Underage Drinking

[StrawberryFields]

This has become a real problem in Utah but I would think that we are not alone.

http://parentsempowered.org/docs/harms/

[Maureen]

This has become a real problem in Utah but I would think that we are not alone.

I'm always curious as to why some kids and teens find drinking alcohol fascinating. Could it be because it is presented to them as such an extreme taboo and out of limits. When I was growing up we were allowed to have alcohol on special occasions, like Christmas dinner (wine) or on hot summer days (my Mom split a beer between my sister and myself, about 4ozs each). Not once during growing up did I ever have a fascination for drinking alcohol. Alcohol was treated more as an appreciation than as something to be abused. But it was different for my husband's childhood. He grew up Mormon and alcohol was extremely forbidden, therefore for him, more enticing. He consumes more alcohol than I do (he is also twice my size). If it wasn't for me keeping tabs on him, I would guess that he could become an alcoholic.

I personally think it is best to teach children why alcohol should be appreciated and respected, it might avoid this crazy fascination that children attach to it. The more knowledge you have about something, the easier it is to not abuse it, IMO.

M.

[StrawberryFields]

I don't feel that it has to do with only it being off limits. Drugs are also very much abused by teens. Stealing is off limits but that doesn't make one more likely to become a thief does it?

I grew up in a home where my parents drank with their friends every weekend. They told be that if I ever wanted to drink I could drink at home. Drinking gives people an altered state of being. I think that it also gives them a thrill to see if they can do something without getting caught. One of the problems with substance abuse is that one abuse can lead to another.

The research tells us that underage drinking can lead to a drinking problem later in life. I agree with the more information that kids have about their choices the better the decission they will make.

Just recently I learned that constanstant exposure to energy drinks will eat the enamel off of your teeth. Now not only is the caffeine bad (addictive) but the energy drinks will hurt your teeth. Knowledge is power.

[CaptainTux]

I can only speak to my own youth. I never pro actively went after the booze, but if I was at a party where beer was there, I would have a few. Even today I could not tell you why. It was there? I never got wasted, but I knew a few who would pass out. When I hit my 20's, it was a different game. I would go to a bar and drink myself to oblivion and then drive home. I would go to a friends house, drink myself to oblivion, and then pass out on his couch. Not sure why.

[Princess3dward]

I don't know very many people who don't drink.

I even drank a little before I joined the church...

It is really rare to not drink..

It is really rare that your parents don't let you and buy your beers aswell.

[prisonchaplain]

I remember seeing research that individuals from two population groups have a 50% chance of becoming alcoholic, should they begin to drink.

1. Those from religious traditions that prohibit alcohol consumption (something we A/G and LDS agree on).

2. Those who come from households where alcohol is abused.

Another interesting story. In the seminary (graduate school of theology) I attended we were required to sign a promise that we would not consume alcohol so long as we were a student of the school. One of our students was from France, where even Pentecostals were social drinkers. So, he found the restriction quite severe. A year after living here, we asked him what he thought. He said: if I were to minister in the United States I would not drink. The alcohol culture here is terrible. People drink to get drunk so they can do the stupid things they want to do, and then use their drunkenness as an excuse.

For LDS this is easy. Your Scripture says no. For others it might be more difficult. However, imho when Paul says that everything is permissible, but not everything is wise, alcohol in America comes right to mind. :-)

[Dr T]

I read a study about a month ago from SAMHA where the finding was, "People who start drinking at an early age have a higher probability of being alcoholics later in life." Now that is shocking!

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

I read a study about a month ago from SAMHA where the finding was, "People who start drinking at an early age have a higher probability of being alcoholics later in life." Now that is shocking!

Dr. T

I know what you mean! That is what it said in the link above as well.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

This has become a real problem in Utah but I would think that we are not alone.

I'm always curious as to why some kids and teens find drinking alcohol fascinating. Could it be because it is presented to them as such an extreme taboo and out of limits. When I was growing up we were allowed to have alcohol on special occasions, like Christmas dinner (wine) or on hot summer days (my Mom split a beer between my sister and myself, about 4ozs each). Not once during growing up did I ever have a fascination for drinking alcohol. Alcohol was treated more as an appreciation than as something to be abused. But it was different for my husband's childhood. He grew up Mormon and alcohol was extremely forbidden, therefore for him, more enticing. He consumes more alcohol than I do (he is also twice my size). If it wasn't for me keeping tabs on him, I would guess that he could become an alcoholic.

I personally think it is best to teach children why alcohol should be appreciated and respected, it might avoid this crazy fascination that children attach to it. The more knowledge you have about something, the easier it is to not abuse it, IMO.

M.

I tend to agree with you, Maureen. I know there are exceptions with everything, but it seems like a lot of the people I know/have known with drinking problems were the kids who grew up being taught that drinking is horrible, completely off-limits, etc.

Some of my friends with more 'eclectic' parents who had wine with dinner and didn't think it was a big deal for their child to also partake, seem to be the more responsible drinkers - drinking only in special social situations, or 1 - 2 glasses a week.

Just my personal observation.

A funny story that some of you guys may not find so funny...

about once a month or so I will drink a beer or glass of wine. My three yr old is always bugging me to have some bc we usually share everything to eat or drink. I knew he would hate it if he tried it bc beer is definitely an aquired taste. I had him just lick the top of the bottle (no, not a drink... just a taste) and he freaked out spitting and wiping his tongue wtih a napkin. Now when I have one, he says it's 'disgusting' and doesn't give it a second thought.

[StrawberryFields]

A funny story that some of you guys may not find so funny...

about once a month or so I will drink a beer or glass of wine. My three yr old is always bugging me to have some bc we usually share everything to eat or drink. I knew he would hate it if he tried it bc beer is definitely an aquired taste. I had him just lick the top of the bottle (no, not a drink... just a taste) and he freaked out spitting and wiping his tongue wtih a napkin. Now when I have one, he says it's 'disgusting' and doesn't give it a second thought.

Shan I am not upset that you gave your child a sip of beer. Now my question is do you really think this will cause him to never drink? Do you that that sip has cured him in some way? I have seen something similar done with dill pickles only to love them when a child gets older. Things will change for you son as we gets with his peers in his teenage years. The peer pressure to sip will be great.

I don't know very many people who don't drink.

I even drank a little before I joined the church...

It is really rare to not drink..

It is really rare that your parents don't let you and buy your beers aswell.

Des, really? I didn't think that you were from sheltered Utah You are 16 too right?

[StrawberryFields]

I remember seeing research that individuals from two population groups have a 50% chance of becoming alcoholic, should they begin to drink.

1. Those from religious traditions that prohibit alcohol consumption (something we A/G and LDS agree on).

2. Those who come from households where alcohol is abused.

By the sounds of those two groups it could be that everyone is equally at risk?

I think something could be said for a genetic link you increase the chances should someone drink 'casually’? I would also think that a casual drinker could easily become an abuser with stressors in their life as well. I have seen people abuse alcohol when life becomes difficult.

[shanstress70]

Shan I am not upset that you gave your child a sip of beer. Now my question is do you really think this will cause him to never drink? Do you that that sip has cured him in some way? I have seen something similar done with dill pickles only to love them when a child gets older. Things will change for you son as we gets with his peers in his teenage years. The peer pressure to sip will be great.

Just to defend myself, it wasn't even a sip... just a lick.

And no, I don't think it will cure him as far as never wanting to drink. But it cured him for the time being. Before I did this, he saw it as something awesome, to be desired, but forbidden. He probably thought it was going to taste better than anything he had ever tasted. Now that desire is gone... for how long... I'm not sure.

Yes, I know there will be pressure for him to drink in the years to come. I'm still trying to decide how to deal with that. It makes me sick to think of the things he will face.

I do know that he will grow up knowing that if he ever makes bad decisions while he is out, he can call me at any time and I will come get him... AND he won't get in trouble for it.... maybe a talking to, but not in trouble! If he got in trouble for it, he would probably just drive himself next time.

BTW, I grew up knowing that I could ask my mom for a drink at practically anytime while I was home with her. I did have a few bouts of partying when I was younger, but nothing major, as drinking was really no big deal. I really could care less about drinking these days.

I haven't decided if I'll go this route with my child... probably not as relaxed about it as she was... I'm not sure what the best way to approach it is.

[StrawberryFields]

Soul, Do you think that you would have liked it more trying it as a teen than as a child?

[StrawberryFields]

I do know that he will grow up knowing that if he ever makes bad decisions while he is out, he can call me at any time and I will come get him... AND he won't get in trouble for it.... maybe a talking to, but not in trouble! If he got in trouble for it, he would probably just drive himself next time.

Interesting...This is the same way we have chosen to raise our children. If they ever need us to come and pick them up for any reason we will do so. My daughter has even sent me a text message and say call me back and demand I get home now!. I have done just that and she has told me that that call got her out of a bad situation she is 17.

[Maureen]

...Now my question is do you really think this will cause him to never drink?...

This is common thinking for people who see alcohol as a "never" choice. But if you are taught to appreciate and respect alcohol this idea of "never" doesn't really come into view. When my kids were younger and we would go to my brother's house for dinner he would ask them (with my permission) if they wanted to try some wine. They would usually answer "No thanks" mostly because it was something they weren't sure they would like, just like a new food dish. They stuck with the familiar juice or water. As they got older they would try a sip or a smaller amount to see what it was like. And to this day, they are not wine drinkers; it is something they have not acquired a taste for. I think that in many cases kids are smarter than we give them credit for. My daughter in now 18, the legal age to drink in public in Alberta; and she does so on some occasions but not all. She knows what's comfortable for her and what isn't. If you give your kids the chance to make good choices they will. If you make even the simplest things, especially the ones that can be controlled, seem taboo, than the curiousity is going to exist, possibly without the respect.

M.

[prisonchaplain]

By the sounds of those two groups it could be that everyone is equally at risk?

Those raised with religious instruction against drinking, who then imbibe, often feel guilty about their drinking. If they don't quit, they use the alcohol to dull the sense of conviction. It's easy to see where that can lead.

I think something could be said for a genetic link you increase the chances should someone drink 'casually’? I would also think that a casual drinker could easily become an abuser with stressors in their life as well. I have seen people abuse alcohol when life becomes difficult.

Genetics are definitely a huge factor. Now, imagine my situation. I have both abstinence convictions and alcoholism in my family. The safe solution, of course, is to stick with abstinence.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

Shan I am not upset that you gave your child a sip of beer. Now my question is do you really think this will cause him to never drink? Do you that that sip has cured him in some way? I have seen something similar done with dill pickles only to love them when a child gets older. Things will change for you son as we gets with his peers in his teenage years. The peer pressure to sip will be great.

Just to defend myself, it wasn't even a sip... just a lick.

And no, I don't think it will cure him as far as never wanting to drink. But it cured him for the time being. Before I did this, he saw it as something awesome, to be desired, but forbidden. He probably thought it was going to taste better than anything he had ever tasted. Now that desire is gone... for how long... I'm not sure.

Yes, I know there will be pressure for him to drink in the years to come. I'm still trying to decide how to deal with that. It makes me sick to think of the things he will face.

I do know that he will grow up knowing that if he ever makes bad decisions while he is out, he can call me at any time and I will come get him... AND he won't get in trouble for it.... maybe a talking to, but not in trouble! If he got in trouble for it, he would probably just drive himself next time.

BTW, I grew up knowing that I could ask my mom for a drink at practically anytime while I was home with her. I did have a few bouts of partying when I was younger, but nothing major, as drinking was really no big deal. I really could care less about drinking these days.

I haven't decided if I'll go this route with my child... probably not as relaxed about it as she was... I'm not sure what the best way to approach it is.

When my little sister was 8, she would steal beer.

I guess not all kids are the same in that regard...

So that will not be something I would do personally.

Genetics are definitely a huge factor. Now, imagine my situation. I have both abstinence convictions and alcoholism in my family. The safe solution, of course, is to stick with abstinence.

My dad would agree with you, but I think the way people are raised is bigger than genetics.

In my opinion, it cal alter genetics to an extent...

But that is not saying that genetics is not a factor at all.

It most definitely is.

[sf49erfan4ever]

I grew up in a household of alcoholics. Alcoholism runs in my family, on my mom's side. My dad was in the Coast Guard, and was away a lot. I lived with him, my mom, grandman and brother (younger). My grandma and mom drank a LOT! I hated who my grandmother became when she was drinking. She wasn't a nice person. Now, I swore that I would never drink, and even I've tried it a few times. I didn't like the way I was when I was drinking, and I just recently moved out of my apartment to get away from that atmosphere. (both my roommates were drinkers) My parents are divorced now, and my brother lives in California with my mom. My brother has been an alcoholic for a few years now. Everytime I talk to him, he's drunk or hung over. It saddens me that today's youth is starting to drink, smoke and do drugs younger and younger.

[StrawberryFields]

Here is a link that might be of help to anyone who wants to know more.

http://parentsempowered.org/

[Brother Dorsey]

Drinking alcohol is a choice.....and if you remember....it's all an acquired taste....when you had a taste of your first beer I bet you thought it was nasty...same for wine and the harder liquors.....that taste doesn't change just because you get older...it changes because you become accustomed to it....which means you are drinking it more and more...after a while the taste doesn't matter but the high does so you'll drink anything with alcohol in it...the cheap beers, the crappy wines and the harder drinks. The Lord didn't make alcohol taste bad for nothing....it was to warn us and help us make the correct choice. Unfortunately with peer pressure from our friends when we are young we do make the wrong choices and try that first beer, nasty as it was we try another because our friends are telling us to...and another, and another until we acquire a taste for it.......with some this taste will always be bad but acceptable, with others it starts a lifelong dependency on alcohol. We need to warn our children about alcohol....just because it's legal to purchase and consume doesn't make it right.....let's keep the beers and wines and liquors of this world tasting nasty to our children!

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

I know this is an old topic, but I'll chime in with this:

My husband was raised LDS with very strict prohibition. As a teen, he was one of only a few kids he know who didn't drink. He attended parties where alcohol was served and usually didn't have to defend his choice at all. If the host handed him a drink, one of his (drinking) buddies would say "He doesn't drink! Don't give him anything." He has never had so much as a sip of alcohol and though he admits curiosity, he is certain he will never choose to try alcohol.

I was raised by parents who both drank moderately, where drinking socially was expected. In my later teen years, I occasinally had to pick my parents up and drive them home after evenings with friends. I had plenty of opportunities to drink and quite a bit of peer pressure to drink in high school. I think all told, I may have had 2 beers and a wine cooler, plus a few glasses of wine (fancy dinners at home). I had committed to baptism in the LDS Church and had my 21st birthday before my baptism. I thought: I can legally buy drinks now, both law of the land, and because I'm not under covenant yet. So I went out and bought a drink. Big disappointment. I didn't enjoy any aspect of it. Not the thrill of purchasing legally on my b-day. Not the sneaky fear of being seen by someone in the Ward. And I only took a few sips before I decided there was no reason to drink it at all. So I pitchied it in the trash and regretted wasting my money. I have no interest in drinking alcohol at all.

Now cooking with wine or other alcohols is an issue. I feel perfectly fine with making cheese fondue and serving it to my family. The hardest part is buying the forbidden ingredient! I don't like worrying about being seen and having to explain (and that some LDS would not agree with me that it's OK), and I worry even more about being seen and not having the opportunity to explain! So I don't often make some of my favorite recipes. Sigh.

[Nate]

Now cooking with wine or other alcohols is an issue. I feel perfectly fine with making cheese fondue and serving it to my family. The hardest part is buying the forbidden ingredient! I don't like worrying about being seen and having to explain (and that some LDS would not agree with me that it's OK), and I worry even more about being seen and not having the opportunity to explain! So I don't often make some of my favorite recipes. Sigh.

I do not think people should drink for many reasons but this quote above really strikes a cord. Alcohol has been used since man has been here. It was not a bad thing. Remember Noah passed out and his sons placed the garment on him, he was not condemed but the fault was toward his son, not him. There was nothing wrong with it. When abused, yes its bad. Because of how it effects people as a whole who are not responsible we have the word of wisdom. Even in beginning of the church drinks were fine just not the excess.

Cooking with alcohol is fine (especially fondue!! ). The LDS as a whole have stereotyped alcohol as from the devil. Joseph Smith drank! He chose not to later but in the final moments of his life he had a drink. Now we are under covenant not to so we don't, no issues but we need to get the stereotype out cause the world is not evil for drinking. Drinking is not as widely an issue in europe cause its not raised as taboo.

I am not attacking anyone its just something for some reason i'm passionate about. Its just erks me that some 300lb person sitting there telling me how drinking is of the devil cause of the WOW (they kinda missed the point).

Anyway back to topic, kids drink in rebellian cause they are not allowed. My wife was raised as a first generation American where drinking was common amoung adults and young adults. So when she went through her rebelian stage it had nothing to do with drinking cause it was a common part of life and was not held as taboo. Just a thought.

[CrimsonKairos]

I think cooking with or drinking alcohol is pointless...drinking especially is damaging.

On a lighter note, here is a line from an old French drinking song (as recorded in The Count of Monte Cristo):

The flood proved it beyond a doubt:

All wicked men do water drink.

[Nate]

I think cooking with or drinking alcohol is pointless...drinking especially is damaging

Apparently you have never had a good fondue. :)

My wife was raised by a chief and uses wine a lot in the cooking (of course its cooked out), I duno cause its pretty good stuff. Maybe its pointless to you and your culture but to others most definitely not.

[rosie321]

I think cooking with or drinking alcohol is pointless...drinking especially is damaging.

On a lighter note, here is a line from an old French drinking song (as recorded in The Count of Monte Cristo):

The flood proved it beyond a doubt:

All wicked men do water drink.

The word of wisdom has always been been a topic of great struggle for me. I hate to indepthly discuss it with those outside of the church. Deep down I truly believe that it was meant to help us and guide us so I try to follow it the best I can, but the details of it are really bothersome. For example . J.S. was supposed to have drank yet he wouldn't take anything when having surgery. Hot drinks are bad for the belly yet hot chocolate is not banned and is included with food storage. Herbal tea is ok but black and green teas are bad. Postum good but coffee bad... Eat only in times of famine and hunger. Then why does every church event have food? When I think of hunger I guess I think of the poor and impoverished from 3rd world countries. In America I don't know that we're ever really hungry in a culture of 3-5 meal a day regimes or snacks between. Some people throw cola drinks or caffienated drinks into their interpretation of it.

THe WOW gets really complicated fast. I prefer simplicity. This little brain of mine can only take so much :) .

The cooking with alcohol personally bothers me a little too. I can't really purposefully add alcohol to what I cook and justify that with the not drinking alcohol promises. The more I conciously accept the slippier the slope I feel. On the other hand though when I go over to someones house or I eat food prepared by someone else I don't sit there and ask for a list of ingredients. Most medications have alcohol in to. I guess I'm not like Joseph Smith in the oft told stories of when he refused the alcohol when having the surgery. When I'm sick I might hold out a little but then I take the alcohol laden medicine and hope for some relief.

I truly believe there are many benefits to trying to live the wow the best one can. I just struggle with it being a commandment and how to really live it in the proper way. There are just so many interpretations.

BTW Crimson lol on the wicked men drinking water