Cross on the temple

[prisonchaplain]

When I was a small child I noticed a small wooden cross with a figure depicting Jesus on my grandmothers wall. I had never gone to church at that time that I remembered. My grandmother told me it was Jesus when He was crucified. I asked her why he was all bloody and looked like he was in a lot of pain. She explained it was to remind people that Jesus died for us. I told her in no uncertain terms that I thought that was horrible and disgusting to make such a thing and put it in anyones house. I remember she tried to explain it to me but I could not see past the horror and cruelty.

Now as an adult my opinion has not changed. I will never understand such a thing. If it offended my soul as an innocent child I have to trust that feeling that it is wrong.

As far as putting it on the temple doors, I have to wonder if they wont change the doors as well. Considering its area though it does make a bit of sense to leave it on for those who have been taught it is a sign of reverence.

What you share is heartfelt and sincere. You deserve the same in return. Growing up I learned about how Jesus died, horribly and cruelly, for my sins. This humbled me. It reminds me that I have been forgiven much, and so should devote myself much. The cross reminds us of the seriousness of our sins. It is negative, a downer, a reminder of past darkness. Sometimes Holy Communion can seem that way--especially the bread, representing his broken body. Then the cup, representing his shed blood. Do you know that the early pagans accused Christians of canabalism, because of this?

As I grew up I heard that some of our larger, more modern churches were doing away with the cross. It was too negative, too gory, to passe. SHAME! I thought. How could they be ashamed of the cross? Or was it pride? They no longer wanted to dwell on their past, nor remember what awaits them, should they stumble or give in to temptation?

To forsake the cross, seemed to me equivalent to forsaking the messy parts of our faith. God does not need me to clean up his religion. I will never apologize for the cross, nor make excuses for what God does.

This is not about idolatry, or not recognizing the resurrection. Nor is it about denying the Garden. Frankly, my concern is more towards those evangelical churches (some, even in my own denomination) that have left the cross, more for marketing reasons than because of sound teaching.

LDS have never embraced the cross as a church symbol. I have no criticism towards you, or your personal sensibilities. However, I hope by sharing this, you will at least understand why many of us evangelicals are passionate about this.

[SteveVH]

What you share is heartfelt and sincere. You deserve the same in return. Growing up I learned about how Jesus died, horribly and cruelly, for my sins. This humbled me. It reminds me that I have been forgiven much, and so should devote myself much. The cross reminds us of the seriousness of our sins. It is negative, a downer, a reminder of past darkness. Sometimes Holy Communion can seem that way--especially the bread, representing his broken body. Then the cup, representing his shed blood. Do you know that the early pagans accused Christians of canabalism, because of this?

As I grew up I heard that some of our larger, more modern churches were doing away with the cross. It was too negative, too gory, to passe. SHAME! I thought. How could they be ashamed of the cross? Or was it pride? They no longer wanted to dwell on their past, nor remember what awaits them, should they stumble or give in to temptation?

To forsake the cross, seemed to me equivalent to forsaking the messy parts of our faith. God does not need me to clean up his religion. I will never apologize for the cross, nor make excuses for what God does.

This is not about idolatry, or not recognizing the resurrection. Nor is it about denying the Garden. Frankly, my concern is more towards those evangelical churches (some, even in my own denomination) that have left the cross, more for marketing reasons than because of sound teaching.

LDS have never embraced the cross as a church symbol. I have no criticism towards you, or your personal sensibilities. However, I hope by sharing this, you will at least understand why many of us evangelicals are passionate about this.

I couldn't have said it better. Thank you very much for your post. The reason it seems horrible and cruel is because it was. The worst crime ever committed in the universe. It is important that we see God's power to overcome the worst evil ever committed and transform it into the greatest good ever to occur. It is important that we see the humility and love of our Savior. To forget his suffering and death in itself would be a great evil. At the last supper we were commanded to remember.

Thanks again.

[HEthePrimate]

My apologies if this has been posted previously, but what are everyones thoughts with regards to the cross that will be on the main doors of the new Rome Italy temple? Particularly, I ask the question in regards to what has been past teachings regarding the cross in the church.

I had not heard that about the Rome temple, but if it's true, it's perfectly all right with me. I am LDS, and as such I am also a Christian, and the Cross is an important Christian symbol.

BTW, the Cross was in fact used by early Mormons. LDS aversion to this symbol is a more recent development. Check it out: Mormons and the cross - Salt Lake Tribune

[SteveVH]

I had not heard that about the Rome temple, but if it's true, it's perfectly all right with me. I am LDS, and as such I am also a Christian, and the Cross is an important Christian symbol.

BTW, the Cross was in fact used by early Mormons. LDS aversion to this symbol is a more recent development. Check it out: Mormons and the cross - Salt Lake Tribune

Thanks for the link. Being Catholic, I had to swallow hard through a lot of the article, but it seemed to be a pretty fair analysis of how the "no cross" policy evolved.

[Blackmarch]

Yeah, it's 4 windows, not a cross intentionally. I wouldn't be surprised if they change it before construction just to avoid any speculation.

In our belief we honor His life and resurrection, and present ourselves as beling living examples of Christ. We have always expressed our belief in the risen Lord, and not the Lord crucified, even though it is reality. This has always been the case with the Church. I can't see that they intentionally designed a cross into the building's architecture. This being a temple makes it all the more symbolic to be a place of living.

The Church has begun to show the crucifixion in it's videos and such, but I don't think we'll ever see a cross put intentionally on a temple, in Rome or anywhere else.

I've been wrong before...

Personally, I don't have a problem with it.

If it was me, id leave it in... Just to drive the conspiracy theorists nuts.

>.>

[HEthePrimate]

Thanks for the link. Being Catholic, I had to swallow hard through a lot of the article, but it seemed to be a pretty fair analysis of how the "no cross" policy evolved.

Unfortunately, there has been some anti-Catholic sentiment among the LDS over the years. Thankfully, I think that has eased up more recently, and I hope you feel welcome here.

[HEthePrimate]

If it was me, id leave it in... Just to drive the conspiracy theorists nuts.

>.>

Where's the "Laugh" button when I need it?

[falasha]

*shrug* When I first saw this thread, I googled crosses on the Rome temple and came across a website from an ex-Mormon talking about how it was only when he left Mormonism that he could understand the true power of the cross. (His conclusion was that this is all some kind of sinister plot to ingratiate ourselves with the local Christian community.)

I'll grant that statements like "power of the cross" probably means something very different than the way outsiders tend to interpret it. But you traditional Christians can sure use some strange vocabulary sometimes, and it leaves the rest of us a mite confused.

[Hello, Kettle. My name is Pot, and I'm very pleased to meet you!]

". . . . Unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

[JimJohnson]

Well, Christ *did* die on a cross as a part of the Atonement. What's the big hoopla??

In our hymnal are several hymns that make the same kind of reference to the cross one normally associates with traditional Christian churches.

[NightSG]

I agree, growing up in the LDS church and culture I was of the thought that any kind of outward celebration (such as wearing jewelery etc) was frowned upon.

Growing up Methodist in a Baptist town, I just wished that tacky displays had been more openly frowned upon.

[NightSG]

Yeah, it's 4 windows, not a cross intentionally.

Maybe it's just a lowercase "t."

[NightSG]

Just a thought, but I have to wonder how much of the cross's longevity and popularity comes from how simple it is. I mean, if Christ had been executed by a modern firing squad, would something as complex as a rifle become such a popular symbol as a pair of straight lines has?

[Anddenex]

I've never met a Christian who worships the cross and forgets Jesus.

Exceptions: those who say Mormons aren't Christians because we don't have a cross on any of our chapels.

This has always been example to me of someone who worships the cross and not the man who was on it.

[JimJohnson]

Exceptions: those who say Mormons aren't Christians because we don't have a cross on any of our chapels.

This has always been example to me of someone who worships the cross and not the man who was on it.

I grew up Baptist before converting to the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by Joseph Smith and Thomas Monson. I loved the cross and still do. But from an LDS perspective it does seem rather morbid. I mean, if the method of execution had been a guillotine instead of a cross, would we all have been wearing little gold guillotines around our necks?

[NightSG]

I've never met a Christian who worships the cross and forgets Jesus.

I've certainly seen plenty of people who display the cross but no other outward indications of Christianity. (You know, the little things; a reasonable attempt at Christlike behavior and such.)

If it was me, id leave it in... Just to drive the conspiracy theorists nuts.

I'm still convinced He made the platypus to drive biologists nuts, so maybe this is Divinely inspired. :)

[SanctitasDeo]

I think that would be cool.

[Just_A_Guy]

". . . . Unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

It seems to me that in 1 Corinthians 1 Paul is speaking of the message or preaching or word (pick your translation) of the cross, not the image of the cross.

[KevlarH]

This is what people are referring to. I'm not convinced the church had a cross in mind.

I can see why it looks like a cross, but honestly I think it is just a decorative door. I have seen this same type of design on lots of doors. They have two smaller squares on the top part of the door and two rectangular designs from the middle to lower part of the door. It is just a coincidence that they resemble a cross. Sorry, but that's all it is. I am looking at my closet doors right now, and they have almost the same design, but it isn't a deliberate cross.

Edited February 12, 2013 by ldrkholt

[annewandering]

Hey my bedroom door has the same design cross. No windows but the old oak door with the four panels. I agree with you, Pam. Its just a nice door.

[Jedi_Nephite]

As LDS, I thought the reason we don't use the cross as a symbol is because, as already mentioned, we prefer to focus on the eternal aspects of Christ's mission rather than his death. But, isn't the other reason also because we believe the actual atonement took place in the Garden of Gethsemane; not on the cross?

[SanctitasDeo]

It started in Gethsemane. It ended on the cross. See this link:

LDS.ORG Atonement

Also, there is a lot of history with the church and the cross. Basically, a long time ago, Protestants, and eventually LDS, did not use the cross. But LDS did early on. Since then, we have thought of many reasons not, too. I think focusing on a living Christ is a good thing, although it doesn't necessarily preclude use of the cross.

[KevlarH]

Agree jedi-Nephite. I have the same understanding, although I will add the death on the cross was part of it too. It had to be, so that Christ could rise again and overcome death. Gethsemene (The Atonement) made it possible for us to overcome spiritual death, and the rising from his death on the cross, to make it possible for us to overcome physical death. The most important part was that he overcame all these things for us. To focus on the cross and death would be focusing on only one part of it, and not the most important part - That he lives, and that he made it possible for us to overcome sin and death.

Edited February 12, 2013 by ldrkholt

[NightSG]

I am looking at my closet doors right now, and they have almost the same design, but it isn't a deliberate cross.

You're just hoping your closet will become some sort of C.S. Lewis-esque portal to the Rome temple.

I guess the real trick would be having multiple portals to ones in different time zones so you can visit 24/7.

[KevlarH]

Lol! :)

[pam]

ldrkholt..who or what is that in your avatar?