Are there more evil people than righteous ones?

[mightynancy]

Let's face it, the righteous followers of God have always been in the minority

This was in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it (more).

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

[PrinceofLight2000]

This was in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it (more).

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

Scripture says there are.

And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

Edited May 4, 2011 by PrinceofLight2000

[Soulsearcher]

This was in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it (more).

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

Not sure I'd say there are more evil people. There may be less seeking god's approval, but not sure calling those people evil is the best description and the way the question was posed might be why people have the opinions they do and why they make the musicals they do

[Corvus]

Well, when you look at it, not many people define themselves as evil. Even people like Stalin and Hitler thought they were doing the best things for themselves and their people. Now, objectively, yes, that was evil.

I personally feel that a lot of people are just trying to make the best of their lives. Now whether they trying from a self-centered point of view, or the view of someone who takes the long view....that's up for debate.

I think that very few people are evil and see themselves as such though.

[Dravin]

This was in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it (more).

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

Where do we classify someone who worships Zeus and does his best to gain his approval? How far off from true can your concept of deity be before we say you aren't loving him but some other construct? I mean an atheist certainly isn't doing what they can to gain God's approval*, but was say an adherent of a South American human sacrificing religion, assuming he was doing what he was doing in accordance of his understanding of God(s) and what they/he demanded qualify as a righteous follower of God by your definition?

* Hard to seek the approval of something you don't believe exists.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Dravin

[Blackmarch]

This was in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it (more).

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

such is a minority, as is the kind that also earnestly seek god out side of the LDS church is also another minority.

Does that mean everyone else is out to actively do the devil's work? no.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Blackmarch

[cj06]

I think that the majority of people want to do good but then there comes some one ( or groups of them ) that wants all of the power at any and all cost and does what ever it can to get the power . When that happens a lot of good people get hurt and then get angry because they have always been fair in there dealings with other people , they may not have had a strong testimony in god and may not have been as prepared as they should have , then they will make decisions that are not the best or could be even called dumb ! To me it seems some times that there is a domino effect with people and when one gets hurt then they will hurt another ! my opinion on some people !

[Suzie]

These days and times, hard to tell.

[HEthePrimate]

I generally try to avoid labeling people "evil" or "righteous." As my Institute teacher says, people are "bundles of contradictions." In other words, we are all capable of both good and evil, and most of us actually do both good and evil. Placing a label on someone makes it very difficult for us to see anything they do that does not conform to that label. If you're convinced someone is good, it's harder to see the mistakes that she makes, or vice versa.

Something I saw in the news got me thinking. It was about how Khadaffi (or however you want to spell his name) is using human shields. I thought, "What a modern concept." A couple of thousand years ago, the human shield concept probably would not have worked. So the enemy leader surrounded himself with a bunch of civilians? No problem. We'll kill them all! But since the Biblical revelation has infected the entire world, even nations not yet converted to Christianity, modern people have more concern for innocent victims than people would have had in ancient times. And that is progress.

[rufuswhitman]

At what point is a person evil vs. righteous?

Each of us is imperfect, and therefore we have some good and some bad.

We may be surprised to know how few righteous there are in the church and few evil there are in the world (and also how many).

RW

[Traveler]

I have never yet met anyone, regardless of what they were about that thought themselves evil for doing so. When it comes to drawing a line between the good people and the evil people it seems to me that the line is always drawn so that the drawer and those they personally like are on the side of good and those that the drawer does not like are on the evil side.

Sometimes I think it is these tendencies to draw such lines and make it public that brings the greatest ill will, contension and loss of compassion among us.

The Traveler

[Netgood]

The light of Christ is given to every man to know good from evil. Everyone will choose an evil action once in awhile. An evil person is one who has deadened his ability to feel the light of christ through continued evil.

[prisonchaplain]

In God's eys "There is none righteous...not one." (Romans 3:10)

Even the redeemed battle against "the flesh" or "the old man."

There are roughly 15 million LDS in the world, 60% of whom are inactive. there are about 2.4 billion Christians (Protestant and Catholic), but again, how many are inactive, and how many who attend church are hypocrites?

And yet, we all bear the image of God within us, no matter how distorted.

So, as for individual assessment, it depends on context, and what you want to do with the information of who or how many are "righteous." None or all, depending on your standard.

[Jennarator]

We all have our weaknesses and trials. Someone can be really great in one things but struggle and slip up in another.

Evil, to me is someone purposefully trying to cause others to fall away from the church or it's teachings, not just someone struggling. So I would say maybe not more evil people, but more evil things on the earth to tempt us, and those evil things are being pushed stronger than ever by those that really are evil, making it harder for us that struggle.

[skippy740]

This was in another thread, and I didn't want to derail it (more).

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

No. I think there are more people who think the way we think than we think.

Part of the problem is how we can easily think of this view. Just watch the news and stay secluded from your neighbors, and you can think that there are "flames" everywhere but your own home. Think of what our country thinks of and likes for entertainment (certain movies, TV and other media) and you wonder how some people can like these things and still love God.

We need to get out more and connect with our community. You will find like-minded people like us. Yes, they are imperfect (just like we are). They smoke, drink, dress immodestly, etc, but there are many people with good hearts out there.

[jayanna]

The OP presents a question that has been asked many times in the history of the world...one of those times we can read about in the OT

2 Kings Chapter six...the king of Syria had decided to make war with Isreal. Elishah's servant was scared of the forces gathered by the king of Syria..

14Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.

15And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?

16And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

17And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Those that are with God have always outnumbered those that are not with Him. But it is not people that we need to worry about...

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[bytor2112]

We all live in glass houses, so probably best not to throw stones. I tend to view it more as we live in a very wicked world and a great many have succumbed to temptations that lead them from God.

[PrinceofLight2000]

We all live in glass houses, so probably best not to throw stones. I tend to view it more as we live in a very wicked world and a great many have succumbed to temptations that lead them from God.

I think we're safe in saying whether or not there are more evil people than good, just not who or why they are.

[Matthew0059]

Do you think that righteous people are truly the minority? I don't mean covenant-making, LDS-church-going, white-shirt-wearing people alone. I mean people who love God and do the best they can to gain His approval.

Covenant making =/= righteousness; covenant keeping == righteousness. Far too many members aren't keeping the covenants they make- and many of them go to church wearing white shirts. Anyway...

This will be a lot easier to tell when the Destroying Angels begin their work. There are many righteous people seeking GOD's approval both in and out of the Church, but I think many, mandy more are seeking their own idols and gods of the flesh.

One reason I believe this: in Doctrine and Covenants 76, which kingdom was described as having its inhabitants being as "innumerable as the stars"?

[LDSJewess]

Agreed that all are imperfect, but it's a matter of the glass empty versus half full. Some people think they are righteous when in reality thinking about their own self righteousness is hypocritical and egotistical and judgemental in thinking that they know what is truly in the hearts and minds of others.

Then we have people who are inherently good but they see themselves as bad and some become self loathing.

We are all free agents, and I believe that although we all make choices that are not what God would approve of and in turn are so not in our best interest, I would not classify that as evil versus righteous.

There are plenty of people that have made prro choices, perhaps experimented with drugs, smoked, had children out of wedlock, cheated on taxes, became drunk on alcohol and a myraid of other prro chpices, but those same people way in in spite of their own experiences and lot in life have a deep love for God and love their children, their spouses and work at self improvement and pray daily.

There are also the "men in white shirts" as the original post reads that are assumed to be righteous, but I have known more than one including one holding high office that beat his wife, refused to support his children, had a affair and was not all that we would assume necessary to hold a temple recommend.

So I think we see what we think we want to see and believe. No one ultimately can judge wh is evil and who is righteous except God.

[Matthew0059]

Did JESUS know HE was righteous? Did HE know HE was humble?

When he received the sealing power and the ability to command the elements in GOD'S name (Helaman 10:4-6), did Nephi realize that he was cleansed through the righteousness of HIS redeemer and therefore know that HE was righteous?

How many like that are on the Earth, opposed to the rest? That's another good question.

[ztodd]

Scripture says there are.

Let's take a little closer look -

1 Nephi 14:9-13

And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

The verses above are saying that the great and abominable church is the whore of all the earth. They say there are save two churches only, and whoever belongeth not to the church of the Lamb belongeth to the church whose founder is the devil.

The verses above did not say anything about whether the people who belong to either of these two "churches" are righteous or wicked. They only describe the two opposing forces which they call churches.

I think that these two "churches" described above are perhaps not an exact correlation to any existing churches or religions on the earth today. I think maybe it can be interpreted two different ways -

1. These verses are simply saying that we make a personal decision to either be on the Lord's side or we are not. If this is the case, I'm not sure why the word church was used, but it may be better interpreted as two sides instead of two churches.

2. These verses may be categorizing churches or organizations of our day based on their leadership, or the majority of their membership. In this case, it's also possible to have righteous people within these organizations.

We know that there are many good people in many different churches - our prophets have said so repeatedly, and the Spirit of the Lord can also confirm that to us when we use righteous judgment. I believe there are people in many different churches who are on the Lord's side - they are truly seeking to follow His will.

And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

I can definitely see how the whore of all the earth is increasing it's dominion over all the earth, over all people, in our day. The overall state of righteousness of the world I believe is definitely going down.

But these verses do not actually tell us which churches (by modern definition) belong to one side or the other, or if they are perhaps split down the middle in their membership.

Being on the Lord's side or on the adversary's is a personal decision and state of being.

And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

So, whatever the church of the lamb of God refers to in these verses, we know that the dominion of the saints who belong to this group is small upon the earth, because of the wickedness of the great and abominable church.

And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

This implies that church of abominations is going to have structure and leadership, which will gather together multitudes to fight against the church of the lamb. But I believe this structure and leadership can exist and come about various ways, whether through certain corrupt churches in our day, or through certain radical extremists, or false prophets.

.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Let's take a little closer look -

1 Nephi 14:9-13

And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

The verses above are saying that the great and abominable church is the whore of all the earth. They say there are save two churches only, and whoever belongeth not to the church of the Lamb belongeth to the church whose founder is the devil.

The verses above did not say anything about whether the people who belong to either of these two "churches" are righteous or wicked. They only describe the two opposing forces which they call churches.

I think that these two "churches" described above are perhaps not an exact correlation to any existing churches or religions on the earth today. I think maybe it can be interpreted two different ways -

1. These verses are simply saying that we make a personal decision to either be on the Lord's side or we are not. If this is the case, I'm not sure why the word church was used, but it may be better interpreted as two sides instead of two churches.

2. These verses may be categorizing churches or organizations of our day based on their leadership, or the majority of their membership. In this case, it's also possible to have righteous people within these organizations.

We know that there are many good people in many different churches - our prophets have said so repeatedly, and the Spirit of the Lord can also confirm that to us when we use righteous judgment. I believe there are people in many different churches who are on the Lord's side - they are truly seeking to follow His will.

And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

I can definitely see how the whore of all the earth is increasing it's dominion over all the earth, over all people, in our day. The overall state of righteousness of the world I believe is definitely going down.

But these verses do not actually tell us which churches (by modern definition) belong to one side or the other, or if they are perhaps split down the middle in their membership.

Being on the Lord's side or on the adversary's is a personal decision and state of being.

And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

So, whatever the church of the lamb of God refers to in these verses, we know that the dominion of the saints who belong to this group is small upon the earth, because of the wickedness of the great and abominable church.

And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

This implies that church of abominations is going to have structure and leadership, which will gather together multitudes to fight against the church of the lamb. But I believe this structure and leadership can exist and come about various ways, whether through certain corrupt churches in our day, or through certain radical extremists, or false prophets.

.

What a wonderful explanation. Bravo.