Lying to Get to the Temple

[IBelieveInAngels]

I'm having a moral dilemma. I have a girlfriend who is going to be investigating the church. We want to marry one day and she is willing to join the church then after the one year waiting period is up, lie about actively supporting homosexuality yet getting a temple recommend one of the questions that is asked is "Do you actively support anything contrary to the Church?" and her answer is that "God will forgive her" if she lies to get a temple recomend using James 1:9: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Anyways, I live in Canada where the homosexuality thing is moot anyways 'cause it's legal. I have bipolar and am depressed and confused about all this and the feeling are AMPLIFIED because of my bipolar. I love her dearly but she said don't try and stop her. I want to marry her and it to be honest. I support homosexuality (but that's a whole other matter.) I know I won't get into the temple because of this but I don't care. I don't want to and will not lie. Anyways could someone help me please?? What do I do??

[NeuroTypical]

You might want to think for a moment - if she's willing to lie to her bishop to get what she wants, who else is she willing to lie to, in order to get what she wants?

[trubludru]

My opinion, lying to get into the Temple is not a good thing and I would advise you and your girlfriend to not do so. I don't fully understand the situation from the details given, but it sounds like you have already decided you don't want to lie in order to get into the temple. It also sounds like you are feeling very confused and are mixing issues together of your feelings for your girlfriend, your decision about lying, her decision about lying, and about marrying her in the temple.

The first question I ask is (trying to set aside your purely emotional response of liking you girlfriend) do you really want to be with someone who feels perfectly justified in lying about something like this? You have to ask yourself, if she is willing to lie about this, what else will she lie about? Second, it sounds like she is joining the church mainly because you want her to, does she have or is she gaining a testimony of the truth or is she just going along because that is what you want? If she is just going along with taking the discussions and saying she will get baptized and eventually getting married in the temple without gaining a testimony it is pretty much setting yourself up for disaster.

It can be hard to know what to do sometimes, but again it sounds like you know it isn't right to lie to get a temple recommend even if you may not have a strong testimony of the gospel principal involved (supporting homosexuality). I suspect you will only end up feeling more guilty after the fact if you go along with the lie because you know intentionally lying is wrong. God does forgive us as we repent, but true repentenance involves godly sorrow and remorse for the sin, would your girlfriend actually feel bad about lying? While you may be in love with your girlfriend, she may not be a good choice to get married to.

Try and take a step back and see your situation as a someone else would. If you had a friend and he was in this situation would you want to him to go along with a girlfriend who is lying about something very important, both the ordinances of the temple and marriage? Personally I would say no and think very carefully about the sort of woman you want to be with and if your girlfriend is that type of person.

[MarginOfError]

I'm curious about why you feel the need to lie.

My situation might be a little bit different, but while I understand that homosexual behavior runs contrary to the laws of God, I have nothing against legalized same sex marriage. If it were up for a vote, I couldn't tell you if I would vote for or against it. I might just abstain from voting because I can't get myself worked up one way or the other. And if my bishop or stake president were to ask me about my opinion, I'd tell them candidly just what I told you. I don't think either of them would hesitate to grant be concerned with my feelings on the matter--in fact, I think my bishop would be surprised if I didn't feel the way I do.

[Jennarator]

I'm with Loudmout on this. Liers lie. I wouldn't trust her. She might say she would only do it once, but you will never really know that.

(Please understand this comes from things that happened in my life and needs to be taken at face value.)

Also to lie to go to the temple, that seems like the worst kind of lie. Sad that she would od this.

[annewandering]

Why would anyone even want to go to the temple if they dont believe in any of it? And why would you want to go to the temple with them? Its pointless. There is no binding eternal marriage covenant of only God is making it. It takes three people, including God.

[MarginOfError]

Why would anyone even want to go to the temple if they dont believe in any of it? And why would you want to go to the temple with them? Its pointless. There is no binding eternal marriage covenant of only God is making it. It takes three people, including God.

I don't think that 'actively supporting homosexuality' (by which I'm assuming he means same sex marriage) is the same thing as 'not believing any of it.'

[Backroads]

My question is what is meant by "actively supporting homosexuality". THat's kind of a grey area. Is she in favor of gay rights but doesn't really do anything about it or is she out there protesting?

[RMGuy]

There are a lot of individuals that are members of the church that have homosexual friends/family and love, support, and sustain them. I am sure that there are members of the church that have supported gay marriage either financially, or with their time.

I personally don't see that as a conflict. There may be others that do. In my mind it is similar to the tithing concept....you get to determine what constitutes a full tithe when you answer the question. If I pay on the net, and say yes I am a full tithe payer did I lie? If you believe we should pay on the gross, did I lie? I think you can apply similar principles here.

The question that she is probably concerned with is , "Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? " --If we answer that question very strictly then the answer for all of us is yes. If you associate with someone that drinks that is contrary to the accepted teachings of the Church. Christ himself would answer yes to this question.

To my mind this questions has always centered more around the concept of are you trying to undermine the church. For a bit of history it was added to the recommend questions with regards to break-away polygamous sects.

-RM

[Juan_P]

......

lie about actively supporting homosexuality yet getting a temple recommend one of the questions that is asked is "Do you actively support anything contrary to the Church?" and her answer is that "God will forgive her" if she lies to get a temple recome..

Anyways, I live in Canada where the homosexuality thing is moot anyways 'cause it's legal....

I support homosexuality (but that's a whole other matter.) I know I won't get into the temple because of this but I don't care. I don't want to and will not lie. Anyways could someone help me please?? What do I do??

You won't be asked the question that way. The question in question (npi) refers to supporting apostate groups one finds mostly in the Utah/NM/Idaho areas which still practise polygamy or blood atonement , other apostate doctrines.

Plus you can actually be a supporter of SSM and still have a recommend as long as your support remains a political issue and you don't preach about it in church as doctrinal or as 'God's doctrine".

[annewandering]

I don't think that 'actively supporting homosexuality' (by which I'm assuming he means same sex marriage) is the same thing as 'not believing any of it.'

Neither do I. I was referring more to the girlfriend but it would be applicable to him as well if he doesnt believe.

[Shelly200]

I'm not exactly sure how it is in the LDS church, but in the Catholic Church in order to be absolved of your sins (even venial sins that do not need to be confessed to a priest), you must have true contrition. If a person sits down and thinks, "I hate my mom. I want to kill my mom. I know it's wrong, but I just don't care. I know it is a sin. But I don't care. I'll shoot her, and just confess it later, no big deal." Then that person will not be forgiven for his sin of murder, because he did not have true contrition about it afterwards... instead he just used God's mercy as an excuse to do what he wanted.

If your girlfriend purposely lies to get into a temple with the feelings of "it doesn't matter, I'll just confess it later" then that's not true contrition, and her confession would be invalid. You must have true repentance in order to be forgiven of your sins, and it doesn't sound as if your girlfriend has that.

[Vort]

I'm not exactly sure how it is in the LDS church, but in the Catholic Church in order to be absolved of your sins (even venial sins that do not need to be confessed to a priest), you must have true contrition. If a person sits down and thinks, "I hate my mom. I want to kill my mom. I know it's wrong, but I just don't care. I know it is a sin. But I don't care. I'll shoot her, and just confess it later, no big deal." Then that person will not be forgiven for his sin of murder, because he did not have true contrition about it afterwards... instead he just used God's mercy as an excuse to do what he wanted.

If your girlfriend purposely lies to get into a temple with the feelings of "it doesn't matter, I'll just confess it later" then that's not true contrition, and her confession would be invalid. You must have true repentance in order to be forgiven of your sins, and it doesn't sound as if your girlfriend has that.

Though the LDS doctrine is somewhat different from this, the ultimate message is similar: Don't mock God.

[Spartan117]

she is willing to join the church then after the one year waiting period is up, lie about actively supporting homosexuality yet getting a temple recommend one of the questions that is asked is "Do you actively support anything contrary to the Church?" and her answer is that "God will forgive her" if she lies to get a temple recomend

It is wrong to commit ... sin with the thought that you will simply repent later. This attitude is a sin itself, showing irreverence for the Lord and the covenants you make with Him.

Lying to the Lord's anointed to get a temple recommend is also sinful. Lying the whole way into the temple while you know full well that you're unworthy is probably going to land you a church disciplinary council.

I think Juan is 100% right, though.

You won't be asked the question that way. The question in question (npi) refers to supporting apostate groups one finds mostly in the Utah/NM/Idaho areas which still practise polygamy or blood atonement , other apostate doctrines.

Plus you can actually be a supporter of SSM and still have a recommend as long as your support remains a political issue and you don't preach about it in church as doctrinal or as 'God's doctrine".

So hopefully your trip to the temple together wont be something you look back on and regret one day. Trifle not with sacred things.

[Blocky]

Have you ever tried sinning with the thought 'I'll repent later?' Good luck with that. As if repenting isn't hard enough, you just made it 20 times harder.

Why lie to go to the temple? So it'll look to everyone else that you did the right thing, for the 'praise of man?' Or is it because she's just curious to see what's all the hoopla is about. Or perhaps she just doesn't like being told she can't do something. None of these are the reason to go. We go when we're ready and willing to make promises to God, to obey his commandments. That's what covenants are. Promises to God. It's also why we wait to go to the temple until we've been a member for a year and an adult. It's why there are interviews and specific questions, to make sure we're at a place where we're able to make those covenants with our Heavenly Father.

Now, we only have short posts to go on here. I don't know your gf's exact point of view, or yours. You say you 'support homosexuality.' What does that mean exactly? I suggest that if you can't understand how homosexuality is contrary to how we believe God wants us to conduct our lives, specifically as outlines in The Family: A Proclamation to the World, then perhaps you're not ready to enter the temple. This doesn't mean anything other than that. I'm not tying in any political viewpoints with this statement.

[slamjet]

First off, this is a dilemma on a moral and practical level. Loudmouth_Mormon pointed that out.

Second off, this reminds me of Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

And just for good measure, D&C 63:58

"For this is a day of warning, and not a day of many words. For I, the Lord, am not to be mocked in the last days."

Seems like a person to steer clear from if they don't change their tune. Otherwise you run the risk of getting sucked it.

[rameumptom]

The question asked is "Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?"

In this, the issue is not whether one supports homosexual marriage, but whether one encourages sinful behavior. This question ties most directly to polygamy sects in the Western United States, which have been a thorn in the Church's side for over a century now. There are many good LDS temple going members who support gay marriage, but do not engage in it.

The Church does not judge members for such beliefs, but for behaviors. A member can be a homosexual (same sex attraction), be chaste and worthy of a temple recommend.

Now, if your friend is actively promoting sexual relations outside of marriage, that may be another issue, but is something she needs to discuss with her bishop. Why? Because what you may consider "actively involved" may not meet the criteria the bishop has for worthiness. For example, during Prop 8 in California, those members who advocated for gay marriage did not lose their temple recommends, as long as they did not attack the Church in any specific way. Promoting a cause is different than attacking the church.

[NadiaStar]

I'm having a moral dilemma. I have a girlfriend who is going to be investigating the church. We want to marry one day and she is willing to join the church then after the one year waiting period is up, lie about actively supporting homosexuality yet getting a temple recommend one of the questions that is asked is "Do you actively support anything contrary to the Church?" and her answer is that "God will forgive her" if she lies to get a temple recomend using James 1:9: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Anyways, I live in Canada where the homosexuality thing is moot anyways 'cause it's legal. I have bipolar and am depressed and confused about all this and the feeling are AMPLIFIED because of my bipolar. I love her dearly but she said don't try and stop her. I want to marry her and it to be honest. I support homosexuality (but that's a whole other matter.) I know I won't get into the temple because of this but I don't care. I don't want to and will not lie. Anyways could someone help me please?? What do I do??

Unless you guys are throwing rotten fruit at General Authorities over homosexual rights that probably isn't an issue. I support gay rights to a certain extent and at my last temple interview it wasn't a problem.

The big question here is if you and her are legitimately interested in the temple for the temple's sake.

[DasMarcos]

To the original poster I would have to say that it would be a bad choice to make. I"m no LDS myself but if I were part of this organization or any other organization that does not support same sex marriage or companionship I would just leave the said organization. Your views are obviously not within the realms of this faith, so why stay?

Perhaps this is geared toward your wife more but if you have a view contrary to the faith why lie and make a circus out of the religion? Support and belong to a religion that agrees with your viewpoint, don't tarnish the faith you are trying to serve. I personally am against homosexuals receiving sacrament of Marriage and against homosexuality in general, but that is my own personal view. I want organizations that will stand strong on that view and who will not back down on this pivotal moral dilemma.

God Bless and good luck.