Whats wrong with shoulders?

[Nahilolo]

Hey Everyone!

I just have a question involving clothing and modesty... I understand no clevage bearing, belly showing, or micro-minis, but what's wrong with shoulders? I've never heard anyone anyone say they couldn't stop thinking about someone's shoulders.

[Guest tbaird22]

easier to slip off..

[FunkyTown]

I love me some shoulders. I can't get enough shoulders!

[JudoMinja]

Just think about how many explicit movie scenes start with the girl slipping her top off her shoulders and the guy getting excited... We may not say we find shoulders attractive, but it is a major starting point in things that just go the wrong way.

We could ask the same thing about knees. Nobody ever says they find knees attractive, but uncovering those makes it harder to limit just how far up skirts start going...

[pam]

We are taught even as youth to dress modestly. This prepares us as adults to wear clothing that would allow us to wear temple garments. Since temple garments cover the shoulders, sleeveless clothing would not cover the garments.

[FunkyTown]

Just think about how many explicit movie scenes start with the girl slipping her top off her shoulders and the guy getting excited... We may not say we find shoulders attractive, but it is a major starting point in things that just go the wrong way.

We could ask the same thing about knees. Nobody ever says they find knees attractive, but uncovering those makes it harder to limit just how far up skirts start going...

I'm the same way with ankles. HUBBAH HUBBAH.

[mordorbund]

Should we move this to the open forum? I mean, it's about bare sh**ld*rs.

<tee-hee> sorry

[rameumptom]

In some societies, the shoulders and neck area are the most sensuous. And for some people in all societies it is true. Why risk tempting people, when modesty is the most important concept regarding this issue?

[estradling75]

Perhaps instead of asking what is wrong with shoulders and trying to defend and justify the standards set, we should reverse it. Ask what is Right with shoulders to justify and defend breaking the standards. Can someone really make a good case for the reverse?

[Jennarator]

In some societies, the shoulders and neck area are the most sensuous. And for some people in all societies it is true. Why risk tempting people, when modesty is the most important concept regarding this issue?

I like a really nice smile, guess we should cover faces....oh, THAT's why the muslims do it! Just kidding.

Kidding aside. Sometimes we need to have faith that the prophets know what they are talking about. I am not talking about blind faith, I am talking about praying and asking the Lord for a testimony on dress standards.

[Bini]

Pam gives the BEST answer (from within LDS standards and beliefs). If you're planning on going to the temple (thus wearing garments), you need to prepare yourself and that means covering up shoulders where garments will be visible otherwise.

[pam]

Should we move this to the open forum? I mean, it's about bare sh**ld*rs.

<tee-hee> sorry

You are such a dork. But a lovable one.

[RipplecutBuddha]

You think we have it rough over the issue of shoulders? What about when the garments were first started, and the only style available was to the wrists and ankles? The fact is forgotten all too often that we are not in charge here, and it isn't all about us. We're here to learn how to let go of our selfishness. God set the standard where it is for a reason, and he even relaxed it a bit from where it began. Pretty generous if you ask me. I can't think of another instance where God gave some ground on a standard.

The line has to be somewhere, and right now the line is at the shoulders and knees.

[Backroads]

Perhaps instead of asking what is wrong with shoulders and trying to defend and justify the standards set, we should reverse it. Ask what is Right with shoulders to justify and defend breaking the standards. Can someone really make a good case for the reverse?

...cute sleeveless sundresses?

Honestly, I'm used to it. I've never been in a work environment that allowed anything sleeveless.

Can't think of a single good reason against the standard that your average place of work would approve of.

[Backroads]

We also need to recall that "sexy body parts" have changed so often over the course of history. I still giggle over the wrist bit in Memoirs of a Geisha.

[Guest]

...cute sleeveless sundresses?

Honestly, I'm used to it. I've never been in a work environment that allowed anything sleeveless.

Can't think of a single good reason against the standard that your average place of work would approve of.

When you live in the Philippines where it's 90-100 degrees 10 months out of the year with the rest of the 2 months hovering between 70 and 85 and where only indoor malls are air-conditioned (used to attract people into the mall) - even the ward buildling has no air conditioning, let alone your place of work.

I've been biting at the bit on that as a Catholic (In the Philippines, you can't take communion when your shoulders are not covered). But at least you can wear sleeveless outside of church.

So, as an LDS, it's a struggle for me to follow the dress code 24/7.

[Backroads]

When you live in the Philippines where it's 90-100 degrees 10 months out of the year with the rest of the 2 months hovering between 70 and 85 and where only indoor malls are air-conditioned (used to attract people into the mall) - even the ward buildling has no air conditioning, let alone your place of work.

I've been biting at the bit on that as a Catholic (In the Philippines, you can't take communion when your shoulders are not covered). But at least you can wear sleeveless outside of church.

So, as an LDS, it's a struggle for me to follow the dress code 24/7.

Hmm... yeah, I'll definitely give you climate.

I remember an argument with a friend who believed the BYU-Hawaii dancers should not wear traditional costumes as they were immodest...

[JudoMinja]

I understand your distress, anatess, but I really don't see how the climate argument applies when people go covered head-to-toe in the desert. They just wear light material, and that actually helps them stay cooler than if they were to go uncovered.

[Jennarator]

There are tons of people in hot climates that keep themselves covered. My sister lives in Arizona. It is regularly 115 there, and there are lots of modest Mormons there.

[Bini]

Maybe we should clarify.

Modesty in Southeast Asia is quite different than Arizona or even the middle-east. It's a cultural thing mostly. The Philippine culture is not a "cover-up" society. Some of our traditional clothing (for women) are sleeveless tube-dresses. It's just a different world there, as it is here in the US, in comparison to the middle-east. I remember going white water rafting with a group of expats and there were women and children bathing off the side of the rapids. I recall one person saying quite disgusted, "Dont they have any modesty?". Well, we do, it's just not the same culturally as yours back in England.

[Jennarator]

Maybe we should clarify.

Modesty in Southeast Asia is quite different than Arizona or even the middle-east. It's a cultural thing mostly. The Philippine culture is not a "cover-up" society. Some of our traditional clothing (for women) are sleeveless tube-dresses. It's just a different world there, as it is here in the US, in comparison to the middle-east. I remember going white water rafting with a group of expats and there were women and children bathing off the side of the rapids. I recall one person saying quite disgusted, "Dont they have any modesty?". Well, we do, it's just not the same culturally as yours back in England.

I understand that. I am not going to judge those that don't know, but the church standards are the same, everywhere.

[Bini]

I understand that. I am not going to judge those that don't know, but the church standards are the same, everywhere.

For the most part, yes. But they are lenient in some cases, cases which I've witnessed. For example, my family has dear friends that come from the Hindu culture but are baptised LDS. The women due to cultural tradition, continue to wear nose studs (piercings) and yet the Church discourages body piercings. No one has outright told them to remove them, so it must not be THAT big of a deal, in comparison to covering shoulders for garments. But my point was, there are some exceptions I believe. Also, in the UK you'll see many cultural Hindu wearing nose studs but are active members of the church. So with some things, it's not always black and white.

[Backroads]

Honestly... I think the Church standards leave a lot of wiggle room for cultural issues. The traditional Church standards seem to be based on what is modest in modern-day North America.

[Wingnut]

Maybe we should clarify.

Modesty in Southeast Asia is quite different than Arizona or even the middle-east.

Climate is also different in Southeast Asia than in Arizona or even the Middle East. Deserts are dry. The Philippines is a tropical climate -- humid. I'd rather have 100 dry degrees than 80 humid ones.

[Jennarator]

I understand culture as well. However, I have never been asked about peiricing during a temple rec interview. I have been asked if I wear the temple garment. I have also been asked if I am chase. Being chase is more than just not having sex with someone you are not marrried to.And you do need to be modest to do so. I realize this is my own opinion, however that question being in there makes the issue black and white to me.

I might live in a place that is very tolerant of gay people and I might tollerate them just fine, in fact I have lots of gay friends, however that doesn't mean I have to be gay. I can still keep my values and standards.

I realize there is some gray, but for me not in this issuse.

Swimming and other activities where you can't wear the garment are the only exception to when we should be wearing something that wouldn't cover it, weather or not we have them, yet.

You can make this as gray as you want, but the prophets tell us not to rationalize. We don't need to make excuses for obeying or not.