I got as an naswer was hollow horryfieing laughter. Somewher in between she managed to say no. I am sure they tought that I did not take their kid to begin with, as they were a female couple and they had decide to pay back when I now "in my missery to fill the places" even called to them. Well I had many more on the list so taht was no problem. It is amazing how gays take an answer that is NO!

[Dravin]

Kay Soul, I'm gonna run some of what you are saying through my filter and see if I'm garbling it. It seems straight forward but I've been know to have brain malfunctions.

Actually this is a little more difficult to run through an equivalence filter than I thought it would be.

It would be like me, a heterosexual, understanding I need to not act on my desires. Nobody has issue with that (at least nobody is begrudging the church telling me such). However it would be like if it was taken beyond that and I was told that my inability to be asexual, to not have my sexual desires instead of suppressing them, is a moral failing. That I'm not praying, reading, working enough, or having enough faith. My inability to be asexual is my own dang fault and I need to stop choosing to be heterosexual until I'm married.

Not a perfect analogy but if I'm reading you right it has some analagous merit. So, if I'm not misconstruing you I can see how that would cause a whole host of (mental and spiritual) issues above and beyond, "don't act on it."

[Soulsearcher]

One thig the gays dont understand (and tose making a big noice over thsi thing) is that EVERYBODY has temptations. Some break the law of marriage some break the low of chasity! It really is not that different we all are tempted, we all fall. Often people put sins in a line: the worst big sinn to little sin, but to God they all are equal!

It is really sad that those with SGF feel they are sinners. A report from a scientist telling them it is genetic could realy spread relief among them. But unfortunately it has not come yet maybe it never comes...

I dont know why some of us have really big burdens, big sores to carry all our life. We can not help it either where we are born, we can not help if something goes wrong in the birth and we are cp rest of our life.

I think mostly it is a problem with our attitude. I dont mean that we stop calling a sinn a sinn, but we need to try to change our attitude to more suppostative for gays. A gay kid in a kindergarten or in the school and later at work, CAN be very difficult and disturbing when the person his/her love is aimed at dont want to paly the game.

Once I was a head of a kindergarten and a female couple searched a place for their kid (made with a mencouple). I could not give them a place as there were some sisters coming in and an other that had been a very long time on the list. So I sent them a note like usually saying sorry... Then suddenly one of the kids moved. So I liiked at the lsit and the child of this couple was next in line ... so I called them. I told them that we ahve got a place now if they wanted it.... all I got as an naswer was hollow horryfieing laughter. Somewher in between she managed to say no. I am sure they tought that I did not take their kid to begin with, as they were a female couple and they had decide to pay back when I now "in my missery to fill the places" even called to them. Well I had many more on the list so taht was no problem. It is amazing how gays take an answer that is NO!

Maya, it's not that we don't understand, if you've actually read my posts I have covered that many times as have other gay members on the site. Did you by chance read the letter that was linked that i referred to? If you didn't then i suggest you do, it covers everything from the perspective of a very faithful member of the church and explains what the very real issues are. It seems a great many are missing what all the talk is really about. The talk isn't about not taking NO or not accepting that the church see's gay sex as wrong. We very clearly understand that part of the church's stance. The biggest issue is that gay members still face the unwillingness of members to listen and learn. A large number of members have their minds made up on all aspects of homosexuality and refuse to actually listen to or talk to homosexuals to learn. LDS usually say go to the source to learn. Ask LDS about LDS. But LDS don't want to listen to homosexual a large part of the time. They don't want to hear why we hate ourselves, or why we live in fear, or what certain words from the church do to us. Believe it or not most of us don't want the church to change how it views the sin. It is what it is and while we may disagree then that's fine. We want the people to listen, to understand that to love the sinner you actually need to listen to and understand the sinner. With your opening line you show Maya that you haven't listened or understood because you have missed the point. Please read the letter posted by skalenfehl. it explains to members from a members point of view and might carry more weight than an outsiders words. You come to the right conclusion that people need to be more understanding but with your own opening line you show that you still aren't understanding.

Also quite amazing how most of humanity takes the answer "NO!" not sure i see the point in pointing to one group.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Soulsearcher

[Soulsearcher]

Kay Soul, I'm gonna run some of what you are saying through my filter and see if I'm garbling it. It seems straight forward but I've been know to have brain malfunctions.

Actually this is a little more difficult to run through an equivalence filter than I thought it would be.

It would be like me, a heterosexual, understanding I need to not act on my desires. Nobody has issue with that (at least nobody is begrudging the church telling me such). However it would be like if it was taken beyond that and I was told that my inability to be asexual, to not have my sexual desires instead of suppressing them, is a moral failing. That I'm not praying, reading, working enough, or having enough faith. My inability to be asexual is my own dang fault and I need to stop choosing to be heterosexual until I'm married.

Not a perfect analogy but if I'm reading you right it has some analagous merit. So, if I'm not misconstruing you I can see how that would cause a whole host of (mental and spiritual) issues above and beyond, "don't act on it."

One change

My inability to be asexual is my own dang fault and I need to stop choosing to be heterosexual until I'm married.

You need to stop being heterosexual forever because you in no way are ever allowed to act on your desires because those desires alone are a sin equal to fornication and by having those desires at all you are not working hard enough and there fore are a failure.

[TheActualLiz]

The Church has made official statements. They have been linked in this forum over and over.

SSA (Same Sex Attraction) is a chemical or hormonal imbalance of some kind (not really understood), but absolutely in many (or most or all) situations people are born with.

The idea that most people have a choice regarding their gender attraction is something I can agree with. There was a point in my life when I thought all people were born bisexual (like me) and that everybody had a choice. I have since met a couple of people who were actually born 100% straight. It took me a while to believe that these heterosexual people were actually born that way and not just 99% straight.

The cases that convinced me were ones where all variables had been taken out: no social pressure, no religion, no inhibition, much more convenient to be gay, more options in partners if gay but still straight in every way.

My theory is that there is some kind of bell curve here. On each end there is a small minority who are born 100% gay or straight. As you approach the middle where it is a 50/50 split you have an increasing number of people who fall into categories of 90%, 80%, 70%, etc.

Since the words of the prophet are meant to address the majority rather than a few extreme cases I can agree with the Church's strong stand against homosexuality.

SSR (Same Sex Relation) is NOT the same thing as a "condition," it is an act and as such can be decided upon.

It is not all that much unlike when a man or woman has an attraction to someone of the opposite sex they are not married to. A man or woman did not choose at birth to be attracted to the opposite sex. But, he or she can control the relational behavior.

Again I agree from a theological standpoint.

I was blessed with a choice and eventually I made the right choice where I am happily married to a wonderful man and embrace monogamy within our marriage. I strongly believe that in cases such as mine self control can be learned and compassionate council with Church leaders and LDS Family Services can be useful.

Those who were not born with a choice over which gender they are attracted to is a fairly complicated issue and I am not sure what the best way to handle this is. I do know that many people throughout history have tried to force truly gay people to live a straight lifestyle and that has been an epic failure.

149 BCE – The Lex scantinia, a Roman law, regulates homosexuality for the first time on record. According to the law, homosexuality should be denied between adult males and for male prostitution to protect the youth of noble families. It is probable that such a law was meant to prevent the possibility of an adult noble-born male becoming subject to sodomy by a slave.

165 – Christian martyr Giustino writes: "We have learned that is an evil thing to show newborns, since we see that almost everyone, not only the girls but boys too, are forced into prostitution"

244–249 – Emperor Philip the Arab tries and fails to outlaw homosexual prostitution.

342 – The first law against same-sex marriage was promulgated by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans.

390 – In the year 390, the Christian emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be burned alive in front of the public.

693 – In Iberia, Visigothic ruler Egica of Hispania and Septimania, demanded that a Church council confront the problem of homosexuality in the Kingdom. The Sixteenth Council of Toledo issued a statement in response, which was adopted by Egica, stating that homosexual acts be punished by castration, exclusion from Communion, hair shearing, one hundred stripes of the lash, and banishment into exile.

1120 – Baldwin II of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, convenes the Council of Nablus to address the vices within the Kingdom. The Council calls for the burning of individuals who perpetually commit sodomy.

1260 – In France, first-offending sodomites lost their testicles, second offenders lost their member, and third offenders were burned. Women caught in same-sex acts could be mutilated and executed as well.

These are a few examples from the Wikipedia article Timeline of LGBT history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think that from these examples we can learn quite a bit about how to handle homosexuality both from the theological and the legal standpoint.

1. It is imperative to love all God's children, including those who's behavior we cannot condone. Remember that Christ said that the greatest commandment was to love the Lord thy God and the second is to love thy neighbor as thyself. Since the analogy has been drawn between homosexual behavior and other sexual sins such as fornication and adultery (best comparison so far IMO) then perhaps it is best to treat all three of these sins as equals , judge not lest we be judged, and let he who is perfect among us cast the first stone.

2. Secular laws against homosexuality are not going to stop gay people from being gay. Even when the extremes of Roman persecution, the Inquisition, and many other cases that included torture and/or the death penalty homosexuality continued to exist.. The LDS church has every right to deny recognition of gay marriage as a religious ritual, just as the Catholic church has the right to refuse to recognize divorces and re-marriages that frequently happen in modern society. Christ had a very good point when he told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's.

3. I strongly believe in the separation of church and state and think about a few New Testament references about mixing the two. My greatest concern with this is the potential for the political world to corrupt the Church and it's members.

4. A few verses from the New Testament come to mind, but I could be misinterpreting them so please feel free to correct me. Matthew 22 verses 14 to 21; John 18:36; Matthew 6 verses 12 to 15; Matthew 18 verses 21 to 35;

[Dravin]

One change

You need to stop being heterosexual forever because you in no way are ever allowed to act on your desires because those desires alone are a sin equal to fornication and by having those desires at all you are not working hard enough and there fore are a failure.

True, it works better than the genetic craving of beer analogy that first popped into my head though.