Thou Shall Not Covet

[bds4206]

I have a question that I'd like to pose to everyone here.

In regard to the commandment "Thou Shall Not Covet"

I think of this commandment as more of a jealousy commandment. If someone desires financial stability / freedom, a nice house and nice things does that equal coveting to you? I think of someone saying I want that guys job, that guys house, that guys wife, etc as coveting...not necessarily wanting nice things for yourself that you earn as going against that commandment.

what say you?

[Guest]

I agree with you, but I'd say it's wanting what someone else has to the point of disliking or even loathing them for having it, and/or trying to get it from them.

[pam]

I remember when I was much younger, someone once said; instead of saying "ohhh I want YOUR car" to say "Ohhh I want a car just like yours." Semantics I'm sure, but it has always stuck with me.

[Traveler]

I have a question that I'd like to pose to everyone here.

In regard to the commandment "Thou Shall Not Covet"

I think of this commandment as more of a jealousy commandment. If someone desires financial stability / freedom, a nice house and nice things does that equal coveting to you? I think of someone saying I want that guys job, that guys house, that guys wife, etc as coveting...not necessarily wanting nice things for yourself that you earn as going against that commandment.

what say you?

The only problem with your thinking is that everything belongs to the L-rd. Even you have been redeemed for a price that has not been paid back - yet.

The Traveler

[bds4206]

The only problem with your thinking is that everything belongs to the L-rd. Even you have been redeemed for a price that has not been paid back - yet.

The Traveler

but by that logic anyone that wanted anything would be coveting...in which case we are all in big trouble..no?

[pam]

My understanding of the word covet is to want something someone else has. I think all of us have wanted something in our lives. Not necessarily something that someone else has. Yet I don't see that as coveting. I'd like a townhouse along the beach in San Diego for vacation purposes..yet I don't know anyone personally that has that.

Edited June 28, 2012 by pam

[james12]

While the commandment “thou shall not covet” may have much to do with wanting what someone else has or being jealous I think Christ has pointed the way to a higher law. In the sermon on the mount he says, “ Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Matt 6:19-21). In this simple statement we are taken from the rather petty concerns of comparing ourselves to our neighbors to the much more lofty goal of laying up treasures in heaven. For when one is focused on laying up treasures in heaven covetousness will fly out the window.

Things of the world are so transient, they are here today and gone tomorrow. And yet, try as I may, at times I find myself fixated on them. This in my mind is an extension of “thou shall not covet”. Any time we seek to find our happiness and self worth in things of the world we become in some sense emotionally attached to them. For instance, I live in a rather new area and was talking to a friend the other day about a busy road. He said he thought it would eventually pass right next to my backyard. That night and the next day I kept thinking about it. I hate living next to busy roads! I did not realize until that moment how such a minor issue would concern me. How attached I was to the location of my home.

We can of course seek to find ourselves in many things: beauty, strength, objects, and even people. This issue of people is interesting, instead of being comfortable with ourselves and taking people for who they are we can at time seek to use others. We can become demanding or set for others all sorts of unrealistic expectations they must meet. This can occur even, and perhaps especially, when we are married to them.

Earlier in the Sermon on the Mount I find some more useful advice, “But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth”. Thus even in giving we must avoid self satisfaction, in fact even our left hand should not know what our right had done! Henry Drummond pointed out that even after doing a kind deed we must put a seal of humility on it, for love must hide even from itself.

Wanting what our neighboor has is indeed minor in comparison to the Savior's lofty standard.

[Dove]

James12;

You bring up a lot of really good points~

What you said lead me to think about the fine line/balance between seeking for things of this world and doing what one needs to do to be self sufficient. Paying bills for food and shelter is a necessary evil.....and it seems necessary, especially in our economy, to be "anxiously engaged" in this. In fact, in many homes, both parents are forced to work outside the home just to make ends meet.

So, what's the answer? I think of the scriptures in the Book of Mormon which say, "But before ye seek for riches, seek ye the kingdom of God. And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good- to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted." (Jacob 2:18-19)

This makes it pretty clear to me. To put God first and all else will follow. I also notice that these verses speak of "riches" and not "necessities."

Coveting also means to me seeking for those things one can't have or afford. It's not just being jealous, it's placing material wealth ahead of seeking the Savior and our Heavenly Father. There's a lot to be said for being grateful and making use of the bounteous wealth we are privileged to have in the U.S. already. Most of all, I am so very grateful to be in a promised land with the opportunity to embraced the restored gospel.

Dove

[Traveler]

Woops - I posted on the wrong thread so I will re post it here.

I do think it is okay even good (and necessary) to covet truth.

The Traveler

[Guest]

Woops - I posted on the wrong thread so I will re post it here.

I do think it is okay even good (and necessary) to covet truth.

The Traveler

Traveler, although the sentence makes sense and sounds good on the surface it's really not a good use of the word covet.

The word covet carries with it a negative connotation. The negative connotation is part of the definition. Desire doesn't have that negative connotation even though it is used a lot with a negative meaning. Do you see what I'm saying?

Here's an analogous relationship that is much clearer:

murder versus kill

They both mean the same - end someone's life. But murder carries a negative connotation as part of its definition (that of malice and unlawfulness).

So you can't really replace kill with the word murder just like you can't really replace desire with the word covet unless you intend to carry the negative connotation.

[skalenfehl]

To the OP:

"Thou shalt not covet thine own property..."

Ponder this for a bit.

[Traveler]

Traveler, although the sentence makes sense and sounds good on the surface it's really not a good use of the word covet.

The word covet carries with it a negative connotation. The negative connotation is part of the definition. Desire doesn't have that negative connotation even though it is used a lot with a negative meaning. Do you see what I'm saying?

Here's an analogous relationship that is much clearer:

murder versus kill

They both mean the same - end someone's life. But murder carries a negative connotation as part of its definition (that of malice and unlawfulness).

So you can't really replace kill with the word murder just like you can't really replace desire with the word covet unless you intend to carry the negative connotation.

Often in poetry and other literary forms it is not uncommon to use extreme definitions in the most extent symbolical way to make important points - Even in scripture. An example is to hunger and thrust after righteousness.

I intended to draw on that symbolism where negative connotations are sometimes attached to those seeking seemingly "forbidden" truths. But you are (in my mind) at least in part correct because even truth can be used by those so desperately inclined for a negative purpose. Sometimes we call such efforts half or partial truths.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

To the OP:

"Thou shalt not covet thine own property..."

Ponder this for a bit.

I think there is already a term for this - it is called selfishness.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

but by that logic anyone that wanted anything would be coveting...in which case we are all in big trouble..no?

This is why we try to desire things as we have an eye single to the glory of God. The purpose of which is the most important thing.

Even Cain's punishment was because he did the thing he did to get gain for himself. The purpose can't be separated from the act.

We seek after things of good report so we can advance the Lord's work, the admonition of Paul and King Benjamin and Joseph Smith.

[skalenfehl]

I think there is already a term for this - it is called selfishness.

The Traveler

Keep going...

[skalenfehl]

Something we can think about in our own lives:

Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

But we don't have to be rich to disqualify ourselves. We can be selfish of time, service and even our talents. Christ was teaching about the Law of Consecration.

D&C 19:26 And again, I command thee that thou shalt not covet thine own property, but impart it freely to the printing of the Book of Mormon, which contains the truth and the word of God—

33 And misery thou shalt receive if thou wilt slight these counsels, yea, even the destruction of thyself and property.

34 Impart a portion of thy property, yea, even part of thy lands, and all save the support of thy family.

35 Pay the debt thou hast contracted with the printer. Release thyself from bondage.

Martin Harris was trying to make back money by locally pre-selling a few copies of the Book of Mormon to pay back a loan. After chastisement from the Lord, Martin mortgaged his farm, thousands of copies of the Book of Mormon went into production and print and the gathering of Israel commenced.

[Traveler]

Keep going...

How's this? When we serve others we serve G-d.

The Traveler

[Scovy]

This scripture comes to mind always thinking of covet 1 Timothy 6:10:

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows"

One thing to note is its the "love of money" and not just "money" that brings evil into our lives. As others have said when we turn our focus away from the Lord and turn it to objects of the word and let it consume us we begin to covet that which is not ours.

To share one more scripture where the "be ye of the world and not of it" quote comes from, Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God"

When we treasure things more than the Lord or our Families we begin to covet which brings in wrong feelings into our lives that can never be fulfilled unless we turn our focus back to the Lord were we will be fulfilled and consumed by his Spirit.

Think of coveting like this your family recently bought a new "46 TV for your house, but Billy Bob across the street just got a "60 TV and was recently showing it off to you. In your mind you start to think that it would of been great to have this size instead of the one you recently got. Coveting brings in selfishness thinking that will turn to pride and other ungodly feelings.

[Misshalfway]

This scripture comes to mind always thinking of covet 1 Timothy 6:10:

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows"

One thing to note is its the "love of money" and not just "money" that brings evil into our lives. As others have said when we turn our focus away from the Lord and turn it to objects of the word and let it consume us we begin to covet that which is not ours.

To share one more scripture where the "be ye of the world and not of it" quote comes from, Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God"

When we treasure things more than the Lord or our Families we begin to covet which brings in wrong feelings into our lives that can never be fulfilled unless we turn our focus back to the Lord were we will be fulfilled and consumed by his Spirit.

Think of coveting like this your family recently bought a new "46 TV for your house, but Billy Bob across the street just got a "60 TV and was recently showing it off to you. In your mind you start to think that it would of been great to have this size instead of the one you recently got. Coveting brings in selfishness thinking that will turn to pride and other ungodly feelings.

I grew up in a ward like this. Lots of discussions about name brand jeans and the kind of car you are "supposed" to drive.

Lots of pain comes from this toxic influence.

[annewandering]

To the OP:

"Thou shalt not covet thine own property..."

Ponder this for a bit.

I am not sure what you are gettng at here but it reminds me of an important lesson I learned once.

I found the most gorgeous huge opal cab at quartzite. It was only $40! Ok I just knew I could make the most beautiful piece of jewelry out of that so I bought it! I was beyond excited! I very carefully designed a wonderful pendant with silver feathers and tiny little faceted gems (forgot what ones) to accent this piece. When It was finished it was the most beautiful thing I had ever made. I was so proud of it and I LOVED it. I liked to display it very prominently in my display case but was very careful to price it way over what I thought anyone would pay.

So one day I was helping one customer when I saw a little old lady holding a nice amethyst necklace in her hand. I went over to help her and she said she was just admiring it then she left. It only took a minute or two to realize my precious opal pendant was also gone. My mind went back to that little old lady standing there holding the amethysts and her open purse. I was sick. We did all the hunting for her and notifying security etc but never did get the pendant back.

My stomach actually hurt. I was just sick. MY wonderful pendant that I LOVED was gone and it was irreplaceable. After a bit I realized how much I had put into that pendant. It was a THING. I had, if you will, coveted that piece of jewelry to an alarming degree. Things are just things no matter how beautiful they are. We cannot wrap ourselves around them and be happy. God and People are the only important parts of our life. That is where our desire should be.

[Guest]

I grew up in a ward like this. Lots of discussions about name brand jeans and the kind of car you are "supposed" to drive.

Lots of pain comes from this toxic influence.

So, who do you think was the source of the toxic influence... the woman who bought name brand jeans or the people who were talking about it?

There are times when I wish I could just buy the kind of jeans that are super comfortable and lasts a long time in the abuse I give it without having to worry about people looking down on me for buying expensive ones. There's a reason brands become... name brands. I have 10-year-old Michael Kors shoes. I can't make Payless shoes last more than 6 months unless I only wear them on Fast Sundays. And that's not even counting the hurt it gives my feet.

Edited July 1, 2012 by anatess

[annewandering]

anatess, cheap shoes, mostly, are not good buys. Pain is a no no from shoes. So do you care if people are judgmental when YOUR motives are logical and smart?

[Misshalfway]

So, who do you think was the source of the toxic influence... the woman who bought name brand jeans or the people who were talking about it?

There are times when I wish I could just buy the kind of jeans that are super comfortable and lasts a long time in the abuse I give it without having to worry about people looking down on me for buying expensive ones. There's a reason brands become... name brands. I have 10-year-old Michael Kors shoes. I can't make Payless shoes last more than 6 months unless I only wear them on Fast Sundays. And that's not even counting the hurt it gives my feet.

Well, I think the answer is obvious. It's in the pride...the comparisions...the way we believe that we are not enough without "it"....the way we think others won't accept us unless we have "it"....the way we lose our perspective over social status!

It's not about "it"! It's about the lack of love in our hearts......lack of love for self first. Lack of love for others in turn. This is the first disobedience.....to the second great commandment. Disobedience to the covet thing is second.

And I think you make a great illustration about how it ricochets. If someone is jealous of us or looks down on us, it can produce an equal but opposite counter judgment.

This kind of reactivity is always toxic.

If we are living the principle here, we could buy the jeans and be fine with it.....and we could be fine with anyone who wasn't fine with it. All because we were living the laws of love.

[skalenfehl]

I am not sure what you are gettng at here but it reminds me of an important lesson I learned once.

I found the most gorgeous huge opal cab at quartzite. It was only $40! Ok I just knew I could make the most beautiful piece of jewelry out of that so I bought it! I was beyond excited! I very carefully designed a wonderful pendant with silver feathers and tiny little faceted gems (forgot what ones) to accent this piece. When It was finished it was the most beautiful thing I had ever made. I was so proud of it and I LOVED it. I liked to display it very prominently in my display case but was very careful to price it way over what I thought anyone would pay.

So one day I was helping one customer when I saw a little old lady holding a nice amethyst necklace in her hand. I went over to help her and she said she was just admiring it then she left. It only took a minute or two to realize my precious opal pendant was also gone. My mind went back to that little old lady standing there holding the amethysts and her open purse. I was sick. We did all the hunting for her and notifying security etc but never did get the pendant back.

My stomach actually hurt. I was just sick. MY wonderful pendant that I LOVED was gone and it was irreplaceable. After a bit I realized how much I had put into that pendant. It was a THING. I had, if you will, coveted that piece of jewelry to an alarming degree. Things are just things no matter how beautiful they are. We cannot wrap ourselves around them and be happy. God and People are the only important parts of our life. That is where our desire should be.

Thank you for sharing that thought. Hence the reason I followed up with a second post. I hope you read it.

[Guest]

anatess, cheap shoes, mostly, are not good buys. Pain is a no no from shoes. So do you care if people are judgmental when YOUR motives are logical and smart?

Nope. I don't. Just like I don't care if people in RS gossip about me or anybody else. I just care that they may end up hurting somebody - including me - by their off-putting remarks or attitudes or that they may not be holding on to the iron rod like we are all adviced to do.

Now, of course the jeans and shoes comment I made is just a hypothetical. I've not heard anybody in our ward say anything about my jeans nor my shoes. But, I have heard somebody in our ward pass by a new BMW car parked in the church parking lot and make a comment, "somebody's having a mid-life crisis". Now, we were all leaving the church... for all she knows, the owner of the car is the guy walking right behind her.

Isn't that the great challenge, though? How to care for the direction others are headed, loving others as we are commanded, without being judgemental about it?