Church's position on sexual activity between husband and wife

[Dravin]

So, do you mean this quote? Where you are essentially saying that the spirit is not present during intimate time? Am I misunderstanding you? Because your posts tell me that you think that the presence of the Spirit during sex is wrong, pervy and generally not feasible.

I'm suspecting it's a confusion of terms, some are taking presence to be a literal 'physical' presence (though they are doing this despite repeated clarifications), others are taking it in the same sense that during general conference the spirit can be present in hundreds of thousands of homes, but it doesn't mean a sliver of spiritual body is in house A, and another sliver in house B.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Dravin

[beefche]

Well, first of all I would like to say that the Holy Ghost is one of the most mysterious members in the Godhead, IMO. I believe we know very little about "him" compared to what we know of Christ or Heavenly Father so personallyI don't feel I could make a declarative statement on what "he" can or cannot do. I cannot even figure out how his influence travels around.

Having said that, answering your last question, I don't think people in general are fond of the idea of someone being present during an intimate act.

Suzie, I think this is the first post from someone who disagrees that is without a joke, coherent, and respectful. Thank you.

I'm perfectly fine if others disagree with me. What I found baffling was that everyone seemed to think that the Spirit is somehow sitting in a chair actually watching when I (and others) never said that (and in fact, specifically spoke against that).

FTR, I don't think He, personally, is there. I do, however, think that since I have the gift of the HG and by that have the right to have the constant companionship of the Spirit, that it is entirely feasible to me that He can have his presence (not person, but presence) felt/experienced during sex.

[Suzie]

Darn it, you all have me up, I should be in bed sleeping!

[Bini]

OK I've been trying to follow this discussion and really, you're all basically saying the same thing but don't seem to agree for whatever reason. Anyway, I'll answer Beefche's question about why can't the Spirit be present during intimacy? When I'm with my husband, we both enjoy ourselves and it just feels good. Would I classify this feeling as a spiritual experience? Not really. To be honest, it isn't a spiritual feeling for me at all, just a feel good one with my husband. I don't know about other couples but there are even times that we just want to do a quickie and that definitely isn't a spiritual experience. So I don't know whether that makes our intimacy frowned upon by the Lord or shoos away the Holy Ghost. I guess you'll get different opinions from different people.

[pam]

So are we all in agreement then? Or is there still some confusion?

[annewandering]

So are we all in agreement then? Or is there still some confusion?

seconded:cool:

[pam]

OK I've been trying to follow this discussion and really, you're all basically saying the same thing but don't seem to agree for whatever reason. Anyway, I'll answer Beefche's question about why can't the Spirit be present during intimacy? When I'm with my husband, we both enjoy ourselves and it just feels good. Would I classify this feeling as a spiritual experience? Not really. To be honest, it isn't a spiritual feeling for me at all, just a feel good one with my husband. I don't know about other couples but there are even times that we just want to do a quickie and that definitely isn't a spiritual experience. So I don't know whether that makes our intimacy frowned upon by the Lord or shoos away the Holy Ghost. I guess you'll get different opinions from different people.

But then we aren't talking about sex being a spiritual experience. We were discussing whether the influence of the Holy Ghost could still be there during sex.

[annewandering]

But then we aren't talking about sex being a spiritual experience. We were discussing whether the influence of the Holy Ghost could still be there during sex.

as a carry over from the other thread i am not sure its that clear cut.

[Dravin]

When I'm with my husband, we both enjoy ourselves and it just feels good. Would I classify this feeling as a spiritual experience?

You err in equating (in a mathematical sense) 'spiritual experience' with the influence of the spirit. I have the presence of the spirit with me right now as I type this post, not because I am in the middle of some spiritual fervor, but because I have the gift of the Holy Ghost and I am not grieving it.

I repeat, the baseline for a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who is living worthily of the spirit is to have it's presence with them.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Dravin

[Suzie]

Suzie, I think this is the first post from someone who disagrees that is without a joke, coherent, and respectful. Thank you.

Hey, I don't disagree with you. I believe the Holy Ghost influence can be felt at all times. I merely answered your question on why people may think the Holy Ghost cannot be present during lovemaking (I believe when people think of "him" think of a "man", you know... a body and that's why they have problems with the idea). What I cannot do also is define exactly what he does or what he doesn't.

[Bini]

You err in equating (in a mathematical sense) 'spiritual experience' the influence of the spirit. I have the presence of the spirit with me right now as I type this post, not because I am in the middle of some spiritual fervor, but because I have the gift of the Holy Ghost and I am not grieving it.

I repeat, the baseline for a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who is living worthily of the spirit is to have it's presence with them.

Ahhh! I'm totally getting what you're saying here. Yes, I agree then.

[Suzie]

Okay now that everyone agrees I am going to sleep! Nice debate guys. :)

[slamjet]

Wait, wait, wait....

There's a concern if the spirits are watching us during "intimate time" or when we are in the nude, but there's no thought as to them watching us sitting on a toilet? What if I'm passing the time away while I'm passing lunch and reading the Ensign, or a "church-ish book" and I feel the influence of the spirit witnessing to me what I'm reading is true and I should pay attention (and yes, I will admit that happening to me). I figure that if they can see my disgusting over-weight self changing clothing then what the heck.

But I have a feeling that they have better things to do than to stare.

[beefche]

Ahhh! I'm totally getting what you're saying here. Yes, I agree then.

See? If everyone would just say this after every one one of my posts, everything would be great!

[pam]

Group hug group hug.

[annewandering]

See? If everyone would just say this after every one one of my posts, everything would be great!

I totally agree with Suzie.

[slamjet]

See? If everyone would just say this after every one one of my posts, everything would be great!

You now have a husband eternally betrothed to accommodate that request.

[pam]

Whew...a debate that ended well. I like these. :)

[Dravin]

Ahhh! I'm totally getting what you're saying here. Yes, I agree then.

Yay!

Which brings me back to my original comment, that kinda snowballed into this whole mess, about how as long as we aren't grieving the spirit by our intimate acts we're acting appropriately to God's standards. It's the same with any behavior we might engage in, if the spirit flees then we shouldn't participate in that behavior.

[pam]

Of course I've been divorced for 12 years so I really don't know what you all are talking about. I just wanted to be involved in the conversation. :)

[HEthePrimate]

(Accidental double post.)

Edited October 29, 2011 by HEthePrimate

[HEthePrimate]

Oh my, I didn't expect my little joke to elicit such strong feelings. (sigh)

In any case, and on a more serious note, I'm honestly not sure that God really cares what kind of sexual activities you engage in with your spouse. What I think God is more concerned with is the type of relationship you have with your spouse. If you are respectful and kind to each other, and both partners enjoy the experience, I suspect that God is just happy that you're happy with each other. What you should not do sexually is anything that your partner doesn't want to do, or that makes them uncomfortable. It's not so much about what specific activities you engage in, as it is your attitude towards each other, and the consideration you give to each other.

We are adults here. You can decide for yourselves whether or not to play Nurse Candy and Doctor Studmuffin--you don't need permission.

Edited October 29, 2011 by HEthePrimate

[Backroads]

Whew, that was a fun ten pages to read!

As it stands, I'm utterly and bewilderingly lost over the "presence of spirits and/or Holy Ghost during marital intimacy" debate.

As to the OP, if he/she is still around reading...

From what I understand, oral sex was once described as inappropriate. I don't know if that statement was been officially renounced, but the Church, as far as I'm aware, no longer specifically condemns it.

From the handbook: "Adultery, fornication, homosexual or lesbian relations, and every other unholy, unnatural, or impure practice are sinful." Specific relationships are listed as well as rather vague practices and I suppose we could spend the rest of our lives debating what's unholy/unnatural/impure. I'm sorry if that doesn't do a good job of answering your question, but it's really all I can find. If some GA or another said something more specific in a talk, I would love to see it, but I also think that if it were a crucial matter the Church would bring it up more.

In my view, I really don't want to know about the sexual activities of others and would rather assume that whatever they are doing, they are both in agreement and have reached this agreement after thought and discussion. I know this can be a dangerous statement, but I figure if they think it's appropriate, who am I to judge? As for my personal view on the appropriateness/inappropriateness of oral sex, I don't think that's appropriate for these particular forums.

[Vort]

I'm honestly not sure that God really cares what kind of sexual activities you engage in with your spouse. What I think God is more concerned with is the type of relationship you have with your spouse.

God cares about every aspect of our world. He sees every sparrow fall. But you think he simply doesn't care about sex between married people?

Sex, at its best, is one of the most godly and glorious activities given us in this world. At its worst, it is a perversion of what is right, and thus a potent tool for our destruction, as is easily verified simply by looking around. This is as true within marriage as outside of it.

You truly do not think God cares how we use such a powerful, godly, soul-enriching (and potentially soul-destroying) gift within our marriages?

I disagree.

We are adults here. You can decide for yourselves whether or not to play Nurse Candy and Doctor Studmuffin--you don't need permission.

But this is not about gaining permission. This is about putting our will in line with God's and not grieving the Spirit.

[annewandering]

It is very obvious that people even in the church have very different ideas as to what is ok and what is not. I see nothing wrong with things like doctor/nurse even if I never have done that. A lot depends on if you regard sex as serious business or fun.

Even though it is for serious purposes, to me, I am not much for making it serious business.