Casey Anthony Found Not Guilty!

[estradling75]

I agree with much of what you say, Estradling. (I work with criminal defendants daily, and I think at least one or two of them have been innocent. )

I guess my beef is, it's a big leap from "not guilty" to "factually innocent". It's one thing to say "she wasn't convicted". It's entirely another to say "well, yeah, she partied like it was 1999 for thirty days after the kid disappeared; and yeah, someone at her house googled the use of lethal drugs; and yeah, there was DNA and whatever else; and yeah, she lied and lied and lied and lied and finally tried to implicate her own father--but how DARE anyone even THINK that she might have actually done it!!!!"

There seem to be some people out there (not you, of course) who honestly believe that a jury has some supernatural power to travel back into the past and re-define reality. The rest of us are supposed to suspend critical thinking and historical interpretation, because one of twelve people decided that there wasn't quite enough evidence to convict.

"Acquitted" has no more relation to "innocent" than "charged" has to "culpable".

Indeed... We don't know... If 12 people (or whatever the jury size was) who get to hear both sides, and judge the evidence. If they can't come to a agreement on a guilty verdict, then maybe we should be less willing to pronounce their guilt and assume our more limited judgment is superior

[LDSJewess]

I agree with much of what you say, Estradling. (Just last month I was involved in a "rape" trial that, IMHO, should have gotten the county attorney disbarred.)

I guess my beef is, it's a big leap from "not guilty" to "factually innocent". It's one thing to say "she wasn't convicted". It's entirely another to say "well, yeah, she partied like it was 1999 for thirty days after the kid disappeared; and yeah, someone at her house googled the use of lethal drugs; and yeah, there was DNA and whatever else; and yeah, she lied and lied and lied and lied and finally tried to implicate her own father--but how DARE anyone even THINK that she might have actually done it!!!!"

There seem to be some people out there (not you, of course) who honestly believe that a jury has some supernatural power to travel back into the past and re-define reality. The rest of us are supposed to suspend critical thinking and historical interpretation, because one of twelve people decided that there wasn't quite enough evidence to convict.

"Acquitted" has no more relation to "innocent" than "charged" has to "culpable". Your position--that you don't trust who you don't know intimately--is eminently sensible; I just wish those who enshrine the pronouncements of juries as gospel truth (at least, when the pronouncement is "not guilty") would take that to heart a little more.

Just-A-Guy,

I am wondering if you know the answer to this since you are in the legal profession.

Now that Casey Anthony has been aquitted; is it correct to assume that the Department of Family Services could not intervene in any way, in the event she has another child. I am wondering if there is any kind of statute in place that in the event that she had another child, that Famiy Servies could investigate to insure the safety of a future child?

I realize that aquittal does not mean necessarily innocent, and so if there was not enough evidence to convict, is she as innocent as any other parent in the eyes of the law and no jurisdiction to protect future children?

[estradling75]

Just-A-Guy,

I am wondering if you know the answer to this since you are in the legal profession.

Now that Casey Anthony has been aquitted; is it correct to assume that the Department of Family Services could not intervene in any way, in the event she has another child. I am wondering if there is any kind of statute in place that in the event that she had another child, that Famiy Servies could investigate to insure the safety of a future child?

I realize that aquittal does not mean necessarily innocent, and so if there was not enough evidence to convict, is she as innocent as any other parent in the eyes of the law and no jurisdiction to protect future children?

Related to LDSJewess's question for Just_A_Guy...

The Prosecutors didn't make the case for murder... Can they come back with a lesser charge (like abandonment) or did they shoot the whole wad and can't touch her now due to double jeopardy?

[Guest Godless]

^ This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. I'm kinda glad that I wasn't around (in the US) this past month being bombarded with the media circus surrounding this case. The things that Americans obsess over is embarassing sometimes.

[Truegrits]

The things that Americans obsess over is embarassing sometimes.

Yes, showing concern/worry/sadness/anger,etc., over the unexpected and inexplicable disappearance, then death, of a small child is rather an insignificant thing. What was I thinking!?

[Just_A_Guy]

Now that Casey Anthony has been aquitted; is it correct to assume that the Department of Family Services could not intervene in any way, in the event she has another child. I am wondering if there is any kind of statute in place that in the event that she had another child, that Famiy Servies could investigate to insure the safety of a future child?

It's a matter of state law, and I don't know how Florida does things since I'm not licensed there. At least in Utah, DCFS investigations are administrative proceedings that can proceed independently of any court jurisdiction--so, hypothetically, if Casey Anthony were in Utah, DCFS might make an administrative finding of neglect based on evidence that came out at trial. That wouldn't get any future children automatically taken away from the mother; but it makes her ineligible to adopt or be a foster parent and DCFS would probably investigate future complaints much more closely.

The Prosecutors didn't make the case for murder... Can they come back with a lesser charge (like abandonment) or did they shoot the whole wad and can't touch her now due to double jeopardy?

The short answer is: it's complicated. But prosecutors also have limited resources, and it's more than likely they threw everything they had into this first trial and will want to move on to other cases now.

[Traveler]

Traveler,

No problem, I do not offend that easy and do not think of you as harsh and cruel. It is true you do not know me, nor I you, and so we each are entitled to our own opinions.

Although, you guessed correct, I am white; and I can also tell you that I have hugged, held the hand, and advocated for a number of black women who were abused, (at some at the hand of a white abuser). Abuse is abuse and it matters not if the abused or the abuser has light or dark skin.

OJ Simpson was an abuser. Were there witnesses to the murder of his wife Nicole and Mr Goldman? Again rarely are there witnesses to murder. We may never know but we do know that he had abused in the past and that is a fact of record. At the VERY LEAST the man was a violent offender and his color of skin has absolutely nothing to do with that fact. The Simpson trial was a media circus not because of his color rather his celebrity.

Regarding Casey Anthony, is she guilty of murder? Apparently not according to our judicial system and the amount of evidence presented. But that said, she should have been found guilty of abuse. It is a fact that she did not report her child missing for over a month. Pure common sense would show that this alone is endangerment to a two year old child. We have Amber Alert and many options to find missing children when it is reported. Not reporting her missing endangered the child, (assuming she was still alive at the time she actually went missing), which is abuse.

Murder? We may never know. But the entire family seems very dysfunctional, and they need therapy which I hope at least the judge will order long term. If another child is born into that family without serious healing, then another child can be at risk.

Do I bear a burden of this? Yes I do and frankly I do not see that as all negative. I grew up in a time when both child abuse and spousal abuse were not even against the law. And I was indeed a victim of both child and spousal abuse and (none of my abusers were black).

The experiences that I had years ago, made me very aware that bearing a burden to help change the system and lobby for laws to protect the innocent as well as provide safe havens for the abused. Many changes have occurred to portect others because many stood up to bear the burden, and it is far from a waste of precious time. It is truly a labor of love, and indeed whatever I can do to help just a little is very satisfying.

LDSJewess: A couple of things I have learned in life - among the most important is something my father taught me as a boy. Often he would say to me, “Okay son, what happened was not a good thing but what you have to ask your self is - are you going to be part of the solution or are you going to be part of an ongoing problem?”

Something else I have learned from my religion is that revenge is not justice and justice in and of itself cannot end what is put into motion by evil and sin. Righteousness can only come from mercy, compassion and forgiveness. It is most difficult to me to believe that even the most evil and guilt person when they come to stand before G-d would be less sorry for what they have done than any of the rest of us. I have done enough myself that it seems pointless to demand or find hope in justice - and what does that make me to think I should receive mercy and not another?

I served in the military during the Vietnam conflict. One night I was dragged from my bed by several of my comrades that hated “Mormons”. I was beaten and there was an attempt to forcibly have my virtue taken, alcohol induced and my very life was threatened. Only by a miracle was my life, my virtue and my word of wisdom covenant maintained. I knew several that were involved but I could not prove it so I began to plan my revenge. About a month and a half later my entire battalion was given classified combat orders with only 24 hours to prepare before being deployed. Many of my accusers and hated enemies came again to me at night - this time in tears asking for forgiveness and that I would lead them in prayer. I learned a lot about forgiveness that night and I have regretted forever my previous plans for revenge. After our prayer there were many I never saw again. One of my sworn enemies left behind a young wife and infant daughter. Was his death just? Once I prayed thinking so but when his life was taken I wept bitterly. In the end it was not fair. Should I have thought differently had he not been able to find me that last night and ask forgiveness? Now it is me that seeks forgiveness for my thoughts.

One fact not covered very well in the media (about OJ) concerns some gruesome details that would indicate the murders were committed by accomplished assassins associated with a certain Latin American drug cartel. It is known as the Columbian nick tie. I personally doubt such a thing could be pulled off by a single individual as an act of passion. I side with the jury.

Thank you for your labors to help those in need.

The Traveler

Edited July 6, 2011 by Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I'm thinking that if the judge gives her the maximum penalty for lying to the prosecutors, she'll serve about four years--two more. Although it does not seem very satisfying, isn't four years pretty close to the low-end sentencing on manslaughter charges? If so, she gets the worst of both worlds. She serves a few years, and yet keeps the cloud over her of many many people feeling that she got away with it. Also...if she did get away with it...she still bares that guilt. She might be relieved, but she's hardly free. Plus...if she did not do it, then wow, she has paid mightily for her ridiculous choices.

[pam]

Next for Casey Anthony: Freedom, book deals, analysts say - CNN.com

Seems some are predicting she will walk out of jail a free woman after her sentencing tomorrow.

[RescueMom]

I assume she will walk tomorrow on time already served for the other charges....then get a book deal, make millions...

then move to Nevada and marry OJ.

[LDSJewess]

LDSJewess: A couple of things I have learned in life - among the most important is something my father taught me as a boy. Often he would say to me, “Okay son, what happened was not a good thing but what you have to ask your self is - are you going to be part of the solution or are you going to be part of an ongoing problem?”

Something else I have learned from my religion is that revenge is not justice and justice in and of itself cannot end what is put into motion by evil and sin. Righteousness can only come from mercy, compassion and forgiveness. It is most difficult to me to believe that even the most evil and guilt person when they come to stand before G-d would be less sorry for what they have done than any of the rest of us. I have done enough myself that it seems pointless to demand or find hope in justice - and what does that make me to think I should receive mercy and not another?

I served in the military during the Vietnam conflict. One night I was dragged from my bed by several of my comrades that hated “Mormons”. I was beaten and there was an attempt to forcibly have my virtue taken, alcohol induced and my very life was threatened. Only by a miracle was my life, my virtue and my word of wisdom covenant maintained. I knew several that were involved but I could not prove it so I began to plan my revenge. About a month and a half later my entire battalion was given classified combat orders with only 24 hours to prepare before being deployed. Many of my accusers and hated enemies came again to me at night - this time in tears asking for forgiveness and that I would lead them in prayer. I learned a lot about forgiveness that night and I have regretted forever my previous plans for revenge. After our prayer there were many I never saw again. One of my sworn enemies left behind a young wife and infant daughter. Was his death just? Once I prayed thinking so but when his life was taken I wept bitterly. In the end it was not fair. Should I have thought differently had he not been able to find me that last night and ask forgiveness? Now it is me that seeks forgiveness for my thoughts.

One fact not covered very well in the media (about OJ) concerns some gruesome details that would indicate the murders were committed by accomplished assassins associated with a certain Latin American drug cartel. It is known as the Columbian nick tie. I personally doubt such a thing could be pulled off by a single individual as an act of passion. I side with the jury.

Thank you for your labors to help those in need.

The Traveler

Traveler,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.

Although I agree that forgiveness and prayer are ideal; I also firmly believe that we have a great responsibility to defend and protect the innocent, and more often than not it takes a little more than hugs, prayer and forgiveness. Offenders need to WANT to be forgiven, and they need to be willing never to be repeat offenders. This is true from child abuse, hate crimes, terrorism, war and crimes against humanity.

It is nice that you could find peace and a resolution with those who indeed committed a hate crime against you. Had I been a commanding officer and knowledgeable of this I would have called for a court martial of your offenders because they committed a hate crime.

Should the Jews have hugs and prayed with Adolph Hitler and his SS for slaughtering 6 million Jews? Should we have hugged and prayed with Osama Bin Laden and offered him forgiveness for the crimes committed against humanity on 9-11? For that matter should our troops (including your service in Veit Nam - and I thank you for your brave service to our Country), be asking forgiveness from the Veitnamese families who lost loved ones in that war or any war for that matter?

Keep in mind that you willing went to war in Viet Nam in combat to kill other humans? War is horrible and unfortunate. But why did you do it? Because you were willing to protect and defend the citizens of your country. Could have we not just flown to Viet Nam and prayed with them. Not likely.

Death is death and killing is killing. Hate crimes are very dangerous and many who commit hate crimes not only do not want forgiveness, they believe they are doing nothing wrong; and they incite and sometimes even recruit others to participate in their evil.

There is very little difference to me if a child dies at thae hand of an abusive parent, a spouse dies at the hand of an abusive spouse, a man dies from an act of hate against a race, religion or Nation.

I believe we have a repsonsibility to protect the innocent. If we do not, more hate continues and more crimes occur.

There is a two word phrase that is spoken often by Jews in regard to the holocaust. "Never again."

I believe Never Again is not in just regards to the holocaust, but to all crimes against another including abuse of a child, spouse, race, religion or Nation.

We need to develop a zero tolerance for people that commit crimes of hate and murder. If we do not many people will suffer while we stand idly by.

From a spiritual stand point. Does heavenly Father forgive the unrepentant? So far we have heard no remorse regarding the death of Caylee Anthony. No remorse from OJ Simpson. No remorse from Bin Laden. No remorse from Hitler.

I am not saying we should NEVER have a forgiving heart. Forgiveness to those who are repentant and remorseful and have paid their debt to society is one thing. But doing nothing to protect peace loving innocents is another thing indeed.

[HoosierGuy]

I see Headline News received big ratings with this story. It's amazing how low Headline News has sunk. I remember them from the 1980s when they were a solid news update only network. At one time they actually covered real news and was very professional.

Now it's become the Dead Blond Girls From Ages 8 to Mid 30s Who are Pretty and Either Dead or Missing network. Non pretty, ugly, overweight, non white or poor girls need not apply.

Of course they will cover the other missing girls from time to time so they can say they are not racist. But they feast on the blonds who are dead or missing and play it for all it's worth. They are disgusting.

[applepansy]

LDSJewess,

I think part of what Travel is saying is reflected in the following scripture (if not he can correct me):

D&C 64:9

Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.

[pam]

Not walking out of jail today.

[Gretchen]

I would like to point something out which I find interesting; if Casey Anthony were found guilty, she would have faced the death penalty. But, she only was suspected of killing one person. Also, the US has let many serial killers/rapists out of the death penalty, and just sentenced them to life in prison, usually without parole.

Anyone have any insight?

[Just_A_Guy]

Murder cases are typically a matter of state, not federal, law. So you won't see national uniformity in these kinds of things.

Hypothetically, you should see some kind of proportionality on the state level.

[ADoyle90815]

I also think that the not guilty verdict on the most serious charges just means that the jury didn't think the prosecution didn't prove their case beyond the reasonable doubt. It just shows that if there's only circumstantial evidence, and there's a long enough delay in finding the body, it's extremely difficult to get a conviction. It's just the way the American justice system is designed to work, that it's better to have someone like Casey or OJ walk free than to have someone who is truly innocent be convicted. I'm not happy with the verdict, but since I support the country I was born and raised in, I have to accept the jury's decision.

Either way, she's still going to be known as a criminal, as she was convicted of lying to law enforcement, so it's going to be nearly impossible for her to get a job since most places require criminal background checks. There aren't that many employers who are willing to hire someone who was convicted of lying to law enforcement, since if they lie to them, who's to say they're not going to lie to the employer.

[Gretchen]

Either way, she's still going to be known as a criminal, as she was convicted of lying to law enforcement, so it's going to be nearly impossible for her to get a job since most places require criminal background checks. There aren't that many employers who are willing to hire someone who was convicted of lying to law enforcement, since if they lie to them, who's to say they're not going to lie to the employer.

Too true!

[sweetiepie]

Yea, and who isn't going to know who she is? Seriously, how in the world is she going to get a job anywhere? I certainly don't want Casey Anthony serving my french fries. :)

[LDSJewess]

Yea, and who isn't going to know who she is? Seriously, how in the world is she going to get a job anywhere? I certainly don't want Casey Anthony serving my french fries. :)

She won't need to be serving fries. No doubt she has already been approached by several publishers for a million dollar book deal.

Of course she is already being sued by Zenaida Gonzalez who has suffeder loss of job and defamation of charactor by Casey Anthony's lies regarding her dead child being with the "Nanny" who she named as Zenaida Gonzalez. And she will also have to pay restitution for the time and work of the investigation of her "missing child."