seminary teacher revealing parts of temple ceremonies

[lizzy16]

So far this year my seminary teacher has revealed two parts of sacred temple ceremonies. While everyone who goes to seminary is temple bound I don't think its appropriate, obviously.

He's an interesting character. He's not the teacher type. He doesn't handle people talking to him about problems very well. I've addressed him before about something I didnt think was true doctrine (It wasn't!) and he really snapped and got angry.

I'm not sure what to do? I told him that he probably shouldn't share these sacred things with us but then he did it again today.

Edited February 10, 2011 by john doe
there is a big difference between 'reviled' and 'revealed'

[Just_A_Guy]

There are very, very few parts of the temple ceremony that we're specifically forbidden from repeating. The rest, we're advised to keep it sacred by not repeating it often; but under certain circumstances it may be OK to discuss.

These types of things are very subjective, and you're at a further disadvantage because (not to be condescending) you haven't been through the temple ceremony yet. Probably the best thing to do is discuss the situation with your bishop or CES coordinator.

[slamjet]

Talk to your parents and/or Bishop. Any part of the Temple Ceremony spoken of in specifics is inappropriate.

[Optimistic_Trish]

Often too many members think you can't talk about what goes on in the temple at all but that isn't the case there are very few parts we are told not to ever reveal. We do need to remember to keep it sacred though. I think just a guy said it best, I'd take his advice.

[Jenamarie]

Often too many members think you can't talk about what goes on in the temple at all but that isn't the case there are very few parts we are told not to ever reveal. We do need to remember to keep it sacred though. I think just a guy said it best, I'd take his advice.

I agree. I mean, how many of us knew before we'd been through the Temple that a Sealing ceremony involved kneeling across an alter from your very-soon-to-be-spouse? My Seminary teacher also sometimes talked about what went on inside the Temple, and in hindsight it wasn't anything that I feel (now, as an endowed member) was inappropriate for her to share. There are Sacred parts, but they are few. A lot of the ceremony is just the structure around the Sacred parts (eg. most every member knows that part of the ceremony is conducted via video, and who "stars" in that video, but what the video teaches and the script of the movie contain Sacred information that is inappropriate for outside-the-temple discussions. You can talk about there being a veil, but not what is said/done AT the veil. And of course you can talk about the Celestial Room and the peace that resides there).

[skippy740]

He's an interesting character. He's not the teacher type. He doesn't handle people talking to him about problems very well. I've addressed him before about something I didnt think was true doctrine (It wasn't!) and he really snapped and got angry.

Perhaps you need to learn how to share your concerns without offending people.

There's a good book out there: How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. It's a good book.

Here's an idea to ponder: Did you ASK him about the point of doctrine... or did you TELL him your opinion?

If you had said "You shouldn't be teaching us this" he'll defend his ego and position.

If you had asked for clarification like "I'm confused. I've always been taught that everything in the temple is sacred... but you're sharing more than I've heard. Is it okay to talk about these things here in seminary?"

Can you tell the difference? In one instance, you're questioning his fitness to be a teacher. The other, you're asking for advice. AND in the asking of the question, you'll help him to re-evaluate his statements for himself. He'll either stand by them, or he may decide to rethink the way he teaches that doctrine.

Remember, you're the student and are there to learn. He is the teacher. Please show proper respect and sustain his efforts. (And yes, sustaining means to help him magnify his calling to his best ability. Keep helping... just do it tactfully.)

Edited February 10, 2011 by skippy740

[bytebear]

I remember reading the Boyd K Packer book about the temple and about how frank he was talking about some of the details. It kind of made me raise my eyebrows a bit, but I just make sure I am well on the safe side of the line he drew when discussing the temple.

As for the structure and altars, etc. There are plenty of pictures of the various rooms, and there is now a scale model of the Salt Lake Temple in the visitors' center which I think makes the whole mystery far less mysterious, so there's nothing particularly secret about any of that, although the rooms themselves are sacred. It is hollowed ground.

[Dravin]

The only way for us to know/weigh in if he's going too far is for you to disclose what he's been talking about. Thing is that has obvious problems, namely if you are right.

[volgadon]

Well, one of the seminary videos has a Brigham Young quote which explains what we recieve in the temple.

[Backroads]

The only way for us to know/weigh in if he's going too far is for you to disclose what he's been talking about. Thing is that has obvious problems, namely if you are right.

Let's go this way, then:

Is your teacher saying "such-n-such happens in the temple", "in the temple you do such-n-such", or "the temple ceremony is about such-n-such"? OR is he saying "In the temple, we go through excruciatingly detailed processes with steps 1, 2, 3, etc." or "Let me quote entire sections..."

I think there is a difference of saying a summary of what happens in the temple ceremony and practically quoting it and drawing a chart on the board for you. In the former, he's telling you generalities of what happens. In the latter, he's telling you sacred processes, giving more information then you're probably ready to receive.

I've had teachers in seminary, church, etc. who have also told us things about the temple ceremony, but in a rather general way. I knew "what happened" in the temple, but at the same time I didn't know "exactly what happened."

The temple isn't a cult, it just has sacred things that shouldn't be discussed inappropriately.

At the same time, I think a teacher can go too far and one always hears stories about crazy seminary teachers.

If you feel he's saying too much, approach him, but don't really accuse him. i like the ideas of asking him why he's going over this with you. There's also the "I" statement where you put everything back on you. You could say "I'm uncomfortable with all this temple talk" or something similar. You're expressing how you it makes you feel without saying he's horrible for bringing it up.

[prophetofdoom]

I think it would be extremely difficult for someone who hasn't been through the temple to judge whether someone is divulging too much.

[Wingnut]

...or "Let me quote entire sections..."

Even then, half the temple ceremony is pretty much straight out of the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.

[Backroads]

Even then, half the temple ceremony is pretty much straight out of the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.

Granted.

[rubondfan2]

To the OP, good counsel has been given within this thread, and from the varying responses, I think you can see that various folks have different opinions about what is or is not appropriate to discuss about the actual temple ceremonies themselves.

One poster mentioned the book by Elder Boyd K. Packer, "The Holy Temple". This is a great guide of where the line could be drawn. Elder Packer goes into great detail regarding the covenants, promises and blessings which come from entering the temple and receiving these sacred ordinances for oneself and/or performing those same ordinances for the dead. Where Elder Packer pulls up short is where each of us should be pulling up short.

Here's an example:

The sealing - A couple kneels across an alter from each other and takes each other by the hand. The room is simple, beautiful, and filled with invited, worthy loved ones who are there to support the couple in their marriage. Opposing mirrors on the walls behind husband and wife provide a symbolic view of the eternal nature of the relationship being entered into. The sealer then performs the ceremony using lanuguage specific to the ordinance.

To learn any more, one would need to enter into the temple and receive the ordinance for themselves or perform it for the dead.

Certainly repeating the actual words spoken in the various temple ordinances outside of the temple would be inappropriate. Even trying to teach ones personal idea of what the ordinances mean without even speaking the actual words is treading on sacred ground. I really don't see a need for anyone to try to explain in detail a specific ordinance or the covenants and promises disclosed within them outside of the temple.

There's no great mystery in there... just some very sacred covenants and promises, the understanding of which is best gained by entering worthily into the Lord's house over and over and over again... hearing... learning... feeling... and growing in knowledge and understanding poco a poco.

[lizzy16]

When he said the doctrinal incorrect thing (Tribe of manessah are of african descent.) I made sure i responded as well as I could. I didn't say "Thats wrong" I said something like "Where does it say that? I'd be interested in reading it I know someone from that tribe I am pretty sure there not of african descent."

When it was about the temple I approched it a similar way.

What he's sharing isn't members common knowledge. It's as far as I know a specific thing women do during their endowment that allows them something they don't normally do/have... He was quite detailed I'm stating it as vague as possible.

He didn't need to share this, we were just talking about the priesthood and it relates but it didn't need to be brought up.

Edited February 10, 2011 by lizzy16

[MarginOfError]

I haven't read everything in this thread. My only suggestion would be to talk to your parents about it. If they aren't comfortable with what was presented, they can approach your teacher or request that the bishop do so. I know you aren't one to ask someone else to take up your fights for you, but whereas you haven't been through the temple yourself, you're at somewhat of a disadvantage in this case.

[applepansy]

I strongly agree with everyone here who suggested talking to your parents about this. I think its very important, especially since you're uncomfortable with what he's teaching.

[lizzy16]

Okay, Thank You All.

[bytebear]

What he's sharing isn't members common knowledge. It's as far as I know a specific thing women do during their endowment that allows them something they don't normally do/have... He was quite detailed I'm stating it as vague as possible.

He didn't need to share this, we were just talking about the priesthood and it relates but it didn't need to be brought up.

I don't know that what was discussed is inappropriate in the right context.

We have been instructed to build temples so that holy ordinances may be performed for both the living and the dead. These ordinances include initiatory ordinances, endowments, marriages, sealings, baptisms for the dead, and ordinations.

The initiatory ordinances provide us with specific immediate and future blessings.

Holy Temples, Sacred Covenants

Initiatory ordinances are performed separately by gender, so women officiate over women.

I just realized it's a bit like Priesthood/Relief Society. Amazing how parallels reveal themselves.

I think your seminary teacher may be speculating on priesthood authority, but what he discussed is not specifically unspeakable.

[prisonchaplain]

I had this happen to me once. An inmate actually walked out of my service, appearing rather upset. I asked the others later, what set him off, and they said it was a fleeting reference I had made to former President Nixon. He was an older fellow, had very strong feelings about that adminstration, and felt I had inappropriately strayed into the political realm from my pulpit.

Now, to this day, I do not believe I was out of line. However, the Spirit gave me good wisdom, and I went and heard the fellow out. Then I said that I appreciated that he had been willing to talk to me about it, and that I would be more vigilante in the future about illustrations I used. I kept that promise, and I believe he did come back once or twice.

All that to say that the best teachers are willing to learn from their students, even if comments seem a bit aggressive or over the top. Then again, the best students will plum the depths of knowledge their teachers have...even when those teachers are not the best. We can learn something from just about anybody.

[CaptainEm]

Great advice on here. I wouldn't be afraid to mention to him that it made you uncomfortable.

I actually support the idea of discussing temple ceremonies in an environment like seminary--providing no one gets carried away. But with an intelligent teacher who is aiming to instruct rather than spread sacred things inappropriately, it should be fine.

Maybe your seminary teacher could explain why he's telling you what he's telling you.

[lizzy16]

I'm pretty sure He wouldn't care if it made me uncomfortable..he's...unique. He doesn't get that some things aren't socially acceptable. I think he has a touch of aspergers.

Could we lock this?