Mahone Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I'll take the word of attorney and good guy Mike Papantonio over others.A radio host, you trust above all? Interesting. Their ultimate aim is to attract listeners, and phrases like "tax avoidance", "disadvantage to US citizens" and "offshore bank accounts" tend to get people listening, and implies fraud, even if it isn't necessarily the case.There are plenty of legitimate reasons for locating money offshore. While it may stop money getting to the US tax office that would get there if the money was located in the US, have you considered whether the US tax office has a moral right (let alone legal right) to that money? Not all tax avoidance is immoral. Edited January 21, 2012 by Mahone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 There are plenty of legitimate reasons for locating money offshore. While it may stop money getting to the US tax office that would get there if the money was located in the US, have you considered whether the US tax office has a moral right (let alone legal right) to that money? Not all tax avoidance is immoral. Legal tax avoidance is OK. But this holding money out of the country is bad, bad, bad and the laws need to be changed. There are plenty of reasons to locate money offshore? All those reasons are bad and bad for the U.S.A. Instead of taking down dictators that were once on the C.I.A. payroll we should send the Marines into the Cayman Islands, take all the records we can find, and then prosecute all the Americans who have money down there. Plus put the hurt to the Cayman Islands and hurt them so bad they get out of the corrupt business of holding money for sneaky people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Dang and there really is an issue with the tax 'avoidance'. Is it right to avoid taxes by moving them out of country? I can understand a person doing it but it just seems wrong.But if/when it comes back to the country, it gets taxed.Let's look at this another way:Is it right to avoid taxes by moving [the money being taxed] out of the present and into a future year? Because that's what you do with Roth IRAs, 401(k)s, and a number of other retirement plans that are widely acknowledged to be not only ethical, but in the public interest.Really, that's all that Cayman Islands account holders are doing: deferring their taxes on specific funds until such time as those funds are repatriated. If the funds are never repatriated, it's most likely because the holders have chosen to leave the United States permanently and spend their money. And if our national policies are driving the wealthy out, it may be time for some serious introspection.Of course it is all related back to whether loopholes are a good thing or just a way of getting out of paying honest taxes.Sure; but "honest taxes" is a loaded phrase in a government that increasingly views taxation more as a way to reward "good" behavior, punish "bad" behavior and generally reinvent society; than as a way of providing sufficient revenue to balance its own budget.I'll take the word of attorney and good guy Mike Papantonio over others.I'm an attorney. I'd like to think I'm also a decent guy. But if you don't want to trust me, maybe you'd like to trust a law professor who studies the tax code for its own sake, rather than for the sake of finding new ways to bludgeon those who commit the unpardonable sin of disagreeing with him?Oh, and the money held by wealthy Americans in the Cayman Islands--in fact, --likely wouldn't begin to fund your military adventurism. But your willingness to see others die to indulge the collective envy of the American left, tells me a lot.The desire to make other people miserable like unto yourself, is a heckuva thing to start a war for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Legal tax avoidance is OK. But this holding money out of the country is bad, bad, bad and the laws need to be changed. There are plenty of reasons to locate money offshore? All those reasons are bad and bad for the U.S.A. Instead of taking down dictators that were once on the C.I.A. payroll we should send the Marines into the Cayman Islands, take all the records we can find, and then prosecute all the Americans who have money down there. Plus put the hurt to the Cayman Islands and hurt them so bad they get out of the corrupt business of holding money for sneaky people.Whoa. Here I thought extremist Liberals saw themselves as peaceniks. But you have advocated starting wars with two nations now that seem to want to have some sort of good relations with us. Now I'm starting to see you guys reveals yourselves as warmongers, declaring war on everyone you can. Maybe it's time to remind ourselves what letter was beside the name of the President at the time we decided to get fully engulfed in Viet Nam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 You guys? Putting money in Cayman Island banks is legal. Why would we punish people for doing whats legal? It would make more sense to take a look at why they are moving money there and see what can be done to keep the money here in a way that benefits both the owner of the money and our country. NOT by bribery of lower taxes but perhaps other incentives such as rewards for creating long term jobs here. Getting everyone involved in solving the economic situation works a lot better than force and/or war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 The Cayman Islands has a reputation for money laundering and other criminal activities within banking circles.Transactions Involving The Cayman IslandsThat doesn't mean that all activities in the Cayman Islands are illegal... but it is a "red flag" for US-based financial institutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I get tired of the resentment towards rich people, as if they are expected to treat their money like it's burning a hole in their pocket. They didn't become rich in order to pay as many taxes as possible. It's their right to maximize what they keep and decide where it goes. If you don't like tax loopholes, write your representatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colirio Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I get tired of not having enough money to have an opinion about this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahone Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Legal tax avoidance is OK. But this holding money out of the country is bad, bad, bad and the laws need to be changed. There are plenty of reasons to locate money offshore? All those reasons are bad and bad for the U.S.A. You seem unable to differentiate between "wrong" and "bad for the USA". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just for the record - I hope to someday be rich enough to make good use of a legal, above board, ethical bank account in the Cayman Islands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I wrote it and regretfully, I'm not sure I even understand it.No, that is beautiful. You should run for office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ok, so in the interest of advancing the field of mathematical equations, here is a brief summary of Hoosier Guy's first 2 laws. War for oil = bad. War for taxes = good. As a socialist I'm disgusted by the hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saldrin Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Pam 2012! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'd like to make enough money so people will hate me. Oh wait..I'm a head moderator. "nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ok, so in the interest of advancing the field of mathematical equations, here is a brief summary of Hoosier Guy's first 2 laws.War for oil = bad.War for taxes = good.As a socialist I'm disgusted by the hypocrisy. War for the good causes = good. War for the bad causes = bad. Just think, this country had a revolution simply because some businessmen did not want to pay a TAX to the king in England. The south went to war to keep their slave workers. Can't we have a war for the good causes? Keeping American made money here in the U.S.? I've been creating videos to put on youtube trying to get people to unite. I was doing research on the towns in south western Indiana and discovered one plastic company is owned by a Saudi Arabian company. There's a factory about six minutes away from me and they were just bought out by people in the middle east, I do believe Saudi Arabia. And then there is the factory seven minutes away from me and they fired many of their long time workers so they would not have pay their pensions and replaced them with low paying temp workers. If I were Dr. Frankenstein I would create the perfect beast - a mix between Jimmy Hoffa and Curtis Lemay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 War for the good causes = good. War for the bad causes = bad. Just think, this country had a revolution simply because some businessmen did not want to pay a TAX to the king in England. The south went to war to keep their slave workers. Can't we have a war for the good causes? Keeping American made money here in the U.S.? I've been creating videos to put on youtube trying to get people to unite. I was doing research on the towns in south western Indiana and discovered one plastic company is owned by a Saudi Arabian company. There's a factory about six minutes away from me and they were just bought out by people in the middle east, I do believe Saudi Arabia. And then there is the factory seven minutes away from me and they fired many of their long time workers so they would not have pay their pensions and replaced them with low paying temp workers. If I were Dr. Frankenstein I would create the perfect beast - a mix between Jimmy Hoffa and Curtis Lemay. We're supposed to start a war with the Cayman Islands because they allow anyone to have a bank account there? That doesn't sound like a good cause to me and certainly not worth anyone dying over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) War for the good causes = good. War for the bad causes = bad. Just think, this country had a revolution simply because some businessmen did not want to pay a TAX to the king in England. I think that the struggle to gain your own sovereignty is not quite the same thing as invading another country to confiscate money for taxes. The south went to war to keep their slave workers. You want to go to war to take money. Can't we have a war for the good causes?Why are you so keen on starting wars? Wars should be avoided at all costs, especially when they involve unprovoked attacks on other countries. Keeping American made money here in the U.S.? Is worth a war that wil lend up costing far higher? I've been creating videos to put on youtube trying to get people to unite. I was doing research on the towns in south western Indiana and discovered one plastic company is owned by a Saudi Arabian company. There's a factory about six minutes away from me and they were just bought out by people in the middle east, I do believe Saudi Arabia. There are USA owned businesses the world over. The Israeli factory my dad worked in was sold to Rumania. Nobody went to war over it. And then there is the factory seven minutes away from me and they fired many of their long time workers so they would not have pay their pensions and replaced them with low paying temp workers. It has happened to me, I'm still a pacifist. If I were Dr. Frankenstein I would create the perfect beast - a mix between Jimmy Hoffa and Curtis Lemay.Are you sure it isn't a rebranded Buck Turgidson? Edited January 22, 2012 by volgadon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I wanted to thank you, HoosierGuy, for being so open about what you are willing to go to war and kill people over. Folks from your political persuasion are usually very resistant to admit what it is that they're actually willing to end other people's lives over. I'll be using this thread and your words in my future discussions with other such folk. It's important to have an accurate picture of what folks believe. I believe you've given me a little insight. Because from what I can tell, few socialists are as pacifist and slow to war as Volgadon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 arggggggg no. War is evil. War is never started because of the love of fellowman. Wars are started because of greed and a desire for power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 arggggggg no. War is evil. War is never started because of the love of fellowman. Wars are started because of greed and a desire for power.By one side maybe, but it is the responsibility of civil nations and people to stop tyranny and free oppressed people. Good people do not start wars, but they do engage them and hopefully end them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I wanted to thank you, HoosierGuy, for being so open about what you are willing to go to war and kill people over. Folks from your political persuasion are usually very resistant to admit what it is that they're actually willing to end other people's lives over. I'll be using this thread and your words in my future discussions with other such folk.It's important to have an accurate picture of what folks believe. I believe you've given me a little insight. Because from what I can tell, few socialists are as pacifist and slow to war as Volgadon. Is my wanting to send the Marines to the Caymans worse that the U.S. going to war over oil? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 By one side maybe, but it is the responsibility of civil nations and people to stop tyranny and free oppressed people. Good people do not start wars, but they do engage them and hopefully end them.I do not completely disagree with that when there is no other option left. If we hadn't fought WWII or the Civil war or the Revolutionary war we would not be where we are today, most likely. It does no good for us to fight wars to 'free' people who dont want to be freed however. Not every culture wants to be in our form of government. People do better when they make the decisions themselves and chose their own way. Not to say we should not support them when they decide to change their leadership. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is my wanting to send the Marines to the Caymans worse that the U.S. going to war over oil? Nope.Two wrongs dont make a right. If you want things changed in the Caymans run for office and change them from our side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is my wanting to send the Marines to the Caymans worse that the U.S. going to war over oil? Nope.Never said it was worse, but doing either is wicked. In your case it is also hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Why don't we just start wars with non-specific people who commit adultery? Adultery is bad, therefore blowing them up would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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