Problem with the Bishop

[annewandering]

Sometimes life just isnt fair. Apparently it is now time for you to practice faith and patience. Good luck and hopefully soon your patience will be rewarded. :)

[john doe]

I don't know what church you are attending, but The LDS Church does not teach that Jesus was born on Dec. 25 despite the fact that we celebrate it on that day.

It seems to me that you need to set an appointment with your bishop and talk over your righteous desires in a non-confrontational manner. If you exhibit humility and a willingness to follow his counsel, you may be surprised at how much help he can be in helping you achieve the desires of your heart. An adversarial relationship with your bishop rarely results in your feeling uplifted or advancing your relationship the Savior.

[pam]

She does not agree with teaching children that Christ was born on 25th December when we know that he was not. That comes from her teachings as a former JW of 30 years standing.

I was a Primary President for several years and have taught Primary at almost every age level. We never taught that Jesus was born on December 25th.

We taught of the Savior's birth. We taught of the shepherds watching over their flocks and seeing the star announcing his birth. We taught the story of Mary and Joseph and no room in the inn. We taught the story of Jesus being born in a manger. We taught that Christmas day was a day to celebrate the Savior's birth. But we didn't teach that Jesus was born on December 25th. What day it actually happened on is minor compared to the importance of knowing about the circumstances surrounding the birth of the Savior.

[beefche]

It sounds to me that the primary counselor still believes in at least some cultural aspects of her JW teachings. If she, personally, didn't want to celebrate Halloween, Christmas or whatever (what is Remembrance Sunday???), then she should have talked to the primary president and let her know she couldn't help on those particular activities. The primary president might not understand, but I can't see a PP not accepting that and giving her other duties to perform while the other counselor or herself took on those duties.

[beefche]

Back to the point that you are being accused of "making" her leave: Instead of getting offended and adversarial about the situation, I suggest you calmly talk to your bishop to find out why he believes such.

This may be an opportunity for you to show tolerance, patience, and forgiveness as well as teach someone about trusting rumors/gossip or other stories without verifying the information. Sometimes, unfortunate things happen to teach us and those around us valuable lessons.

[Mamas_Girl]

Nobody has been made to wait for Endowment when they wanted that done.

May I ask why you set December 3 as your endowment date? Is there going to be a big church trip to the temple on that date, or does it have some sort of special significance? From what I've seen you aren't planning on getting married in the temple, and you're not planning on going on a mission, you just want your endowments, so why the rush?

As I said, it's not true that nobody has to wait for their endowments. I had to wait almost 2 full years and would not have been allowed to have it then, except I was getting ready to leave for my mission. We didn't live close enough to a temple so I had to go when the branch took their trip a *week* before I was to leave for my mission!

I have an appointment booked with the Bishop after Church on Sunday but there is no way I am going through another hour and a half of what I have been through already.

Well, today's Monday, how'd it go? From your statement that "there's no way I am going to go through another hour and a half..." I'm assuming you were considering cancelling? I hope not, because you and your bishop have a lot to talk about. Forget about December 3 and focus on your relationship with your bishop at this point in time. If you harbor the kind of anger you're demonstrating on this board toward your bishop you're not ready for the temple. You guys need to talk...

[Vort]

I informed the Bishop at the beginning of September that I wanted to take my Endowments on 3rd December. It takes a few weeks to get an appointment with our Bishop so thought I would give him advance notice.

He put me off with excuse after excuse. I started the Temple Prep Class late so can only have 6 and not the 7.

Have had two one and a half hour meetings with him but he is still not forthcoming with a Temple Recommend Interview date. He reprimanded me for choosing a date for my Endowment.

Then started accusing me that a member left the church because of me - I had no idea what was going on and it most certainly had nothing whatsoever to do with me.

I had a Limited Use Temple Recommend Interview on 25th October with the 1st Councillor.

I am really fed up that he seems to be stalling on doing the interview.

Have sent a letter to the Stake President but am not sure what, if anything, he can do to help me.

Any advice would be most helpful please

My advice is that your attitude is all wrong, and you need to change it.

It seems that you view the endowment as an entitlement and your bishop as an obstruction. You are mistaken on both counts. The endowment is exactly as the name indicates, a gift, not an entitlement; and your bishop is your facilitator in preparing to receive that gift, not a roadblock to be overcome.

I suggest you completely reconsider your attitude, go back to your bishop with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and ask him to help you prepare to receive that sacred endowment in whatever way he feels is needed for you to prepare. Then do as he says.

[Guest]

Jezebel, I got a story for you.

There was once a sickly man of small stature whose only desire is to please God. So he asked God what he must do to attend the temple and gain celestial glory. And God said, "I want you to push this rock.".

So, the man woke up early the next day, went to the field and pushed the rock. And the rock didn't budge. Sunset came and the rock remained where it is. He thought, that's why God asked me to push the rock because my faith is very strong. I know if I just follow God, I can move this heavy rock!

So the next day he wakes up early again and started to push on the rock. And still the rock didn't budge. But his faith is strong, so he went to the field day after day pushing the rock.

After a week of pushing, he is starting to get really frustrated. He prayed to God everyday asking Him why he has to push the rock when it seems like his strength is not enough. God's reply to his every prayer was for him to continue to push the rock.

And because he is a man of great faith, he continues to wake up everyday to push the rock. A year goes by and still he was not able to move the rock. His faith is starting to falter. This is so stupid. The rock can't be moved. There is no point in me pushing on this stupid rock. But God continues to tell him to push the rock.

He perseveres even if it is starting to make no sense. He prays for confirmation daily to make sure God really wants him to push on the rock and God continues to tell him to push the rock. And five years pass by. Finally, he is broken and he says to himself - I can be out there with a temple recommend, attending the temple, baptizing my ancestors, performing endowments yet I'm stuck here pushing on a rock that will not budge! Why is God doing this to me? I am a better man than this! I am not pushing on this stupid rock. I am going to the temple! And that day, he did not go to the field to push the rock.

God then asks the man, "Why did you stop pushing the rock?" And the man says, it's stupid why I have to push an immovable rock when all I want to do is go to the temple! And God said, "My child, look at your arms, it is strong and full of muscle. Look at your legs, it is sinewy and thick as tree trunks. Look at your abdomen, it is hard and well-balanced. Look at you. You are brimming of good health. All because you followed my counsel and pushed the rock. I did not ask you to move the rock. I just merely asked you to push it. Now step aside and I'll move the rock and you can attend the temple."

Okay Jezebel, the moral of the story may have been lost on you. But, plainly, my understanding of the situation as you have related it is that - God asked us to go the bishop for a temple recommend. There is a reason for that. We are asked to sustain our ward leaders and raise our hands when there is a reason that we cannot. My impression of your situation is that you are not in a position to sustain your bishop as you have yet to gain appreciation for that work. Therefore, God may be teaching you a lesson in working through challenges in sustaining your bishop before you can be ready for more teachings at the temple. Because, if you are failing at that one precept, you might not be ready for more precepts.

Remember, line upon line....

It really doesn't matter who is wrong and who is right in your situation. What matters is how you rise up to that challenge. If you meet that challenge with righteous pride then it might be time to take stock of yourself and learn peace in humility and kindness. This won't be the last church authority you're going to have challenges with. The temple has a lot of "wierd" stuff that goes on there. You might not know how to meet that challenge unless you learn how to deal with the small things first...

[ghostbuster]

Does any of you know if others persecute others in the church for helping people with Paranormal problems? I do Paranormal Investigations to help others understand scientifically and spiritually what is going on. In severe cases of the demonic we rid these things and bring them to Christ. The main question, what can I do about this persecution from my Bishop. I scared him to death talking to him after my babtism about the demonic attacks I have had and was just wanting understanding and help. I know now not to talk to him about such issues. Now he will not allow me to use the Priesthood and go to the Temple. Does "ANYONE" know what I can do???

[ChooseTheSun]

Does any of you know if others persecute others in the church for helping people with Paranormal problems? I do Paranormal Investigations to help others understand scientifically and spiritually what is going on. In severe cases of the demonic we rid these things and bring them to Christ. The main question, what can I do about this persecution from my Bishop. I scared him to death talking to him after my babtism about the demonic attacks I have had and was just wanting understanding and help. I know now not to talk to him about such issues. Now he will not allow me to use the Priesthood and go to the Temple. Does "ANYONE" know what I can do???

I've never heard of paranormal investigations in the church, but I'm pretty new myself. If your Bishop was scared after talking with you about demons and attacks, maybe you came across as bizarre or psychotic? I don't mean to sound critical, but that's my first thought, especially if you expressed interest in paranormally investigating other members. The messages above give great advice about distinguishing perceived persecution from legitimate Bishop authority. Maybe scanning through them could help. Good luck...

[ghostbuster]

No, I dont do paranormal investigations on people of the church. Thats nuts unless they do need help and they ask for my help. Sorry, I had to laugh about that one. And no, Im not phycotic or mentally disturbed. These things TRUELY exist. God wont allow everyone to see these things, it could totally freak them out. The Father gave gifts to use not abuse. I was just hoping to get some answers. I know its not my time yet. I have a lot of work to do and the really bad stuff is just begining. The paranormal investigators that are true to the gospel and helping other wont advertize or talk about this stuff at all in the church. It freaks people out to much even when one of the apostles spoke of them in Priesthood session. Its about time they are speaking up on these things.

[Mamas_Girl]

In severe cases of the demonic we rid these things and bring them to Christ. The main question, what can I do about this persecution from my Bishop.

Wow, personally I wouldn't mess with anything that's demonic without the Melchizedek Priesthood. Now granted I don't believe in ghosts, but then I also don't disbelieve in ghosts, I've just not had enough experiences one way or the other to truly know. I've always wanted to experience a ghost, and when we travel we stay at places over 100 years old with a history of hauntings, but nothing ever happens.

The closest I've come is, I think it's called "sleep paralysis," but that's a temporary thing where a person's still asleep but has the sensation of being awake. Most everyone experiences it from time to time throughout their life, and it is not paranormal.

What kind of persecution are you getting from your bishop? It sounds like you just scared him. I know that I've been told by a couple of branch presidents/bishops that we shouldn't delve into the occult, including things of a paranormal nature. That *if* these things are real, not saying that they are but if... then we need to bring in the Melchizedek Priesthood.

[ghostbuster]

The Melchizedek Priesthood is not the problem. Its dealing with the bishop. I deal with these human spirits and every now and then we come across the demonic. Trust me, you do not want to see them. If you dont believe in ghost's then you dont believe the teachings of Christ, thats my personal opinion. Its stated over and over in the scriptures. Spirits wont come to those that dont believe that they do not exist. It would be a total waist of their time. Some want to be heard and some want help. There is a massive amount of reasons for them to reach out to the living. And by the way, I have absolutly nothing to do with the occult, witchcraft or other crazy things like that. That only allows a doorway for these demons to enter.

[Dravin]

*Finishes cleaning the thread up a bit*

Guys the topic isn't demonic influences.

[ghostbuster]

thats right, the issue is bishops

[Vort]

Or those who do not care to accept a bishop's inspiration.

[sister_in_faith]

I'm sure that the church has reasons for doing things the way they do, but I kind of feel like asking young women to wait until they are preparing for marriage to get their TR is unfair. I know that, for me, getting my endowment was a big deal. It was a time for me to focus on myself, and MY progression in the gospel. The whole experience was very heavy. I CANNOT imagine having that tangled up with a wedding.

I mean, there are a lot of young women who do their endowment on the same day or week as their wedding! If that was me, I would be so focused on the upcoming wedding, I wouldn't be able to devote as much energy to the endowment as it deserves.

The other problem is that there are a lot of young women who may NOT be ready for their endowment, but because they are getting married, go thru with it anyway. A friend of mine was getting endowed a week before her wedding. When she got to the temple she realized that she didn't WANT to get endowed, but because she didn't want to ruin the wedding she did it anyway.

I think that the endowment is important enough that it should be something that woman's full attention is given to!

I may be wrong... I am interested if anyone else feels this way, or wishes that they had been able to do their endowment a year or so before their wedding?

[ghostbuster]

Or those who do not care to accept a bishop's inspiration.

Its definatly not their inspiration, its persecution

[annewandering]

Some tests are not of the people we assume are being tested.

[ghostbuster]

As well as being right where I belong. The Father gave me understanding what is going on but it stills burns my butt what the Bishop did. I see something leave him that day in his office when I was basically getting shot down. I will not say what it was but God answered me in a sense and also comforted me after that with certain scripture coming at me from everywhere. It still hurts though. Even when Im following what the Father has put in front of me. I could have said no to Him but I chose His path He wanted me to take.

[Anon16]

As well as being right where I belong. The Father gave me understanding what is going on but it stills burns my butt what the Bishop did. I see something leave him that day in his office when I was basically getting shot down. I will not say what it was but God answered me in a sense and also comforted me after that with certain scripture coming at me from everywhere. It still hurts though. Even when Im following what the Father has put in front of me. I could have said no to Him but I chose His path He wanted me to take.

Ghostbuster, my dad has had experiences similar to yours, only with two bishops and a stake president. It is sad when that kind of thing happens, but it is good to remember that Bishops are human, and they do make mistakes. Keep that in mind, and go on. He wrote a short book about his experience and our current bishop(who isn't quite as bad) told him he couldn't publish it or if he did there would be a church court. So there you go.

[annewandering]

Ghostbuster, my dad has had experiences similar to yours, only with two bishops and a stake president. It is sad when that kind of thing happens, but it is good to remember that Bishops are human, and they do make mistakes. Keep that in mind, and go on. He wrote a short book about his experience and our current bishop(who isn't quite as bad) told him he couldn't publish it or if he did there would be a church court. So there you go.

Why? Was it an attack on the church?

[Anon16]

No actually, the reason was because it wasn't positive about leaders. The church(and he called to check) wants a positive light shown on leaders...

[Vort]

Its definatly not their inspiration, its persecution

And how would you know this?

[beefche]

Thread closed.