Why do so many couples divorce?

[sweetiepie]

I just found out that my husband's brother's wife left him the other day. They have been married for 12 years and she had two children when they met and they had one together. They have been sealed in the temple, and she is leaving and there has been no infidelity or broken covenants. He wants to work things out, she is just leaving. She says it is completely over and he was convenient at the time because she was scared and single with two kids and he rescued her.

My sister and her husband are separated.

I am not going to try to explain what is wrong with both, but it just brought to light how common it is becoming for families to fall apart.

It seems that my age group (30 somethings) really struggles to keep marriages in-tact. I am so grateful that after 14 years and 5 children that my husband and I are so in love and have made it through some very hard times together. It hasn't been all peaches and cream, but I cannot imagine ever leaving him and being able to build what we have built together. I have had his children, and have the scars to prove it. Only he sees me in our most intimate moments, and I know without a doubt that Heavenly Father made him for me and me for him. I would never, ever, want to share that with anyone else.

Do you think these people fall in love, get married, have children, start having money problems, finish having children and when they get a chance to breathe they realize that they don't love the other person anymore? When it does not involve adultery or anything covenant breaking, what do you think happens?

My brother in law even said to his wife that she is breaking the hearts of her children (13, 12, and 10), and she still doesn't want to work things out.

I used to think in early marriage that if a husband cheats on a wife, it should be over immediately! Now, after everything we have built together, I can see how important it is to keep your marriage together even through something as horrible as adultery.

Do you think lds members are taking sealings less seriously than we should?

Just wondering, and sad for these families. Thanks for the discussion!

[g8trjasonb]

Divorce is definitely everywhere and LDS aren't immune. From my vantage point, the LDS divorce rate is significantly lower than the national average, but I read recently that the divorce rate in Utah is right there with every other state in the union. Granted, not all Utahns are LDS, but with about 2/3 of the state's population, I think it's still telling.

I think every situation is different, but there is no doubt that we live in a society that wants it all right now now and has been deluded by the romance of movies and other media. Throw in the fact that we are a consumer society that is extremely materialistic and you have the makings of a high divorce rate when the going gets tough. Those LDS couples that aren't keeping their covenants are just as susceptible as anyone.

For me, I'm actually divorced, although I was only married for a year after my non-LDS ex-wife wanted out despite my best attempts. Plus, I was only 20 with no kids, so it's a bit different than most divorces. But that experience has definitely made me date women more carefully because I don't want to be a twice divorcee.

[Guest Chouchou]

well i can't speak about this situation specifically of course, but in general, it's because people get married for the wrong reasons. mostly marrying over sexual passion which fades over time as opposed to the real things you need to look at before getting married like your beliefs about different issues/ philosophies of life, and other long-term compatibility issues. or its just people thinking too much in terms of "I" and "Me" and not so much about "Us" and "We". in marriage you have to put the other person first, and people don't seem very good at doing that these days, do they? ^^;;;

this situation sounds like your sister in law married because she was scared and marriage offered her a bit of protection and security. and now that she's at a different stage in her life and she's getting those things from other sources, the marriage seems less important to her. and i don't want that to sound bad towards her because i don't mean it that way. it's a very normal thing, really. not a good thing necessarily. but one that, unfortunately, does happen often in the complex world of relationships.

if church members are starting to divorce more or think less of their sealing i think it would be because there is a push to get married, but not enough of a push to get married thoughtfully. i think too that there can be a lot of social pressure to have kids too soon. some couples want to have kids right away, others do need to wait for whatever reason. and i don't think this pressure comes from the leadership of the church so much as it comes from some of the members. people should figure out what is right for them instead of what other people determine is what they need. so maybe people just need to get better at telling others to mind their own business and get their noses out of other people's marriages?

Edited June 3, 2011 by Chouchou

[Vort]

this situation sounds like your sister in law married because she was scared and marriage offered her a bit of protection and security. and now that she's at a different stage in her life and she's getting those things from other sources, the marriage seems less important to her. and i don't want that to sound bad towards her because i don't mean it that way

Seriously? A woman marries for security, then dumps her spouse when she's feeling a bit more stable about things -- and you don't want to sound like you're saying it's bad?

Okay, I'll say it. It's a bad thing. A very, very, very bad thing. It's selfish, immature, short-sighted, hurtful, and small. It's a horrible, evil thing, reviled by any decent person of conscience. Yuck. Anyone who would marry for convenience or security and then dump his or her spouse some time later because the crisis is past and s/he wants to move on to greener pastures is in dire need of repentence.

[Guest Chouchou]

Seriously? A woman marries for security, then dumps her spouse when she's feeling a bit more stable about things -- and you don't want to sound like you're saying it's bad?

are you stalking me or what?

and how about reading my last sentence? "it's a very normal thing, really. not a good thing necessarily. but one that, unfortunately, does happen often in the complex world of relationships.

i just don't wanna sound like i'm being mean towards her or attacking her personally because i do not know her or or situation personally.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Chouchou

[estradling75]

are you stalking me or what?

Currently the forum shows 9 active members. Pretty much if you want to post you are going to be interacting with a very small pool of users right now

[Vort]

are you stalking me or what?

Yes, that's it. I am stalking you, Chouchou. You're participating on a discussion list, so when someone responds to what you write, that's a sure sign you're being stalked.

and how about reading my last sentence? "it's a very normal thing, really. not a good thing necessarily. but one that, unfortunately, does happen often in the complex world of relationships.

Oh, yes. I did read that. Let me give an equivalent:

"So you raped her -- and I don't mean that to sound like a bad thing, it's really very normal, not a good thing necessarily, but one that, unfortunately, does happen often in the complex world of relationships."

This woman is virtually raping her marriage. Your efforts to be neutral and non-judgmental toward her evil, violent action are inappropriate.

i just don't wanna sound like i'm being mean towards her or attacking her personally because i do not know her or or situation personally.

Exactly. You don't know the rapist personally or exactly what caused him to rape his girlfriend, so it's really not appropriate to condemn that action. Better to be non-judgmental toward such things.

[Guest Chouchou]

Yes, that's it. I am stalking you, Chouchou. You're participating on a discussion list, so when someone responds to what you write, that's a sure sign you're being stalked.

i was being sarcastic.

Oh, yes. I did read that. Let me give an equivalent:

"So you raped her -- and I don't mean that to sound like a bad thing, it's really very normal, not a good thing necessarily, but one that, unfortunately, does happen often in the complex world of relationships."

This woman is virtually raping her marriage. Your efforts to be neutral and non-judgmental toward her evil, violent action are inappropriate.

Exactly. You don't know the rapist personally or exactly what caused him to rape his girlfriend, so it's really not appropriate to condemn that action. Better to be non-judgmental toward such things.

well what if she is close with her sister in law? her mixed emotions over that are not going to be helped by someone attacking her sister in law. if it were me, i still would not want them to attack a member of my family. she wants to discuss divorce not "hey, let's all come talk bad about my sister in law behind her back while she's probably going through a really tough time".

personally i think you comparing her sister in law to a rapist is pretty inappropriate. and talk about rude. in reality, there might be factors at work here that we aren't aware of.

[beefche]

Please, someone enlighten me. Why is it so wrong that men and women are different? Why is it so wrong to allow that God made men with sexual desires different than women's? Why is it that we cannot accept that men need sex on a level that is different than women's?

[beefche]

personally i think you comparing her sister in law to a rapist is pretty inappropriate. and talk about rude. in reality, there might be factors at work here that we aren't aware of.

There probably are factors we are unaware of. Most definitely. However, for a discussion forum, we are only able to respond to what we are given.

[ruthiechan]

Vort hit the nail on the head.

SELFISHNESS

It's easier to give up then work hard at maintaining a good marriage.

[estradling75]

Please, someone enlighten me. Why is it so wrong that men and women are different? Why is it so wrong to allow that God made men with sexual desires different than women's? Why is it that we cannot accept that men need sex on a level that is different than women's?

It shouldn't be... But I find that people in general set themselves up as a standard of what is normal (I know I do) When this happens anyone who is more or less is off on some freakish abnormality

[Guest Chouchou]

There probably are factors we are unaware of. Most definitely. However, for a discussion forum, we are only able to respond to what we are given.

but i still don't think we have to be rude about it. =/

[classylady]

Back to the op, why are so many marriages ending in divorce? I think most of the reasons have already been mentioned--selfishness, "me" mentality, etc. I wonder if the example of their parents might be another reason. If their parents divorced--then when the going gets tough, the example has been set, and maybe they find it easier to get divorced too. Of course, I could be wrong on this. I know kids that came from divorced families, and they have sworn that they will not do to their children what their parents did to them.

[slamjet]

Quote from a Q&A session with Gordon B. Hinckley at the National Press Club:

Q. What is your church's teaching on divorce?

A. Well, we don't like it. We have divorce. We permit divorce. I very much regret that divorce is so rampant in the land. It is indicative of the breaking up of the family. I think it is a very sorrowful thing to witness that we have so much divorce which comes of a disrespect on the part of men and women and the lack of appreciation and unwillingness to give and take a little here and there. If every man would make his prime concern the comfort and well-being of his wife and every wife make her chief concern the comfort and well-being of her husband, we would have very little divorce in the land. (bold added)

[Vort]

i was being sarcastic.

Seriously?

personally i think you comparing her sister in law to a rapist is pretty inappropriate. and talk about rude.

Maybe you're right. A marriage is a living entity, and a marriage contracted in this life is an embryo for a marriage lasting for eternity. What she is doing by leaving the marriage is more akin to the murder of a marriage, something that might have been everlasting but instead will completely cease to exist. Instead of rape, perhaps elective abortion is a more accurate comparison for her crime.

[MorningStar]

Yep, I think selfishness is usually the reason. It might be one spouse or both.

[Fascism]

My worry is that if I get married and my wife is infertile, I would instantly divorce her. That is the bottom line, I need to create children, and if my wife is unable to do so, it is over.

[ruthiechan]

My worry is that if I get married and my wife is infertile, I would instantly divorce her. That is the bottom line, I need to create children, and if my wife is unable to do so, it is over.

Adoption is a perfectly fine alternative. You can go through LDS Services when adopting.

If you do marry, I hope you take to the Lord about your choice of spouse before you put a ring on her finger.

[nejifer]

Beef - where/why/how did mens' sexual needs play into this discussion?

Sweetiepie - to answer your original question. I was sealed in the temple in 2000 and we divorced in 2005. I felt I was trying to take it seriously, but he was cheating on me. So be it.

When I remarried last year, it was to a non member and we got married fast because I was "fooling around" with him and felt super guilty about it. So I think a lot of LDS members are encouraged to get married when they are being unchaste. This leads to divorces later when the couple realizes they rushed into things. (The fooling around was about 50% of the reason why I rushed the marriage, to get away from the guilt.)

I know that's not a blanket answer for everyone, but it sheds light on way too many situations.

[Fascism]

Adoption is a perfectly fine alternative. You can go through LDS Services when adopting.

If you do marry, I hope you take to the Lord about your choice of spouse before you put a ring on her finger.

I am planning on having my own children as well as adopting one or two children to add to the family. I take the commandment "Go forth and multiply." very seriously.

My brother and his ex wife spent 5 years trying to get pregnant, but she had a problem with her ovaries that made it very difficult to conceive, which inevitably lead to their divorce.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Fascism

[LDSJewess]

There are many many factors that come into play and selfishness is certainly a problem in this "me" generation.

But there are many other factors as well.

Statistics have reported that 51 percent of baby boomers were divorced. Sad but possibly true and I am one of those numbers.

When I was in high school I heard my father say to my uncle, "having two daughters and no sons is saving me money because I don't have to worry about sending them to college." Back in the 60's many girls graduated from high school and were encouraged to marry to keep their chastity, and were expected to bear and raise children. Men were expected to work and support them. The problem was that these young brides and grooms were children themselves that had no idea of what the responsibility entailed of being an adult no less an adult responsible of raising children and supporting a family. Many of these young couples had three or four children without having acquired first the education, resources to accomplish the tasks before them and so it is no surprise that 51 percent of the marriages failed.

We baby boomers were also growing up in a world of fantasy stories like Cinderella and Prince Charming where girls were swept away to live happily ever after. Songs I heard as a teenager were "white on white - lace on satin" and "Going to the Chapel of Love." We were all encouraged by wearing that white dress and veil, having bridesmaids all dressed in pretty pastels, lots of flowers, showers, gifts and the good wishes of friends. Girls were caught up in becoming a bride not a wife and mother. Men were caught up in the romance of it all too. And back in those days men were expected to marry a girl BEFORE sexual relations and girls offering those kind of favors before the engagement ring were in minority.

My first husband caved under the stress of having to support a family and became an alcoholic which led to wife beating. Personally I prayed that he would be unfaithful so he wouldn't come home because I feared the abuse.

Divorce can be caused for many reasons from just being selfish and not wanting to work on a marriage to far more serious matters such as alcoholism, abuse, drug addiction, incest, infidelity or a host of other reasons. And although I do not believe divorce can be avoided altogehter because we cannot see what the future will bring; we can be far more selective on choosing a partner that we get to know. Pre marital counseling to discuss expectations regarding finances, sex, children and any and all important issues is paramont.

I believe any woman would be absolutely devastated if their husband left them because they could not bear children. I hope Fascism is just young and has not developed the maturity yet, in which case it is unadvisable for him to marry until he gets the true meaning of marriage and it is not just all about baby making.

I also believe especially in todays world that it is more important than ever for young people to obtain further education (both men and women), and both should have the opportunity to choose a fulfilling career. Educated mature adults made better spouses and better parents, and have the ability to make better choices on the person they decide to marry. It will also be beneficial when the children can learn by example from mature adults that are responsible enough to take on all of the challenges that marriage and children brings.

[slamjet]

My worry is that if I get married and my wife is infertile, I would instantly divorce her. That is the bottom line, I need to create children, and if my wife is unable to do so, it is over.

Yup, not marrying for love, but for procreation reasons only. Wow, what an underwhelming reason to marry. What ever happened to unconditional love? How about "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" (Ephesians 5: 25)? Christ gave his life for the church full of imperfect people. You're saying you're unwilling to follow that example? I dare say that there will be couples in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom who have not been able to have mortal children.

But, to each their own.

[Vort]

My worry is that if I get married and my wife is infertile, I would instantly divorce her. That is the bottom line, I need to create children, and if my wife is unable to do so, it is over.

I urge you to rethink this, for your own happiness as well as that of your future wife. If you are firmly set on this mindset, then by all means let any future fiancée know that you are marrying her primarily for her uterus and ovaries. No woman should enter a marriage under the delusion that she is loved, only to find that she is nothing more than a baby oven.

[Fascism]

Yup, not marrying for love, but for procreation reasons only. Wow, what an underwhelming reason to marry. What ever happened to unconditional love? How about "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" (Ephesians 5: 25)? Christ gave his life for the church full of imperfect people. You're saying you're unwilling to follow that example? I dare say that there will be couples in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom who have not been able to have mortal children.

But, to each their own.

What did you think the point of marriage is for?

Love is an important bond needed for marriage, but without procreation the love is in vein.

Heavenly Father commands us to "Go forth and multiply."