z_o_n_e Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Every few weeks, I will kick back and drink 12 beers. I just really enjoy it, relaxing and listening to some music. I don't do anything bad, I just drink at home and play around on the Internet. It is not like I'm addicted to the stuff either, but it is one of the few things I enjoy doing every now and then. In the words of wisdom it reads: "17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain." Quote
FunkyTown Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Yep. It's clearly against the Word of Wisdom. Since one of the benefits of the Word of Wisdom is health and another is increased wisdom and knowledge, I think you can agree: Playing video games all night and downing 12 beers doesn't result in increased knowledge. Quote
z_o_n_e Posted October 21, 2011 Author Report Posted October 21, 2011 Yep. It's clearly against the Word of Wisdom.Since one of the benefits of the Word of Wisdom is health and another is increased wisdom and knowledge, I think you can agree: Playing video games all night and downing 12 beers doesn't result in increased knowledge. This is going to be a difficult thing to overcome. I enjoy my beer ;p Hey, I am learning something right now, right? One of the things I enjoy about beer, is it is the only time I really open up and talk to people. When I am sober, I just clam up and am very self conscious.Bleh, I love the scripture and find truth in it. If it is either the beer or LDS of course I will choose LDS, but it would be a lie to say I won't miss the beer. Quote
FunkyTown Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 This is going to be a difficult thing to overcome. I enjoy my beer ;p Hey, I am learning something right now, right? One of the things I enjoy about beer, is it is the only time I really open up and talk to people. When I am sober, I just clam up and am very self conscious.Bleh, I love the scripture and find truth in it. If it is either the beer or LDS of course I will choose LDS, but it would be a lie to say I won't miss the beer.I completely empathize. When I joined the church, there was nothing I liked more than to sit down on a hot summer day with a bottle of ice cold Strongbow or Magner's. I in no way diminish the change. It's definitely hard. Quote
daboosh Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 We are cautioned by church leaders to stray from anything mind altering or harmful to our bodies. Alcoholic beverages are inclusive of this precept. Good luck! Quote
jerome1232 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 I am curious, what IS a mild drink made from barely? The only drink I can think of that is made from grains is beer, and I'm pretty sure that is not what it means. Quote
pam Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 I do know there is barley water and barley grass juice. Quote
lizrenowden Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 I am curious, what IS a mild drink made from barely? The only drink I can think of that is made from grains is beer, and I'm pretty sure that is not what it means.Well in the UK at least (don't know about the US) we have barleycup - used in place of coffee. Quote
RMGuy Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Originally ZONE, The WoW was given by way of invitation and greeting "To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—". It was not a commandment. Notice too that it talks about temporal salvation as opposed to spiritual salvation. It wasn't until the late 1880's that the church began to really take a stand on the WoW, and not until the early 1920's that it became a requirement for temple attendance. So what you have heard above it correct. Lite beer is against the WoW as it has been explained to us today. It will disqualify you for a temple recommend. However, your take on vs 17 is also correct. As originally given and interpreted beer was acceptable and is indeed the mild drink spoken of in that verse. Similarly the 12 did not substitute water for wine in the sacrament until 1906. During the the mid 1900's WoW violation was also subject to church discipline. That is no longer the case, but it will, as stated above disqualify you for participation in some ordinances. -RM Quote
beefche Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Originally ZONE, During the the mid 1900's WoW violation was also subject to church discipline. That is no longer the case, but it will, as stated above disqualify you for participation in some ordinances. -RMWhat ordinances will it not disqualify one from participation? Quote
RMGuy Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 What ordinances will it not disqualify one from participation?"A disciplinary council should not be held to discipline or threaten members of who not comly with the Word of Wisdom...""A bishop interviews and member of his ward who confesses or is accused of a serious transgression""Only a Melchizedk Priesthood holder who is worthy to hold a temple recommend may act as voice in confirming a person a member of the Church, conferring the Melchizedk Priesthood, ordaining a person to an office in that priesthoood, or setting apart a person to serve in a Church calling. As guided by the Spirit....bishops and stake presidents have discretion to allow priesthood holders who are not fully temple worthy to perform or participate in some ordinances and blessings."Based on that here are some of the ordinance that WoW violation would not disqualify an individual for automatically. Partaking of the SacramentNaming and blessing of childrenBaptism of childrenOrdaining children to Aaronic PriesthoodBeing in the circle but not voice for Melchizedek priesthood ordinationBeing in the circle for the setting apart of a family memberConsecrating OilAdministering to the sickFather's blessing and blessing of comfort or counselDedicating of a graveDedicating a homeTo name a few.....-RM Quote
Guest gopecon Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Problems with the word of wisdom can affect your ability to participate in a lot of the ordinances that you list. If I were to go to another unit of the Church to ordain someone, baptize, or take part in an official ordinance the bishop there has a right to ensure my worthiness. The easiest way to do that is to check my temple recommend, which I would not have if I had WofW issues. As for the private ordinances (administering to the sick, father's blessings, etc.), you are correct that a WofW issue does not automatically preclude one from doing these, but I would suggest that the likelihood of them having the Spirit with them is diminished when they are engaging in destructive habits. If I'm the sick person and I have a choice, I would choose the Elder whose keeping the WofW (all other things being equal - obviously there are other less visible sins that can be more destructive that the WofW). Quote
RMGuy Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Gopecon, Your statements above are true, but I'm going to go back to beefche's original question which was "What ordinances will it not disqualify one from participation?" I'll stand by my statement above. All of those indicated above MAY BE performed by an individual that is NOT living the WoW. That is straight from the handbook. You are correct that the EASIEST way to verify your ability to participate is to check your temple recommend, but it is not the only way to check your ability to participate. Again from the handbook, "...a priesthood holder who is outside his own ward should show the presideing officer a current temple recommend or a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance form that is signed by a member of his bishopric." So it is not the only way. You are of course entitled to your opinion that the Spirit would withdraw itself if someone was not living the WoW, however it didn't seem to do that to Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, or many of the Presiding Patriarchs of the Church. You are entitled to have or not have anyone perform an ordinance for you, or to be part of that circle. However, not living the WoW does not preclude individuals from participating in the ordinances listed above, which was the original question. -RM Quote
AGStacker Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 What ordinances will it not disqualify one from participation?Baptism. I would imagine that a Bishop would still let a father baptize his child if he is drinking. Quote
MarginOfError Posted October 21, 2011 Report Posted October 21, 2011 Every few weeks, I will kick back and drink 12 beers. I just really enjoy it, relaxing and listening to some music. I don't do anything bad, I just drink at home and play around on the Internet. It is not like I'm addicted to the stuff either, but it is one of the few things I enjoy doing every now and then.In the words of wisdom it reads:"17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."I am curious, what IS a mild drink made from barely? The only drink I can think of that is made from grains is beer, and I'm pretty sure that is not what it means.One important aspect to remember is that the text of the Word of Wisdom given in D&C 89 does not prohibit the consumption of "mild drink." Mild drinks are those that are produced through a fermentation process, such as beer and wine. The original prohibition was one of hard drink, or drinks that are produced through a distillation process, such as vodka, scotch, or whiskey. The current prohibition against all alcoholic beverages was formalized by a later prophet of the Church. We have to be careful not to look at the revelations recorded in the 1830s and forget about all the revelations and counsel that has been given in the following 180 years. Quote
prophetofdoom Posted October 22, 2011 Report Posted October 22, 2011 I thought I read somewhere that Joseph Smith had a beer at Moissers. Quote
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