Polygamy

[girlygirl]

Just curious to see how people deal with telling friends and acquaintances who are not LDS about why Mormons practiced polygamy and no longer implement it? I find it really hard to say something short and sweet but to the point that makes sense to a non believer?

[NeuroTypical]

Well, the problem I see, is that plural marriage is a very complicated and delicate issue, requiring much shared understanding between people before it can even be discussed. There is no 'short and sweet' way to package it.

I make sure everyone knows we have nothing to do with Warren Jeffs, and that there hasn't been a Mormon poligamist in almost 150 years.

If the person I'm talking to has a sense of humor, my wife and I will often make jokes about having sisterwives and horns and whatnot.

[Spartan117]

Here is what I've learned answering questions to my friends and family after I converted, the only one in my family. They ask about polygamy and the temple and the garden of eden and all kinds of stuff. Here is how to handle this. First, ask them "Do you believe Joseph Smith was called a prophet of God?" and if they so "no" then tell them "then the answers to any other of your questions about the church don't matter." The church makes some bold claims for sure and has a very interesting history. But the road starts with Joseph Smith being a prophet. If they can't get by that, then there isn't anything else to say.

But if you MUST give a short answer, say "revelation"

[girlygirl]

The deal is my friend went up north and wanted to check out a church, thinking it was mormon she called me excited and said she was going to go to 'my church' turns out it was a fundamentalist mormon one and so I told her to steer clear! She then asked me how come we used to practice polygamy and not now? Yet they still do?

Just was thinking it would be a nice piece of info I can put in my back pocket for future times I get asked this. If anyone knows pass on the info and help a sister out! lol

[Spartan117]

The church practiced polygamy openly for about 50 years during a time when the Mormon pioneers were being persecuted and driven from state to state. At one time there was an extermination order making it legal and lawful to murder Mormon's. Once the early Saints made it to Utah and were relatively safe, the church discontinued practicing it.

Fun facts you can throw in there ...

*It was started through revelation, and ended by revelation from God to his Prophet.

*At the end of it all the total number of men who had plural wives made up 5%-20% of the total church.

*Members who DIDN'T obey the church and kept practicing polygamy were excommunicated and spread out into all these little compounds you see on TV now a days. They NO affiliation with our church whatsoever.

*Warren Jeffs has no ties to our church in any way.

*Stress to them this is a part of the church's history, ancient history. It's not practiced anymore.

[Windseeker]

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/36318-polygamy-questions.html

This has some good information

[Spartan117]

Tell them to watch season 1 of Sister Wives.

[girlygirl]

Spartan, for my own info, is this a contributing factor of why the pioneers were persecuted and had to get over to utah as fast as they could?

[Guest gopecon]

girlygirl - It was a contributing factor to the persecution in Nauvoo (based on rumors - it was not that widespread there) and after the move west. It was not an issue in Missouri (the state with the Extermination Order), Ohio, or New York.

A couple other points:

When polygamy was banned, I am pretty sure that no existing relationships were affected. There were just no additional relationships that were sanctioned and entered into.

If it helps you can mention that it was practiced in the Old Testament by several prophets, which shows that it has at times been sanctioned by God.

[Vort]

A couple other points:

When polygamy was banned, I am pretty sure that no existing relationships were affected. There were just no additional relationships that were sanctioned and entered into.

My understanding is that relations (i.e. sex) between the husband and non-first wives were also to stop, but I don't believe this was ever enforced doctrinally or culturally to any degree. I may be wrong. (In which case, why am I even posting this? Mysteries never cease.)

If it helps you can mention that it was practiced in the Old Testament by several prophets, which shows that it has at times been sanctioned by God.

I have heard more than one non-LDS Christian state that OT polygamy was an abomination, but God let it slide. So this may not be a convincing point for some people.

[mightynancy]

and that there hasn't been a Mormon poligamist in almost 150 years

You're kidding, right?

[Dravin]

You're kidding, right?

Indeed. The manifesto is dated 1890, which makes it, at best, 121 years and that's assuming:

1. All polygamist marriages where deemed null and void at that moment.

2. It instantly stopped without requiring some time to 'stamp out'.

My understanding is that neither was the case, it took a decade or more to finally put an end to the practice with the culmination being the policy of excommunication and polygamists cohabiting up until the 1940s and 1950s when they started to die off.

Information from the Utah Historical Encyclopedia published by the University of Utah. Linky: Utah History Encyclopedia (Found by following Wikipedia sources).

Edited August 18, 2011 by Dravin

[HiJolly]

I have a great-grandpa who lived in Logan with his wives until he died in 1932. When he got new hometeachers they always freaked out. :-)

My last living polygamist relative died in 1976 in Provo, UT. *Well*, the last Church-approved polygamist... <oops>

HJ

[Maureen]

Indeed. The manifesto is dated 1890, which makes it, at best, 121 years and that's assuming:

1. All polygamist marriages where deemed null and void at that moment.

2. It instantly stopped without requiring some time to 'stamp out'.

My understanding is that neither was the case, it took a decade or more to finally put an end to the practice with the culmination being the policy of excommunication and polygamist's cohabited up until the 1940s and 1950s when they started to die off.

Information from the Utah Historical Encyclopedia published by the University of Utah. Linky: Utah History Encyclopedia (Found by following Wikipedia sources).

It's good to know that some LDS members realize that the practice did not come to a screeching halt in 1890.

M.

[HiJolly]

It's good to know that some LDS members realize that the practice did not come to a screeching halt in 1890.

M.

The most recently excommunicated apostles were x'ed for adultery. They argued that the only possible charge was not adultery, but polygamy. This was in the 1900's. Wow.

HJ

Edited August 18, 2011 by HiJolly
my thanks to Maureen.

[Maureen]

The most recently excommunicated apostles were x'ed for adultery. They argued that the only possible charge was not adultery, but polygamy. This was in the 1940's (at least, the last one). Wow. No wonder President Grant put a stop to the second anointing!

HJ

I was referring to this:

Reed Smoot hearings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M.

[Suzie]

The most recently excommunicated apostles were x'ed for adultery. They argued that the only possible charge was not adultery, but polygamy. This was in the 1940's (at least, the last one). Wow. No wonder President Grant put a stop to the second anointing!

HJ

Every time I see the picture of Sister Amy Lyman in the RS classroom, the first thing that comes to my mind is her husband. Interesting enough, he lived with his other "wife" for almost 20 years! He was already quite an old man when he was excommunicated.

[Suzie]

My understanding is that relations (i.e. sex) between the husband and non-first wives were also to stop, but I don't believe this was ever enforced doctrinally or culturally to any degree. I may be wrong. (In which case, why am I even posting this? Mysteries never cease.)

Polygamy ceased gradually. Some men left their plural wives based on President Woodruff's Manifesto while others interpreted that it mean new marriages so they continued living with them as husband and wives until their death so we're talking around 1940/50. As a matter of fact, most Church leaders continued living with their plural wives.

[servantofgod]

Just curious to see how people deal with telling friends and acquaintances who are not LDS about why Mormons practiced polygamy and no longer implement it? I find it really hard to say something short and sweet but to the point that makes sense to a non believer?

What ever the history is from this practice always remember our consciousness is constantly growing to higher levels.

So were we learned in the old testament we could punish slaves to a degree they could at least walk and work again after a couple of days and not beat them up that much they would die from it.

This state of consciousness we already passed a long time ago as we feel all humans have equal rights in life.

So is it also with polygamy. Without a true messiah it is easy to loose our way and fall victim to Satan his will and mistakes.

Without experience we would never be in the state of consciousness we are in now and that is exactly what our father knows and why he let Satan do his work.

Some people say if our father is a true god he would never allows his children to be killed, raped or abused in any way and because it happens everywhere he is not a true father.

I asked father a long time ago already why so many people suffer from these mistakes from other people and his answer was it all had to pass to learn from it.

Just as after Jezus was murdered and his true followers where murdered, ridiculed and abounded the way was open again for Satan to do his work.

This happended already many times in the past also before the coming of Jezus.

If it will continue to happen is not a question our father can give us an answer to.

We human kind can only grow if we listen and follow people like Joseph Smith, and other people discovering the true path of our father.

Often we recognize these people to late and they get killed before sharing the complete messages.

I know Joseph Smith as a true profit, as a true man who loved his wife and children, his brothers and sisters, his parents and his heavenly father.

If he would be able to live in these times he would never promote polygamy and he would still be building houses and temples for us and for our father.

With all commodities and knowledge we have nowadays he would build the promised city of Zion, nowadays called "The Venus Project"

This was and is fathers will and we still growing towards that point as new profits arise and the true messiah will return also very soon.

So as someone before me stated, if they do not believe Joseph Smith was a true profit there is nothing more to discuss about as they blind for truth still.

I stop writing as I wrote to much already again.

With kind regards and much blessing,

Leo

[AboutToLeave]

Same reason why in 1978 the priesthood ban on blacks was lifted, men are not allowed to be alone with SS classes, and the penalty vows were removed from the temple ceremony... Public opinion.

in actuality the church still practices polygamy, in that a man can be sealed to more than one woman at a time, however he cannot have sexual relations with anyone but the wife that the local government recognizes.

[john doe]

Same reason why in 1978 the priesthood ban on blacks was lifted, men are not allowed to be alone with SS classes, and the penalty vows were removed from the temple ceremony... Public opinion.

This would be wildly inaccurate. It may be your opinion, but still completely untrue.

[NeuroTypical]

Public opinion.

Well, not exactly. On Polygamy: "I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write."

- President Wilford Woodruff

On blacks and the priesthood: "In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church."

- Doctrine & Covenants, Official Declaration 2

[AboutToLeave]

Interesting that Statehood was at issue when WW received that revelation.

[Madriglace]

Same reason why in 1978 the priesthood ban on blacks was lifted, men are not allowed to be alone with SS classes, and the penalty vows were removed from the temple ceremony... Public opinion.

in actuality the church still practices polygamy, in that a man can be sealed to more than one woman at a time, however he cannot have sexual relations with anyone but the wife that the local government recognizes.

You are wasy out in left field ... strange I read and was moved by an article written by Keith Hamliton in yesterdays LDS Living. I have always just accepted what has come from the General Authorities on this issue but reading this article really shows the depth of Brother Hamiltons understanding of the issue. Have a read!

LDS Living - God Gifted Me My Race

[NeuroTypical]

Interesting that Statehood was at issue when WW received that revelation.

It is a common criticism, for people who do not believe the truth claims of this church, to state that early LDS polygamy was started by man, carried out by men, and ended by men (for political gain, or under threat of destruction, or whatever). You are free to hold this opinion, AboutToLeave, if you wish. Just be aware of site rule #1 of this forum:

1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachers, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere.

If you wish to criticize or allude to derogatory things about this church, you have a lot of public forum choices. But this site is not one of them.