Near Beer, does it technically pass WoW?

[grauchy123]

Someone in this thread mistakenly said that Near Beer only contains 0.05% Alcohol.

Sorry, that's not correct you are off by a factor of 10. Near Beers typically contain 0.5% making just a few Near Beers the same as 1 Regular Beer

Here's a reference on the topic for your reading pleasure:

Low-alcohol beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cwald]

Someone in this thread mistakenly said that Near Beer only contains 0.05% Alcohol.

Sorry, that's not correct you are off by a factor of 10. Near Beers typically contain 0.5% making just a few Near Beers the same as 1 Regular Beer

Here's a reference on the topic for your reading pleasure:

Low-alcohol beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oops. You are correct about the .5%, but my point is still valid. You would have to drink a lot of near beer to get the equivalent amount of alcohol that equals a couple pints of Oregon beer that it takes to get a buzz. I don't think many folks could do it without getting very sick.

I think it is interesting that the Pharisees keep getting brought up. One side says folks like me are Pharisees for trying to justify sin.

I don't think the Pharisees were about trying to justify sin. I think they were about defining every possible decision in life so AS NOT TO SIN. They came up with just an enormous amount of "should's and should-not's." That is what this thread reminds me of. So, from my perspective, those who want to nit-pick and try to define and make more out of the word of wisdom than needs be are really the ones acting like pharisees. Just my opinion.

Edited February 23, 2012 by cwald

[Carl62]

I don't the Pharisees were about trying to justify sin. I think they were about defining every possible decision in life so AS NOT TO SIN. The came up with just an enormous amount of "should's and should-not's." That is what this thread reminds me of. So, from my perspective, those who want to nit-pick and try to define and make more out of the word of wisdom than needs be are really the ones acting like pharisees. Just my opinion.

You hit the nail on the head right there cwald! This thread also gives me the impression of Pharisaic thinking. Isn't it ironic that the more we strive to think and be Christ-like, the more we do come across looking like Pharisees with all of our do's and don't's, school honor code rules, mission rules, passing the sacrament rules, hair/facial hair rules, passing "righteous" judgement on each other, etc. If it walks like a duck......

[Guest]

All of us - my kids included - order Strawberry Dacquiris when we go out to eat at a restaurant that has it. Virgin, of course.

Okay, I have nothing to add to this thread. LOL.

[grauchy123]

Someone else brought up as a reason to *not* drink near beer is to avoid the appearance of evil.

I don't quite understand that logic because Jesus certainly did not make any attempts to avoid appearance of evil. He was constantly meeting and dining with sinners without a worry about what that might look like.

Avoiding appearance of evil seems to me like pridefulness to me.

[RMGuy]

Someone else brought up as a reason to *not* drink near beer is to avoid the appearance of evil.

I don't quite understand that logic because Jesus certainly did not make any attempts to avoid appearance of evil. He was constantly meeting and dining with sinners without a worry about what that might look like.

Avoiding appearance of evil seems to me like pridefulness to me.

LOL! That is how I answer Temple recommend question #7 everytime. With a resounding yes. I've only had one leader probe deeper and I shared that this is exactly what Christ did too.

-RM

[LittleWyvern]

I think some meta-level thinking could help here: the entire purpose of the Word of Wisdom is to help us keep our bodies healthy so that we can keep our spirits healthy, as well as ensuring we keep our free agency by avoid becoming addicted to things. If all we see in the Word of Wisdom is a long list of "do's" and "don't's," I think we're missing the point. Yes, there are do's and don't's in the Word of Wisdom, but I think they're there to point us toward the spirit of the law.

So, for any drink that isn't mentioned in the Word of Wisdom explicitly, I think the true answer to this question comes from exploring two major concepts:

1) Is how I use this drink harming my physical or spiritual self?

2) Is how I use this drink becoming habit-forming for me?

Note that one of the consequences of this way of thinking is that some things may be against the Word of Wisdom for some people, and may not be for others. I especially like applying the two questions above to energy drinks, but I think they apply universally. So, I think the real answer to the OP's question can only be found by the person drinking whatever the beverage is. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

Edited February 23, 2012 by LittleWyvern
grammar fail :(

[grauchy123]

So, for any drink that isn't mentioned in the Word of Wisdom explicitly

A careful reading of D&C 89:17 shows that Mild Drinks of Barley and other grains are explicitly listed as a "DO".

I tend to agree with my friend that his drinking of Near Beer is ok as per that verse. I just don't understand how to reconcile that with the modern interpretation of "no alcohol".

From what I have gathered in the responses it sounds like it's a personal introspective matter. If one believes they are in compliance then they can honestly get the TR.

[LittleWyvern]

A careful reading of D&C 89:17 shows that Mild Drinks of Barley and other grains are explicitly listed as a "DO".

Yes, I realize there's a bit of a debate on whether or not this "near beer" stuff is explicitly listed but that was beyond the scope of what I was trying to say.

[RMGuy]

LOL, to me near beer is to "drinking" like kissing is to sex. That being said...beer is ucky. It looks like pee, smells like old shoes, and because of the first two I've never been able to force myself to try it.

-RM

[Blackmarch]

I can't imagine anyone would ever drink a six-pack of vanilla extract.

no but lots of hazelnut extract in a hot cup of chocolate tastes pretty darn good. COurse the guy who told me this also had other drug issues at the time... but i know a few drops makes it tasty.

[mnn727]

Interesting how this thread has run. At one point in time I was very rigid in my thinking, everything was black and white. Then through study and prayer I finally figured out that everyone is at different spiritual levels and everyone is a sinner with their favorite sins.

If you ever listened to President Faust speak, he was not worried about his sins of commission (sins he committed) but he was very worried about his sins of omission -- things he should have done but hadn't.

I'm nowhere near his level of spirituality to worried about things I should have done - they are not even on my horizon as sins - yet. SO since we are all at different levels of spirituality then there must be shades of gray as far as sins go.

Who am I to say that drinking a near beer is a sin when I haven't always honored my parents?

Who am I to say cooking with wine is a sin when I haven't always been a cheerful giver?

Who am I to say someone is not following the WoW when I eat fruit out of season and consume meat in the summer?

Come on everyone, lets HELP teach each other to become more Christlike and stop worrying about legalities, we all have enough sins of our own to worry about.

Edited February 23, 2012 by mnn727

[Guest]

I've been dabbling in hydroponics and harvested lettuce out of season in a closet! It's awesome! I got seeds that could last more than a year's supply of lettuce and such and I don't even need a yard to do it!

Okay, still have nothing to contribute to the thread.

[Bini]

I've been dabbling in hydroponics and harvested lettuce out of season in a closet! It's awesome! I got seeds that could last more than a year's supply of lettuce and such and I don't even need a yard to do it!

Okay, still have nothing to contribute to the thread.

Anatess, the season for Filipino mango is upon us! Well, at least it's "in season" here in Utah - finally! I've been waiting for these babies to get imported since.. since.. last season!

PS. I completely agree with mnn727! Amen! I quit drinking and smoking myself in the last few years. Good for me. But sometimes, I find myself pointing fingers at others and gasping when they continue with the habits that I've kicked. Yes, we are all sinners and we don't all pick the same poisons! And yes, some sins are worse off than others but thankfully, we are not judge and jury, leave that to the Lord.

[grauchy123]

I've been dabbling in hydroponics....

Just when your thread contribution was getting exciting you pulled the rug out.

[Magen_Avot]

I don't think the Pharisees were about trying to justify sin. I think they were about defining every possible decision in life so AS NOT TO SIN.

Indeed. The JST Matthew 23:1 & 2 reads: (and this is not directed at anyone, um... except me sometimes)

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, saying, The Scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

All, therefore, whatsoever they bid you observe, they will make you observe and do; for they are ministers of the law, and they make themselves your judges. But do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.

Come on everyone, lets HELP teach each other to become more Christlike and stop worrying about legalities, we all have enough sins of our own to worry about.

You said it well, this is a gospel of love and longsuffering.

We all deserve a break.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Magen_Avot

[Vort]

LOL, to me near beer is to "drinking" like kissing is to sex. That being said...beer is ucky. It looks like pee, smells like old shoes, and because of the first two I've never been able to force myself to try it.

See, RM? We do agree sometimes.

Several months ago, maybe more like a year, I got some non-alcoholic beer to make the crust for my wife's favorite dish, tarte flambée. The guy at Whole Foods assured me that it was the best non-alcoholic beer he had ever tried, and that he would in fact be willing to drink it just for the taste. So when I was making the crust, I tried some of the "beer" and let my children (those who wanted to) take a sip.

Utterly disgusting. Bitter, horrid, tasted what I imagine skunk pee might taste like. Why anyone would willingly pay good money to drink that stuff by the bottle, I cannot imagine.

[Vort]

I'm of two minds about what people have said. On the one hand, I agree that we should worry far less about others' sins and more about our own. The Savior taught that what comes out of a man defiles him, not what goes in. I have always considered Word of Wisdom violations as relatively minor elements in the panoply of sin.

On the other hand, our Church leaders teach and even stress it. It's part of the temple recommend interview. With drugs wreaking such terrible havoc among us, it's often just plain common sense. Moreover, it's so visible. As Section 89 says, it's adapted to the capacity of the weak, even of the weakest who are or can be called Saints. To refuse to comply as if you're making some brave statement is simply prideful rebellion. And that, much more than the alcohol or caffeine content or whatever, is the truly repugnant thing. Anyone who is or can even be called a Saint ought to have the minimal level of self-discipline not to use such products.

So while I don't cotton to those who want to condemn everyone (or even every Mormon) who drinks alcohol or coffee or who smokes a cigarette -- and I certainly feel sympathy for those within the grips of addiction -- I think it's disingenuous to dismiss all such arguments with a wave of the hand by saying, "Hey, it just doesn't matter, it's only beer" or some such thing.

[Guest Godless]

In my (heavily-biased non-LDS) opinion, near-beer is to beer what herbal tea is to tea. It's a crappy substitute that most likely won't put your eternal soul in jeopardy.

[Vort]

In my (heavily-biased non-LDS) opinion, near-beer is to beer what herbal tea is to tea. It's a crappy substitute that most likely won't put your eternal soul in jeopardy.

That's funny. I occasionally drink herbal tea and find it mildly good. I once drank tea -- iced tea, drunk by accident, when I was 19 and working at Godfather's Pizza and thought someone's iced tea was my iced Sprite with a lemon wedge in it (curse those old brownish-green tumblers Godfather's used to use!). I literally thought I had just drunk a great big swig of dirty dishwater, some sick joke someone played on me, until my tannin-addled brain realized what had happened. Really, really disgusting.

[durante_angelo]

I was thinking...

- Is it okay to look at a girl? (casual or because you think she's cute)

- Is it okay to look at a girl in a porn magazine? (even if you just think they're cute)

Then ask yourself why and think about if it's the same situation.

- Is it okay to eat/drink vanilla essence?

- Is it okay to drink vodka/beer/something else?

Then ask yourself why.

Remember, God didn't command us certain things just for fun, it's to protect us and increase our potential. I don't believe that he would command us something unnecessary, and if it's not in the scriptures, think rational. If vanilla essence or something else is not written in the scriptures or in the spoken word, think about if you know it's bad for you and pray if it's not that easy

[Guest DeborahC]

First of all, I'm doing my best to concentrate on my OWN faults and not judge others.

But since you asked, I guess my question would be WHY would a person be drinking "near beer?"

Are they drinking it to wean themselves off alcohol?

Or are they just drinking it to be cool and fit in with their friends?

Or are they trying to justify continuing to drink alcohol by saying, "Well, it's only a WEE bit of alcohol" which to me is a bit like saying to someone with a deadly peanut allergy, "Well there's only ONE peanut in that soup!"

We've been told to abstain from alcohol. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what that means.

To me, the fact that they're even ASKING tells me they may be trying to justify their behavior, which to me is a big red flag saying, "STOP!"

And as far as the amount of alcohol used in a teaspoon of vanilla, one could argue here the point is "INTENT."

The purpose of the alcohol in vanilla is to preserve the spice.

The purpose of the alcohol in "near beer" is to alter your brain waves - or to get you high.

Edited March 7, 2012 by DeborahC

[FunkyTown]

First of all, I'm doing my best to concentrate on my OWN faults and not judge others.

But since you asked, I guess my question would be WHY would a person be drinking "near beer?"

Are they drinking it to wean themselves off alcohol?

Or are they just drinking it to be cool and fit in with their friends?

Or are they trying to justify continuing to drink alcohol by saying, "Well, it's only a WEE bit of alcohol" which to me is a bit like saying to someone with a deadly peanut allergy, "Well there's only ONE peanut in that soup!"

We've been told to abstain from alcohol. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what that means.

To me, the fact that they're even ASKING tells me they may be trying to justify their behavior, which to me is a big red flag saying, "STOP!"

Well, technically there's far less alcohol in near beer than vanilla extract, which I cook with and often make french toast with. I would direct him to his Bishop if he has questions.

More importantly, however, I would point out that while I can't judge him morally for that choice, I can judge his taste. Near beer? Yuck. That's just gross.

[RMGuy]

The purpose of the alcohol in "near beer" is to alter your brain waves - or to get you high.

Umm no. The only reason that there is any alcohol at all in 'near beer' is because it is impossible to extract all of it. Kind of like cooking with alcohol. The purpose of near beer is because some people (don't ask me why) actually like the taste of beer. Hence, they can drink it without 'altering their brain waves'.

-RM

[Guest]

Umm no. The only reason that there is any alcohol at all in 'near beer' is because it is impossible to extract all of it. Kind of like cooking with alcohol. The purpose of near beer is because some people (don't ask me why) actually like the taste of beer. Hence, they can drink it without 'altering their brain waves'.

-RM

And some people can drink an entire bottle of "REAL" beer without 'altering their brain waves'. There's a lot of them who know where the line is when the buzz starts because they prefer to stop before that line.

Now, here's a newsflash - Catholics may drink wine at every Mass... including 8-year-olds receiving their very first communions. And yes, they may have up to 20% alcohol content. And no, they don't do it to 'alter their brain waves'.

Edited March 9, 2012 by anatess