Problem with the Bishop

[Jezebel2011]

I informed the Bishop at the beginning of September that I wanted to take my Endowments on 3rd December. It takes a few weeks to get an appointment with our Bishop so thought I would give him advance notice.

He put me off with excuse after excuse. I started the Temple Prep Class late so can only have 6 and not the 7.

Have had two one and a half hour meetings with him but he is still not forthcoming with a Temple Recommend Interview date. He reprimanded me for choosing a date for my Endowment.

Then started accusing me that a member left the church because of me - I had no idea what was going on and it most certainly had nothing whatsoever to do with me.

I had a Limited Use Temple Recommend Interview on 25th October with the 1st Councillor.

I am really fed up that he seems to be stalling on doing the interview.

Have sent a letter to the Stake President but am not sure what, if anything, he can do to help me.

Any advice would be most helpful please

[Guest mormonmusic]

You need to call your Executive Secretary and set up an appointment with the Bishop. Don't wait for the Bishop to be proactive. For now, I would work on getting the TR. I wouldn't make an issue about the rumor you made someone quit the Church unless he does -- at least not for now. If it stymies your progres you'll need to talk about what you were purported to have done and present your case.

Try not to let the frustration get in your way -- be nicer than you think you should be, and talk about it calm and level-headed...

You might've made a faux pas with the letter to the SP. People generally don't like it when people go over their heads. However, now that it's in the works, you better have a reasonable explanation as to why you went over his head -- if the SP even does anything about it. I expressed concern once to a Stake President about something I thought was of huge gravity and he blew me off. Not because they aren't good people trying their best, it's that they are part-time and have full-time jobs, and so, you don't get the level of "service" you might expect from a paid professional -- especially on matters that have to do with personal interests like yours -- as sad as that can be.

Also, you can express your perception that he seems to be tying up your interview -- ask if that is true, and let him respond if you can't get the appointment, or he stalls in the interview you set with the Executive Secretary.

It's also uneven in the Church -- some BP and SP are highly responsive, however, others are not...

[Jezebel2011]

We don't have an Executive Secretary.

I have an appointment booked with the Bishop after Church on Sunday but there is no way I am going through another hour and a half of what I have been through already.

There isn't just the one issue, though.

The Bishop accused me of all sorts of stuff that was totally untrue. Another issue was my doing service for a friend at church, "taking away the right of the vt's to serve" when she hadn't had any vt's for years and didn't even know who they were supposed to be.

Also with the member leaving the Church - that the Bishop demanded that I go to see her. She hasn't heard from the Bishop at all, he hasn't bothered himself to try to even talk to her. It is HIS job to go and see a member, not mine

The problem with the Bishop is that he will not listen to a word I say. That is why it had to go to the Stake.

Our Stake President is just superb and I am sure that he will help out.

Other than that I am prepared to wait four years to get my Full Temple Recommend and my Patriarchal Blessing, when we have a change of Bishop

Edited November 25, 2011 by Jezebel2011

[pam]

Other than that I am prepared to wait four years to get my Full Temple Recommend and my Patriarchal Blessing, when we have a change of Bishop

While the standard is usually 5 years, I've known a few that have been a Bishop for over 10 years straight. I'd try and get it worked out rather than just wait. You are missing out on the blessings by trying to wait it out.

[sister_in_faith]

When I joined the church I was told that new members get their temple recommend one year after baptisim. No one bothered to tell me that women don't necessarily get that same treatment. I was told when I went in to ask for my recommend that I was too young. I was so upset that I called my 'mentor' in the church and asked her what I should do. I mean, obviously this was a mistake, right? She told me that I had to write a letter to the prophet. I did. I called her up and told her I just sent him a letter. She freaked out. Apparently she was joking. Well, it was too late to stop the letter. There wasn't anything mean or bad in it, it just showed that I didn't know what the heck I was talking about. I got called into the SP's office and counseled over it. And the bishop was a little POed, but everything worked out and a year later I got my recommend. It all worked out in the end and was worth the wait.

[NeuroTypical]

So, a temple recommend interview involves answering some questions. Here are a few questions: "Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?"

Problem with the Bishop

He put me off with excuse after excuse.

The Bishop accused me of all sorts of stuff

It is HIS job to go and see a member, not mine

I am really fed up that he seems to be stalling on doing the interview.

The problem with the Bishop is

It sounds to me like you may have some problems sustaining your Bishop, therefore could not answer "yes", therefore are not worthy for a temple recommend.

Another question: "Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?"

Have had two one and a half hour meetings with him but he is still not forthcoming with a Temple Recommend Interview date.

He reprimanded me

Then started accusing me

there is no way I am going through another hour and a half of what I have been through already.

It sounds like the Bishop thinks there are some unresolved things going on, and it sounds like he may have some misgivings about your worthiness to enter the temple.

I'm thinking going over his head to the Stake, isn't bringing you any closer to your endowments...

[Jezebel2011]

I have not done anything wrong in any way whatsoever. I had my Limited Use Temple Recommend on 25th October.

I will not be reprimanded for things I have not done, whether he is the Bishop or not. I will not be accused of stuff I haven't done, or had any involvement in.

Where age is concerned, I am old enough to be our Bishop's Mother!

When the Bishop will not listen then the only way forward was to go to our Stake President. Our Bishop is a lovely man I just don't understand what is going on.

[john doe]

I'm guessing that there is much more to this story than what you are telling. Let's please be careful of site rules in discussing these things.

[NeuroTypical]

"Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?"

I see you justifying your "no". I mean, that's ok - answering honestly is great.

Best of luck to you.

[annewandering]

When I joined the church I was told that new members get their temple recommend one year after baptisim. No one bothered to tell me that women don't necessarily get that same treatment. I was told when I went in to ask for my recommend that I was too young. I was so upset that I called my 'mentor' in the church and asked her what I should do. I mean, obviously this was a mistake, right? She told me that I had to write a letter to the prophet. I did. I called her up and told her I just sent him a letter. She freaked out. Apparently she was joking. Well, it was too late to stop the letter. There wasn't anything mean or bad in it, it just showed that I didn't know what the heck I was talking about. I got called into the SP's office and counseled over it. And the bishop was a little POed, but everything worked out and a year later I got my recommend. It all worked out in the end and was worth the wait.

lol it worked out fine. Why was the stake president po'd? You did what you thought was the right thing to do. By the way did you get a response from your letter?

[annewandering]

Ok this is confusing to me. Obviously I am easily confused any more!

So she went to the SP. My husband went to the SP once. The bishop was very rude to him and he could not understand why. The SP was very helpful to him and he felt a lot better afterwards. It turns out later that some idiot reported to the bishop that he was having an affair with some lady at the other end of a route getting seed potatoes. It would have been a lot better if the bishop had just pulled him in and asked but he didnt and just kept glaring at him at church and looking at me as if I had mud on my face.

The woman he was supposedly having the affair with? His neice, who was kinda nice looking actually, came out to the potato cellar and brought her kids out for him to met. Yep it was totally evil. Ironically the guy that told the bishop my husband was having an affair actually was having an affair and was later excommunicated for it.

The point is that bishops can make mistakes. They are human. While it may be better to try to work it out sometimes it takes a 3rd party stepping in like the SP. :)

[Vort]

When I joined the church I was told that new members get their temple recommend one year after baptisim.

Hopefully, you now know that this is false. New members receive a temple recommend when they are ready for it, which may be more than a year, or less for a baptismal recommend. For an endowment recommend, one year is the minimum time.

No one bothered to tell me that women don't necessarily get that same treatment.

In what sense do you think "women don't [...] get that same treatment?"

[sister_in_faith]

lol it worked out fine. Why was the stake president po'd? You did what you thought was the right thing to do. By the way did you get a response from your letter?

The SP wasn't really POed, the bishop was... Apparently Pres. Monson got my letter and rerouted it back to the SP. And the SP brought me in because of the letter, and then explained to me that young women are encouraged to wait until marriage to get endowed, or they have to be 'beyond hope' of ever being married, or on their way to a mission. They pointed out that while there was a large percentage of the young men in my YSA ward that had TRs, there were only 2 or 3 of the young women who did, and they didn't really think it was fair for a convert to get a TR over some of the other young women who were life time members.

They kept telling me that it wasn't a worthiness issue, but a timing issue, and they didn't want a bunch of the other young women to see me getting a temple recommend, and then start bugging the bishop that they should get one too. I don't know, it was politics I didn't want to get involved with.

It was so hard for me, because I kept thinking it had to be something wrong on my end. I kept asking the bishop what I needed to do to improve to be worthy, and at first he would give me scriptures to read, and kept sending me to temple prep class, then finally he was like, stop bugging me, it's not you.

I dropped the issue, and just continued to study on my own, and pray, and go do baptisms, and walk around the temple, and then when the bishop was on his way out (no one else knew that he was going to leave) he called me in and as one of his last 'acts' gave me a temple recommend.

It was several years ago, but those are the basics I remember.

[sister_in_faith]

And even tho the process was a little painful and confusing to me, it really did all work out for the best. I needed the extra time to mature a little in the gospel, and if they had waited any longer, I think I would have stopped wanting to go to the temple as badly as I did.

Heavenly Father had my best interests at heart, and it worked out very well.

[miztrniceguy]

My wife and I were married in the temple with her receiving her endowment the week before. Other than one part that would have been eliminated had she previously been endowed, I don't see what the issue is. Sister missionaries are endowed, so their future husbands miss that step, so otherwise I see no point in denying the blessings of the temple to a worthy single adult non-RM female. My wife actually had a recommend before we met, but had not gone yet.

[Mamas_Girl]

the SP brought me in because of the letter, and then explained to me that young women are encouraged to wait until marriage to get endowed, or they have to be 'beyond hope' of ever being married, or on their way to a mission.

FWIW, I was told the same thing back in the 80s. I was every missionary's dream -- I called a number in the phone book and asked how to join. I'd heard about the church years before, but knew little. The elder who answered the phone was a zone leader and was saddened by the fact he had to hand me over to the campus elders.

After having been a member for about a year a friend was getting married in the temple and I wanted to attend so I talked to my branch president who told me that I had to either be getting married or going on a mission. Exactly the same as Sister In Faith.

Young men are expected to go on missions when they turn 19, young ladies if they're not married by the age of 21 are permitted to go on missions. Apparently as sisters we're expected to focus more on marriage than missions. I chose to serve a mission at 21 and got my endowments then, but even then my branch president was slow on getting me to the temple. I seem to recall that it was about a week before I was to enter the MTC that I got my endowments.

I'm not sorry that there was a wait to go through the ceremony. It gave me more time for reflecting on the scriptures, and for prayer, and all the other preparation that goes along with it. Due to my inactivity over the last 25 years, I was planning to go to the temple again in August of 2012 (my parent's wedding anniversary), figuring that I would have to be a member for a little over a year but my bishop decided that 6 months was all that was required since my inactivity had nothing to do with the church. Now I plan to go in a few months and give myself the great birthday present of having me sealed to my parents for time and all eternity. What a birthday that will be! Now to track down my stake president to get my recommend completed.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Mamas_Girl

[Jezebel2011]

I'm guessing that there is much more to this story than what you are telling. Let's please be careful of site rules in discussing these things.

Actually, no there is not

I have not done anything wrong in any way whatsoever. If I had been reprimanded for something I HAD done I would have accepted it. The reason I am not accepting it is because it is 100% not true.

I am totally worthy in every single way.

Considering we are taught to be 'non-judgmental' there is a lot of judging going on!

Am waiting to hear from the SP

[Dravin]

Considering we are taught to be 'non-judgmental' there is a lot of judging going on!

Which might ring true if you weren't coming online and asking people to judge the situation.

[NeuroTypical]

I am totally worthy in every single way.

Oh - so you've changed your answer about sustaining your Bishop then?

Because again - a question they ask in the temple recommend interview: "Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?"

And again, it seems like your answer is "No, I don't sustain my bishop. He's wrong, I'm right, and he won't listen, and I will NOT be accused, etc, etc."

Again, I wish you well.

[JudoMinja]

Jezebel- From the tone of your posts, I think you are having an issue with pride. You seem to think you are completely worthy of a temple recommend, and you may well be, but being worthy does not always = temple recommend. As you can see from some of the examples others here have provided, it is quite normal for people to be expected to wait to go through their endowment session, even if they are worthy to receive it. Just because you think you are doing everything you are supposed to be doing, does not mean that a temple recommend is your by right. It is a priviledge, a blessing, a gift. Our worthiness qualifies us for the endowment, but we do not "earn" it.

You seem to feel as though the bishop is preventing you from having something that you rightfully deserve, but this is not so. Even if your bishop is wrong about whatever suspicions he may have about your worthiness, putting off your interview and causing you to wait longer does not in any way prevent you from receiving the blessings God wants to bestow upon you. Even if this whole thing is just a big misunderstanding and you are right and have done nothing wrong, the delay is not a slight of your character or a judgement call. It is an opportunity for you to build more Christ-like characteristics of compassion, patience, understanding, and humility.

Remember too what questions are asked in a temple recommend interview. As LM has pointed out, sustaining your leaders is a requirement for worthiness of the temple. Can you and do you sustain your bishop, even though you feel he has misjudged you? Can you suffer his questions, concerns, and consternation with patience and humility in order to clear your name and prove your worthiness? Might you be able to put yourself in his shoes and try to understand where he is coming from and why he may be acting as he is?

Also- are you sure you understand what you are going into should you get your recommend? An endowment is not a "right". It is not earned. It is not something you deserve. When you get your endowment, you are making a promise- that you will keep all the covenants and commandments you have made, and God will bless you in return. That you will "endure to the end" and strive to master yourself- your hungers, your pains, your emotions, your desires. That you will seek to build in yourself more Christ-like and God-like characteristics. Think for a moment of the anger you feel toward your bishop, and ask yourself if this is really fitting of someone worthy of temple blessings, of someone striving to be like Christ. It does not even matter if you are completely right and he is completely wrong. Are you striving to be Christ-like in your "dealings with your fellow man"?

I, personally, do not yet have my endowment, simply because I do not feel that I am ready for it. I could go into an interview and answer all the temple recommend questions positively- I am "worthy" to receive my endowment. But I also understand what an enormous commitment I would be making, and I want to be absolutely certain that I can keep up my end of the bargain. I have been studying and praying and striving to better understand what will be expected of ME when I make that commitment and if I even want the blessings that come with it. If/when I reach a point where I feel ready, I would not at all be put off if my bishop caused delays- because this is something that SHOULD be waited for. It is something that takes time, preparation, and study. It is not something to be taken lightly.

[FunkyTown]

Jezebel?

I get it. You're upset. You feel as if this isn't fair - That you've done everything right and that someone broke their promise that you could go to the temple.

However, have you noticed that you seem very angry that the Bishop is taking his role seriously?

Ask yourself a few questions:

1) Do you feel the Bishop is inspired to grant you council?

2) Do you feel that there might be a reason you aren't being endowed?

You're coming across as confrontational. I get it - Heck, me saying not to get confrontational is kind of "Hi, pot? This is the kettle. You're black.", but there you have it. You'll be endowed when you're ready. :)

Actually, no there is not

I have not done anything wrong in any way whatsoever. If I had been reprimanded for something I HAD done I would have accepted it. The reason I am not accepting it is because it is 100% not true.

I am totally worthy in every single way.

Considering we are taught to be 'non-judgmental' there is a lot of judging going on!

Am waiting to hear from the SP

[Mamas_Girl]

You'll be endowed when you're ready. :)

I've been thinking that all day. We don't decide when we're ready, the Lord does. Trust me, I've learned about setting down rules with God... The old I'll do this if God does that. It just doesn't work that way. God has taught me the meaning of patience and humility a few too many times. And I mean a few too many only because I should have learned the first time. Thank God he's patient and forgiving.

[Jezebel2011]

All I want is to be allowed to take the Temple Recommend Interview. The Bishop put me through the Temple Prep Classes. I have been through the Temple Prep Lessons that the Bishop takes too.

The Bishop has not said that I am not worthy to enter the Temple. He just has not done the interview.

However, I am being blamed for another Member leaving the Church. I don't know why I am being blamed, since I had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

I have had a chat with the Member concerned and she is going to email the Bishop on the subject, since she knows full well her decision had nothing to do with me. The reason she has left the Church was that, because of her Calling as 2nd Councillor in Primary, she was required to do things with Primary for Hallowe'en, Remembrance Sunday and Christmas. She does not agree with teaching children that Christ was born on 25th December when we know that he was not. That comes from her teachings as a former JW of 30 years standing.

[Jezebel2011]

I've been thinking that all day. We don't decide when we're ready, the Lord does. Trust me, I've learned about setting down rules with God... The old I'll do this if God does that. It just doesn't work that way. God has taught me the meaning of patience and humility a few too many times. And I mean a few too many only because I should have learned the first time. Thank God he's patient and forgiving.

That is not true.

If I were getting married in the Temple I would be Endowed to do it. Nobody has been made to wait for Endowment when they wanted that done.

[Guest]

I feel for you, Jezebel. I would be very frustrated if I were in a situation as you've stated it.

I received my endowment before I met DH. I think that was in a time period where they weren't quite so against it. My bishop was very leery of giving me a recommend, because I was young and inexperienced and he wanted to make sure I understood the gravity of the covenants I'd be making. But he did give me the interview and sent me on to the SP, who I knew well and who was happy for me to be making that step. As it turned out I met my husband a few months later, and I think I needed that extra spiritual boost to be ready and equally yoked with him.

I hope all of this can be resolved with the help of your friend and your SP. From what I read here it sounds like you're handling it with more patience and grace than I might.