Engagement and Law of Chastity...

[ventura4554]

So I'm wondering about the law of chastity...yes I do go to church...but...

what i don't get is when people are engaged to be married, how do they keep the law of chastity?? I don't know how I'm going to keep this. I've been dating a sweet girl for awhile...she is really great and kind...

but things are progressing kind of fast and we're both really worried about and wondering how others dealt with this issue. I've also heard others say that they want to make sure the plumbing works before getting married and want to make sure that sex is good with someone and not sure what to think of that? Is that a valid concern to worry about?? But that's not my main concern as much as the first question...

thus far we've both been temple worthy but its kind of hard, ... I need real advise how people addressed this after getting engaged....and I don't know but is the line on this issue different when you are engaged compared to someone that isn't trying to become a permanent relationship?

[classylady]

Whether engaged or not the law of chastity remains the same. There are many engaged couples who later call off the engagement and don't get married.

As for wanting to make sure the plumbing works, that is one of Satan's tools, along with wanting to make sure that sex is good with someone before getting married. Don't tarnish your relationship with your girl friend. You said that she is sweet and really great and kind. If you love her, treat her with the respect she deserves as a daughter of God. And that goes for you too. You deserve to be respectful of yourself.

How to keep yourself from breaking the law of chastity? Have a heart-to-heart talk with your girlfriend. Commit yourselves to being chaste. It's probably not a good idea to have a long engagement. Some more suggestions: don't get horizontal with each other, go on group dates, give yourselves a curfew and stick to it. It can be done.

[Guest]

Good things come to those who wait.

You say you love her but you are willing to throw out her eternal happiness for your physical pleasure?

You say you love this girl... You love her so much you want to marry her. But you don't love her enough to work through problems? You don't love her enough to stick with her if her plumbing is not working quite the way you want? The plumbing is not the only thing that can go wrong in a marriage. If your attitude now is, I'm going to break things off if this-or-that is not working right, then you might want to think twice about that wedding... Because, I guarantee you... Something will go wrong between now and eternity. You have to know if both of you are in it for the long haul or if you're just in it if the going is easy. You have to decide now, not after the wedding.

Good luck and God bless you on this journey.

Edited May 17, 2011 by anatess

[FunkyTown]

I'm engaged.

I haven't slept with her and I won't.

I have a very specific way I do it: I don't do anything in private I wouldn't do in public. Since I'm totally willing to pinch bums or make out in public, that's not me being a prude. I want to be the 80 year old guy who still pats his wife on the bum when he passes her.

I also assume that I am solely responsible for remaining chaste and that absolutely no responsibility is on my fiance at all. I can only be responsible for my actions. When you think of it this way, you can say 'All right. I'm backing away, now.'.

And if you're the type of person to do things without thinking, then by all means, back off now.

Don't look for tips on how 'we' can keep chaste. The only person you have to worry about is you, and you have full control over not having sex. I promise you that you will never, ever, accidentally have sex. Temptation is hard, but you can manage that by not going too far in your make out sessions.

[rameumptom]

Keep yourself far from the edge of the cliff. Only one good night kiss. One armed hugs. Going out to places that are safe. Do not be alone in unsafe locations.

For those focused on plumbing, they are missing out on the rest of the house. If the only reason a couple marry is because the sex is good, then the marriage will not last. What happens if today the sex is great, but some event occurs so that you cannot have sex? Does the marriage suddenly collapse? Good sex should be the cherry on top of the cake, not the cake itself. You can live without the cherry, but the cake is the important part. So it is with a house. You need shelter to survive. Indoor plumbing is a nice addition, but people lived for millennia without it.

All the other stuff will come on the honeymoon. You do not have to neck or mud wrestle prior to marriage. Save it for after you are sealed.

Edited May 17, 2011 by rameumptom

[Jennarator]

It's hard, but worth the wait. Keepp the engagment short, but long enough to plan the wedding.

I am in my second marrige. Both of us had been married before so it was really, really hard to wait, we had to estabish boundries, since we had both been past those before (while married the first time) it was difficult to not just automaticly go past tose boundries. But you can do it.

I even know of couples that decided not to be alone until the wedding, just to resist temptaion. Talk about it with you fiance. Set up what wil work for you. It really IS worth it.

[Wingnut]

what i don't get is when people are engaged to be married, how do they keep the law of chastity?? I don't know how I'm going to keep this. I've been dating a sweet girl for awhile...she is really great and kind...

I say this with only a little bit of snark: why do you think Mormons get married so quickly and have such short engagements?

I've also heard others say that they want to make sure the plumbing works before getting married and want to make sure that sex is good with someone and not sure what to think of that? Is that a valid concern to worry about??

(1) If the plumbing doesn't work, it's going to take a few times to figure that out.

(2) Sex kind-of sucks the first time, when it's the first time for both of you. Or at least, it can. Neither of you know what you're doing -- practically speaking -- and you kind-of muddle through it, awkwardly. Again, it takes a few tries to get the hang of it.

(3) If you have nothing to compare it to, how will you know if it's "good" or not?

thus far we've both been temple worthy but its kind of hard, ... I need real advise how people addressed this after getting engaged....and I don't know but is the line on this issue different when you are engaged compared to someone that isn't trying to become a permanent relationship?

I don't really see how it's different than before you get engaged. Many LDS youth make a decision when they're 12 or 13 years old that they will remain chaste and be married in the temple. They make the decision then, so that when they get into a position of temptation, the choice is already made.

That said, I'm married. Which means I was engaged. I did it long-distance, which was good in some ways (it forced us to talk and really get to know each other instead of just "going out" all the time), but bad in other ways (we only saw each other every 2-3 weeks for 2 days at a time, so physical tensions ran high when we got together). You just have to remember that the wait is worth it, I think.

[Gwen]

I have to agree with anatess.

The excuse to make sure you are compatible is stupid. The couple that is compatible today may not be tomorrow and may become compatible again over the course of their marriage. The issue isn't "if" you will have issues in the bedroom, it's "when". It may come right away, may not hit till after you have a child (or 4th child), may hit at a certain age for you or when your cholesterol gets to high.... any number of reasons cause sexual "compatibility" to rise and fall. Are you the kind of couple that can deal with that or will you bail? If you plan on leaving then don't get married to begin with.

As for how.... I know a couple that made a list of agreed upon rules and consequences to things. For example all dates ended by 9pm (no staying late). If they stayed late then they agreed to a consequence like nothing but phone contact for the next X days. The desire to have another in person date won out on wanting to stay an extra hour. They made themselves accountable to each other. They wrote up the agreed rules/consequences and had them posted in their rooms. It was a constant daily reminder of what they wanted to accomplish. I thought it was a creative solution and good practice for a lot of marriage communication skills (problem resolution, equal accountability, communication of touchy subjects/problems, negotiation of solutions, etc)

[seeking_peace]

I remember it being really hard to keep the LoC when I was engaged (many, many years ago). For years, you keep yourself pure and save yourself for “The One” and suddenly, you are with The One, but it’s still a no no. It was explained to me that it’s like driving, you can’t legally do it without the drivers’ license.

As for how to keep pure, you’ve already been given some good advice. In addition to what’s been suggested, we kept a picture of the temple on the wall to remind us of our goal and I even put a count down on it “Only 15 more days!...”

Mostly, it was a matter of will and remembering that we wanted to be married in the temple and didn’t want to jeopardize that.

I have a friend that decided she and her fiancé should discontinue all activities that stirred up those feelings---even kissing. They gave each other brotherly hugs and on the cheek kisses. I thought that was a little extreme, but it is what worked for them.

As for the other issue of “test driving:” I understand the concern. A good sex life is an important part of marriage, but it is just a part. It’s also something that can be improved by discussion and practice. The truth is, that if you are both virgins, the first time may not be all that spectacular (especially for her). Nor the second, or the third… It would be a shame to throw away a wonderful relationship because you think that you are not sexually compatible if, after experimentation and communication, you can develop that into an awesome compatibility.

[Gwen]

I just thought all the comments might leave you concerned. So before you start to panic about how hard things might be, if you worry about that kind of thing, there is a really good book that addresses some of the issues folks are hinting at ("And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage Through Sexual Fulfillment" by Laura M. Brotherson). If you are worried you could read it before or wait and if you experience issues run out and buy it. It's always nice to know where a good resource is just in case.

Remember to take things in stride, don't take yourself to seriously, and be willing to laugh together.

[ryanh]

We often achieve what we focus on. When pushing for a goal, we ought to keep focused on the goal. Any distractions may prevent us from achieving the goal. I did a FHE lesson recently to try to illustrate this concept. I put a $100 on one side of the room, and then a chocolate bar (a little piece of heaven ) on the other side of the room. Each of the kids tried to obtain the candy bar (which I moved while they weren't looking) while maintaining eye contact on the $100. Each fumbled to grab the prize they were challenged to obtain. (and one made a mad dash for the $100 instead of the candy bar! lol)

If you and/or your fiance are focused on sex, sex, sex, (as evidenced by the consideration of 'test drive') then that's most likely what you'll achieve. I've been through two engagements, and I can say that when the sex is focused on, it is much harder than when a marriage the Lord's way is focused on. At best, you'll fumble your way trying to reach the Temple, if at all.

make sure that sex is good with someone and not sure what to think of that? Is that a valid concern to worry about??

Absolutely not a valid concern. (Marriage to my first wife was fraught with sexual problems. I doubt that we would have figured that out anyway had we broken the law of chastity. So, I think I have a valid basis on which to forum an opinion that it is absolutely not a valid consideration.) I'm a little saddened you don't see that clearly for the false lure it is.

is the line on this issue different when you are engaged compared to someone that isn't trying to become a permanent relationship?

Of course it is different! Have you not reasoned any of this out in your own mind already? The adversary knows you are close to the edge, and will do whatever he can to give you a little push (justifications, etc which you are already falling prey to) to make you fall.

Focus your attention on the right things, reach for what is right, and don’t be so foolish as to justify giving up the worthy goal for that which won’t last.

[Backroads]

It's hard. You're committed to this person, you plan on marrying her, you want to show your affection. I will go out on a controversial limb and say that I was more affectionate with my fiance/now husband when we were engaged than when we were dating. I don't feel we ever crossed a line--because that was important. We made lines.

I heard a great thing to determine if you're committed: You're married. Sure, a marriage might go sour, might end, but it's a very good sign of committment. Until you're married, anything can happen.

In our situation, it was tricky. My husband had been married before, and a bad sex life was one of the reasons the marriage fell apart. He was terrified I wouldn't like sex, just like his first wife. So it seemed to be extra important to make clear lines.

I ALWAYS hear people saying how important it is to have sex before marriage to make sure you're sexually compatible. I honestly think there's a lot of error in there. To search for sexual compatibility is naive and completely ignores the process of working on sex together and paying attention to your partner's needs and wants. It's a completely selfish statement. Sure, there are people here and there, even couples, who wind up having sexual issues, but it's no reason to say "we should have checked before". A lady in my ward is a sex and marriage therapist and says that most cases of sexual problems can be resolved either through physical or emotional/mental therapy.

[beefche]

I'm engaged now. When my fiance and I are together (he lives out of town), we have very strict rules that we follow. We both agree that marrying in the temple is of utmost importance for us. He has repeatedly told me that he respects me too much to treat me so shabbily for a few moments of pleasure.

Yes, it is hard. But, we both are committed and we set strict rules. I had a friend that while she was engaged had absolutely no passionate kissing as a rule. They found, that for themselves, passionate kissing was leading them in the wrong direction. So, they stopped until marriage.

One thing to remember, in a marriage, you WILL be sacrificing for her. She WILL be sacrificing for you. Now is the time to begin that process. Sacrificing momentary pleasure for something far beyond that is worth it. She knows how you feel about her and vice versa. If you must reduce the amount of time or type of activities you two do, then do it. So what if you have to restrict your time with her for 3-4 months? In the long run, you will be together and able to not restrict that.

For me, it is my firm belief and committment that I want to be sealed in the temple that helps me. I can tell you that I made that decision long before I met my fiance. And during those times of great temptation, when my focus is NOT on anything spiritual, the Holy Ghost has whispered to me my resolve.

[lost123]

The "plumbing" comment made me think that you may want to think about the maturity of your relationship. Though the physical aspect of marriage is important, I can guarantee you that if it is a "deal breaker" then I think you have some issues to work out. If you think that you must know that experience before you marry in order to marry then I think you need to look honestly at whether you both are ready for the responsibilities of marriage. Faith, trust, respect should be the guiding principles in a marriage. Indulging in physical behaviour reserved for marriage is a selfish act. Selfishness is the fastest thing to destroy any marriage.

One thing is certain: sexual experience before marriage destroys a true relationship faster than anything I know. It is not worth it AT ALL. I know. It creates an environment of disappointment, mistrust, anger and sadness. It may not be immediately evident (though often is) but WILL, in time, garner resentment. Again...I know. It is not worth it. Necking is not worth it (which requires repentance btw). Passionate kissing is not worth it (that is where all the trouble begins). Fondling/Petting each other is not worth it (also requires talking to your bishop).

Having a marriage set out on the right foot is worth abstinence. My suggestion...

1) Talk to the Bishop about this difficulty. Ask for him to follow up with you EVERY week (if that is what it requires - and it might). There may be boundaries you have crossed that you didn't know were a violation (talk to your Bishop about what is appropriate and not appropriate and confess quickly if you have over-stepped that).

2) Start with your thought pattern. As thoughts come in your head that lead to temptation...sing a hymn. Replace cuddling activities with service to others, keeping busy, etc. so the temptation to go further is not so strong.

3) Sit down with your fiance and make very clear rules. Remember that the first commandment is to "Love God with all your heart" and then the next is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." You've made covenants. The Lord's greatest blessings come from keeping the commandments. If you hold a temple recommend and are near a temple...go once a week...if you can.

4) Be stricter on yourselves now than when you were dating. It is necessary as temptations get stronger.

5) If you have to...have a trusted friend you report to daily to help keep you on track.

6) AND... Attend Temple Prep or Marriage Prep classes if they are available.

Indulging in sexual experience (necking, petting, fornciation, etc.) before marriage does not lend itself to strong relationships or marriage - only regret. My advice! Run from it as quickly as you can. If you have indulged...see your Bishop right away (do not delay). If you haven't indulged...see your Bishop anyway. He can help keep you on track.

You can do it. :)

BTW...one sure method (pretty sure anyway) is if you have the rule that you will never be alone together then you most likely won't cross lines. Sounds stringent - but worth it.

[Guest]

I just saw that youtube video linked in the abortion thread...

Go on the pill to abstain from sex... That is, take a pill and put it between your knees. Love it!

[slamjet]

I'm amazed that this is even a question. So I have three of my own:

1) Do you have the utmost of respect for her?

2) Do you have the utmost respect for yourself?

3) Do you have the utmost respect for the institute of marriage?

If you can answer "yes" to all three, then you should have strength and wisdom enough to discuss this issue with each other in a mature manner and lay down boundaries that will not be crossed. If you answer "no" to any of these questions, then you need to really think about what you're doing.

[dahlia]

After reading these posts, I'm curious - do LDS parents talk to their children about sex or do they let them wait until they get married (or are in the backseat of a car) to figure things out? I realize there is sex ed in schools these days, but do LDS parents make their kids opt out? Personally, I would and I'm pretty sure I'm more up front about this stuff than most born Mormons, but then my late husband and I weren't shy and we wanted our son to know the truth and not hear garbage from people on the street. If you don't talk to your kids you run the risk of all kinds of experimentation in the name of satisfying curiosity.

Also, I understand that Mormon divorce rates are similar to the rest of the population, except for those married in the temple, in which case the rate is very low. Considering that RMs can't wait to get married (and I'm going to be blunt here, I think it's mostly to have a 'legal' outlet for the sex that their hormones want at that age), and are so young, could the youth and inexperience of the parties be a big part of a later divorce? It's not youth in and of itself (I was pretty young, compared to today's girls), but that people grow up in different ways and not always on the same path. A guy at 21 is very different from a guy at 35, even a nice guy. Sometimes people just grow apart.

Before someone calls my bishop, I'm not advocating going against the Law of Chastity. I'm just thinking of the President's message to the priesthood this past Conference and the admonition to young men to get married early and I wonder if it's the best thing. There is waiting too long; I understand that. But waiting until 27 or so makes sense to me.

Send your cards and letters to: Dahlia, Outer Darkness.

[Guest]

After reading these posts, I'm curious - do LDS parents talk to their children about sex or do they let them wait until they get married (or are in the backseat of a car) to figure things out? I realize there is sex ed in schools these days, but do LDS parents make their kids opt out? Personally, I would and I'm pretty sure I'm more up front about this stuff than most born Mormons, but then my late husband and I weren't shy and we wanted our son to know the truth and not hear garbage from people on the street. If you don't talk to your kids you run the risk of all kinds of experimentation in the name of satisfying curiosity.

Also, I understand that Mormon divorce rates are similar to the rest of the population, except for those married in the temple, in which case the rate is very low. Considering that RMs can't wait to get married (and I'm going to be blunt here, I think it's mostly to have a 'legal' outlet for the sex that their hormones want at that age), and are so young, could the youth and inexperience of the parties be a big part of a later divorce? It's not youth in and of itself (I was pretty young, compared to today's girls), but that people grow up in different ways and not always on the same path. A guy at 21 is very different from a guy at 35, even a nice guy. Sometimes people just grow apart.

Before someone calls my bishop, I'm not advocating going against the Law of Chastity. I'm just thinking of the President's message to the priesthood this past Conference and the admonition to young men to get married early and I wonder if it's the best thing. There is waiting too long; I understand that. But waiting until 27 or so makes sense to me.

Send your cards and letters to: Dahlia, Outer Darkness.

LOL, Dahlia! :D:D

On the off-chance that you haven't finished packing for Outer Darkness yet...

We are faily open about sex talk at our house - within reason. That is - we make it age appropriate. So that, when the kids were still pre kindergarten age, it's been, mommy and daddy really love each other and so we got married, after that, our love became so strong that we wanted to share it with you, so you appeared in mom's tummy and...

So then, they got older - so 1st and 2nd grade it's been, yeah, there's kissing involved...

So then, one kid is now 9 years old and his dad takes him to scouts while I stay home with the younger kid and on one of these drives, my husband explained to him a bit more on that subject (no idea what they talked about, it's supposed to be a "man thing").

I guess that's one good thing about not having daughters. I don't have to give "the talk"...

We haven't decided yet if we need to opt out of the school one.

[Guest]

P.S. About the missionaries...

Or even just the young'uns at YSA.

Yeah, too much pressure to get married. But that's because Americans are too obsessed with sex.

I'm hoping my kids won't be that obsessed with it and would know how to choose their spouses wisely.

My husband was 21 when we got married. He never felt that pressure to get married though. He went inactive when he graduated from YM. He just found me and that was it for him. No need to wait anymore.

[kayne]

After reading these posts, I'm curious - do LDS parents talk to their children about sex or do they let them wait until they get married (or are in the backseat of a car) to figure things out? I realize there is sex ed in schools these days, but do LDS parents make their kids opt out? Personally, I would and I'm pretty sure I'm more up front about this stuff than most born Mormons, but then my late husband and I weren't shy and we wanted our son to know the truth and not hear garbage from people on the street. If you don't talk to your kids you run the risk of all kinds of experimentation in the name of satisfying curiosity.

Also, I understand that Mormon divorce rates are similar to the rest of the population, except for those married in the temple, in which case the rate is very low. Considering that RMs can't wait to get married (and I'm going to be blunt here, I think it's mostly to have a 'legal' outlet for the sex that their hormones want at that age), and are so young, could the youth and inexperience of the parties be a big part of a later divorce? It's not youth in and of itself (I was pretty young, compared to today's girls), but that people grow up in different ways and not always on the same path. A guy at 21 is very different from a guy at 35, even a nice guy. Sometimes people just grow apart.

Before someone calls my bishop, I'm not advocating going against the Law of Chastity. I'm just thinking of the President's message to the priesthood this past Conference and the admonition to young men to get married early and I wonder if it's the best thing. There is waiting too long; I understand that. But waiting until 27 or so makes sense to me.

Send your cards and letters to: Dahlia, Outer Darkness.

i guess ill see you in outer darkness too guess i agree with you lol.

i dont think the church really teaches about sex and drugs enough. all that is really said is stay away till your married and drugs are bad. this hardly answers anything or teaches you about it. and the awkwardness(not sure not married or dating) of two virgins doing it on the honeymoon really should be addressed somewhere cause it is too popular to say i want to test the car first. the church and mormon families really need to teach about sex and drugs more. my own personal fight against porn i intend full well even though im not even dating right now to whatever kids i might have have a nice long detail talk about sex and drugs and i intend to do it very early. youd be amazed what memories hit you of when you 5-8 years old when your 20 or older.

to TC while a virgin in the literal sense but if we count the years of porn viewing ive done i hardly consider it true. that said all thats being opened here a floodgate to porn and hookers. quite frankly in my porn recovery ive seen 60 year old men broken down in dispair and tears over the blasted sexual addiction. i'd advise avoiding that door like a plague. im not kidding here 60 year old men weeping over a sex addiction theyve had for like 45 years all over a playboy magazine that has ruined 2 or 3 marriages. really you do it now your screwed. youve opened the door to hell. good luck shutting it.

and ya so many of those addicted broken addicts can point to an early memory of when they were 5 or 6 years old. its alarming really.

honestly TC....avoid pre martial sex. i beg you avoid it.

and i agree this always push to marriage crap gets on my nerves. stop rushing it. and the whole RM getting married ring by spring philosphy is tired and annoying. but i may be wrong. just seems like its not for the best. YSA are sheep meant solely to be mated off. we are humans too ya know.

[Dravin]

After reading these posts, I'm curious - do LDS parents talk to their children about sex or do they let them wait until they get married (or are in the backseat of a car) to figure things out?

It varies, I imagine we're on par with many other conservative Christian denominations.

and the awkwardness(not sure not married or dating) of two virgins doing it on the honeymoon really should be addressed somewhere cause it is too popular to say i want to test the car first.

The place it should be addressed is at home/by parents, not at Church. While there probably could be more positive affirmations of sex (it's fairly easy for young adults to come away from church lessons about the Law of Chastity with the impression that 'Sex is dirty, sinful and bad, save it for the one you love.') the nuts and bolts stuff that could possibly alleviate some of the awkwardness of a honeymoon isn't the domain of Church. The Church tells parents to teach their children about sex at age appropriate levels and I suspect quite a few parents are dropping the ball. And ultimately, the first time a pair of virgins have sex is going to be awkward, it's just a question of how much.

[Wingnut]

After reading these posts, I'm curious - do LDS parents talk to their children about sex or do they let them wait until they get married (or are in the backseat of a car) to figure things out? I realize there is sex ed in schools these days, but do LDS parents make their kids opt out? Personally, I would and I'm pretty sure I'm more up front about this stuff than most born Mormons, but then my late husband and I weren't shy and we wanted our son to know the truth and not hear garbage from people on the street. If you don't talk to your kids you run the risk of all kinds of experimentation in the name of satisfying curiosity.

I don't think LDS families -- in general -- talk about sex enough. Obviously, my experience is limited to my family. My mom had the sex talk with me in fifth grade. She did it to pre-empt the school presentation's education, but still let me attend that. She told me everything all at once -- a woman's cycle, sex, babies, everything. (1) It was too overwhelming for me. (2) It was gross to me. The next time she talked to me about sex was when I was 25 and she was helping me out of my wedding dress after my sealing, so I could get ready to go to dinner at the restaurant, and she asked, "So, are you nervous about tonight?" My response was a perfunctory "no," which immediately ended the conversation.

I do know some LDS parents who keep their kids out of the school lessons. Usually the argument I hear is that the kids are too young for it. I think that does the kids a disservice, personally. Kids are exposed to sex, etc. much younger these days, and girls start their hormonal development younger and younger. Whether parents want to or not, I think they need to adapt to that, and make sure that they -- not media or school or friends (or friends' dads' magazines) are the first place their kids ask questions or learn about these things. Though my daughter is only 3 right now, and I haven't discussed this with my husband, I think it's important to let her attend the school's education program because I'm not equipped to handle the scientific questions or aspects of basic sex ed. I think it should come from me first, but I don't see a problem with appropriate supplementation.

Also, I understand that Mormon divorce rates are similar to the rest of the population, except for those married in the temple, in which case the rate is very low. Considering that RMs can't wait to get married (and I'm going to be blunt here, I think it's mostly to have a 'legal' outlet for the sex that their hormones want at that age), and are so young, could the youth and inexperience of the parties be a big part of a later divorce? It's not youth in and of itself (I was pretty young, compared to today's girls), but that people grow up in different ways and not always on the same path. A guy at 21 is very different from a guy at 35, even a nice guy. Sometimes people just grow apart.

I couldn't agree more. I got married at 25, which was perfect for me. But I have seen too many cases of getting married young because either they couldn't control themselves, or because they're "s'posed to." Neither is a good reason.

Send your cards and letters to: Dahlia, Outer Darkness.

On the off-chance that you haven't finished packing for Outer Darkness yet...

Anatess, you made a funny!

(it's fairly easy for young adults to come away from church lessons about the Law of Chastity with the impression that 'Sex is dirty, sinful and bad, save it for the one you love.')

I definitely concur -- this is too much the focus in the Church and in LDS homes and families. Sex = bad, bad, bad, no, no, no.

[Vort]

(it's fairly easy for young adults to come away from church lessons about the Law of Chastity with the impression that 'Sex is dirty, sinful and bad, save it for the one you love.')

I definitely concur -- this is too much the focus in the Church and in LDS homes and families. Sex = bad, bad, bad, no, no, no.

I rarely got that impression, either in Church or at home. The impression I got was, "Sex is great, but should only be expressed in marriage." And I daresay I'm older than either of you.

[Backroads]

I rarely got that impression, either in Church or at home. The impression I got was, "Sex is great, but should only be expressed in marriage." And I daresay I'm older than either of you.

I imagine this to be a regional cultural issue more than anything, or some people just absorb information differently.

[Guest]

Anatess, you made a funny!

YEAY! I can get lucky sometimes!

I definitely concur -- this is too much the focus in the Church and in LDS homes and families. Sex = bad, bad, bad, no, no, no.

I agree with this too. And, what's more of concern, parents oftentimes say the same things. Or at least, I know my mother-in-law is doing this. She's raising her grand-daughter and she's learning you can't talk about sex because it's dirty talk. For example, I took her out to lunch one time and we were talking about the gunea pigs and I asked her, "What sex are they?"... Okay, so you know my problem with "proper wording". Anyway, she looked at me in shock and said, "you can't say that word. It's a bad word!"... I'm like, uh-oh, not a good sign...