"Revealing Outfit" - seriously?

[Hala401]

For the record (and I realize you were only joking): BYU has no "religious police" or even "standards police". They do have an Honor Code or Standards office (not sure of the official name), but to compare that to the Mutaween is severe hyperbole.

And yes, I was joking. :)

[Guest]

For all we know, the note was written the day before when she was wearing her 80's-Madonna-bustier to school.

[MarginOfError]

For all we know, the note was written the day before when she was wearing her 80's-Madonna-bustier to school.

If that were true, would it matter? Does that make this creep's actions any more appropriate?

[Blackmarch]

You be the judge:

Yahoo! Local Beta News - BYU Student Scolded For Outfit In Secret Note On Valentine?s Day

/facepalm

[Bini]

Yeh, I wouldn't have survived at BYU. I'd be getting notes all the time, and generally speaking, I consider myself a fairly conservative dresser. Then again, I don't do the current trend of leggings underneath skirts, so maybe I'd go unnoticed entirely.

I agree, Anatess. Who knows and what more, who really cares? When I was Mia Maid age, I was sent home from church for wearing spaghetti-straps. Seriously. At the time, I thought really? Now I know it was inappropriate but when it happened, I didn't login to MySpace and make an issue out of it. Yes, MySpace, before FB and Tweeters existed! Lol.

[Guest]

If that were true, would it matter? Does that make this creep's actions any more appropriate?

Uhm, yes. If I see my classmate wearing a bustier to BYU, I won't bother with a note, I'll go give her my jacket. A bustier to a concert - no big deal.

Edited February 21, 2012 by anatess

[MarginOfError]

Yeh, I wouldn't have survived at BYU. I'd be getting notes all the time, and generally speaking, I consider myself a fairly conservative dresser. Then again, I don't do the current trend of leggings underneath skirts, so maybe I'd go unnoticed entirely.

I agree, Anatess. Who knows and what more, who really cares? When I was Mia Maid age, I was sent home from church for wearing spaghetti-straps. Seriously. At the time, I thought really? Now I know it was inappropriate but when it happened, I didn't login to MySpace and make an issue out of it. Yes, MySpace, before FB and Tweeters existed! Lol.

The difference between your situation, Bini, and this woman's situation is, I presume, you know who sent you home. And if you didn't, you at least could have gone to leadership to complain and they could have found out.

When a coward leaves an anonymous note and runs, there's no recourse against his actions but to take it to a public sphere.

[Guest]

Yeh, I wouldn't have survived at BYU. I'd be getting notes all the time, and generally speaking, I consider myself a fairly conservative dresser. Then again, I don't do the current trend of leggings underneath skirts, so maybe I'd go unnoticed entirely.

I agree, Anatess. Who knows and what more, who really cares? When I was Mia Maid age, I was sent home from church for wearing spaghetti-straps. Seriously. At the time, I thought really? Now I know it was inappropriate but when it happened, I didn't login to MySpace and make an issue out of it. Yes, MySpace, before FB and Tweeters existed! Lol.

When I was around 10 years old, I went in line for Communion at the Catholic Church and the priest didn't give it to me because I was wearing spaghetti straps. It was embarassing because I stood there in the front of the line waiting for the priest to hand me the white wafer and he tapped my shoulder and stood there with the wafer held up waiting for me to get out of line... (brings to mind the Seinfeld episode - No Soup For You! LOL!) They still do that in the Philippines. In America, they're a lot more lenient.

[Guest]

The difference between your situation, Bini, and this woman's situation is, I presume, you know who sent you home. And if you didn't, you at least could have gone to leadership to complain and they could have found out.

When a coward leaves an anonymous note and runs, there's no recourse against his actions but to take it to a public sphere.

Really? No recourse against his actions? Like... it was so important that it needed a public recourse?

[MarginOfError]

Really? No recourse against his actions? Like... it was so important that it needed a public recourse?

Would you rather women just took sexual harassment from anonymous jerks?

[pam]

Looks like the girl gets the last laugh.

BYU student chided for outfit becomes model for modest clothing company | ksl.com

[Bini]

I remember that episode!!!

[Hala401]

Uhm, yes. If I see my classmate wearing a bustier to BYU, I won't bother with a note, I'll go give her my jacket. A bustier to a concert - no big deal.

This is so funny! :) When I was much younger, um well I can't really say how much I wanted to be like totally wild, and by the mercy of Heavenly Father, I somehow survived the times when I wore only ounces of clothes. I mean I wanted to please God, but when a party came round, I really tried to be like all wanton and desirable. At one party, I knew there were drugs around, and asked someone for some LSD, but the two guys I was trying to impress looked at each other and shook their heads. "No, you are not getting any LSD". They and their dates took me out for breakfast right after. Apparently they thought I was too much the "church lady".

Wasn't that long after the I converted to Islam and all thought of those things was smothered under an abaya and hijab.

I imagine that this young lady will get through these times and hopefully she will continue to encounter people who are good and protective. Deep down, she has to realise, doncha think?

[LittleWyvern]

There was an article about this in today's Daily Universe, the BYU newspaper. The article is here (scroll down to page 7). The staff of the newspaper interviewed Brittany, and we do learn a couple new things about this:

- Brittany never intended to go public with the story: she just posted it on Twitter and Facebook. Facebook has a lot of privacy controls, but Twitter is open and public by nature, and the platform makes it easy to share things others have posted. Gossip spreads very quickly on Twitter, and Twitter encourages this (via the "trending" moniker).

- Despite not intending the story to go public, Brittany appreciates the fact that people are talking about the issue of this kind of Honor Code policing. She made it very clear that it was never her intention to make this something bad about BYU or the Church.

- BYU has chosen (perhaps wisely) not to comment on the matter, including whether or not the outfit was in line with the Honor Code. So, perhaps we'll never know the answer to that question.

[Just_A_Guy]

OK, dumb question here:

I've always associated sexual harassment with either pressuring a victim for sexual favors, or openly mocking a person for sex-related traits that are beyond the victim's control.

When did it become sexual harassment for Person A (male or female) to point out to Person B (male or female) that Person B's attire is unprofessional and/or borderline trashy?

Not justifying this clown's behavior here; but I'm a little uncomfortable with taking general churlish behavior and re-defining it as sexual harassment.

[Hala401]

OK, dumb question here:

I've always associated sexual harassment with either pressuring a victim for sexual favors, or openly mocking a person for sex-related traits that are beyond the victim's control.

When did it become sexual harassment for Person A (male or female) to point out to Person B (male or female) that Person B's attire is unprofessional and/or borderline trashy?

Not justifying this clown's behavior here; but I'm a little uncomfortable with taking general churlish behavior and re-defining it as sexual harassment.

I never saw it as harassment, and I think that those who do are going a bit over the top. This whole matter is being blown out of proportion, and as one commentator mentioned, it is such a non issue that BYU is not commenting on it. I am sure that we all will be laughing about it in the years to come.

[prisonchaplain]

OK, dumb question here:

I've always associated sexual harassment with either pressuring a victim for sexual favors, or openly mocking a person for sex-related traits that are beyond the victim's control.

When did it become sexual harassment for Person A (male or female) to point out to Person B (male or female) that Person B's attire is unprofessional and/or borderline trashy?

Not justifying this clown's behavior here; but I'm a little uncomfortable with taking general churlish behavior and re-defining it as sexual harassment.

It could be or lead to sexual harrassment if the recipient of the letter believed the author might be stalking her. For a female to receive an anonymous note, from a male, indicating that her clothing was sexually provocative, could definitely be perceived as creepy. If the girl was at all afraid of what he might do, then it could be a mild form of sexual harrassment.

[pam]

OK, dumb question here:

I've always associated sexual harassment with either pressuring a victim for sexual favors, or openly mocking a person for sex-related traits that are beyond the victim's control.

When did it become sexual harassment for Person A (male or female) to point out to Person B (male or female) that Person B's attire is unprofessional and/or borderline trashy?

Not justifying this clown's behavior here; but I'm a little uncomfortable with taking general churlish behavior and re-defining it as sexual harassment.

When I worked for the Navy one of my collateral duties for 2 years was to teach sexual harassment workshops.

Most have the idea that sexual harassment is in fact what you described JAG. But the spectrum of this is so much wider.

Telling off color jokes about the opposite sex, or jokes that demeans a certain gender falls under this. Because of the fact that a comment was made by a male to a female regarding her inappropriate or perceived inappropriate attire can also fall under this. It is giving the perception that person A considers person B trashy based on their attire.

It's one of those really fine line things but one that does certainly fall under the sexual harassment umbrella. It would be considered this even if person A and person B were of the same gender.

[Suzie]

Well...I am Suzie right? So...the first thing I thought was how do we know the story is even real? Not saying it isn't...just adding a possibility.

[pam]

Prove that you are Suzie.

[Suzie]

Prove that you are Suzie.

:lol:

[Just_A_Guy]

Because of the fact that a comment was made by a male to a female regarding her inappropriate or perceived inappropriate attire can also fall under this. It is giving the perception that person A considers person B trashy based on their attire.

It's one of those really fine line things but one that does certainly fall under the sexual harassment umbrella. It would be considered this even if person A and person B were of the same gender.

I guess the fineness of the line--and its apparent one-sided enforcement--is my quibble.

If I show up to work with my necktie loose and my shirt hanging out, and our female receptionist says "JAG, that outfit makes you you look like the town drunk" - how is that OK, but if our situations are reversed I can't say "Receptionist, that outfit makes you look a little trashy"?

[Guest]

Somebody sending a note commenting on a dress being called sexual harassment is about the same as somebody at work complimenting on your dress getting called out for sexual harassment.

Pretty soon everybody will refuse to go to work/school for fear of being charged with sexual harassment because they looked at somebody for more than 2 seconds.

[pam]

I guess the fineness of the line--and its apparent one-sided enforcement--is my quibble.

If I show up to work with my necktie loose and my shirt hanging out, and our female receptionist says "JAG, that outfit makes you you look like the town drunk" - how is that OK, but if our situations are reversed I can't say "Receptionist, that outfit makes you look a little trashy"?

Actually JAG it works both ways. But more likely than not..it's always male against female. Or at least that's what the public in general thinks. Sad really. I've heard some pretty bad things come out of a female's mouth that made me embarassed for my gender.

[Bini]

You could say that sexual harassment is in the eye of the beholder. A man walks into an elevator and says to two women, "Looking fine today, ladies." One woman grins and is obviously flattered. The other is completely turned off and offended.