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Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living, and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living, and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

I don't say anything to them. Such ignorant and hateful people deserve no response.

Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living,

I would probably gather the facts so we know what we're talking about. The Church gives an enormous amount of money to the humanitarian effort. There are examples and examples of how effective and helpful the Church is after something like hurricanes, tsunamis, and 3rd world country missions. There are also statistics that show how efficient the church is with the money, whereas many organizations only give $0.75 of every dollar donated to the cause to pay for overhead expenses...these things can be researched to dispel wrong information.

and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

These are hard questions. I don't have good answers for it, because it is so sad. But we do know that it happens, and people suffer in this world, and it doesn't seem fair from our vantage point.

It takes faith to see evil and suffering, and yet believe we do not see all things now, and that through the Atonement there is hope that God will make all things right, for He loves all His children.

Unfortunately, those answers don't stop the suffering, and can be not fulfilling answers. Best we can do is try to realize we can be part of the solution...not sit back and ask why God doesn't fix everything for us.

We can sit back and criticize the church, or criticize God...or we can roll up our sleeves and try to make a difference in the world around us.

Posted (edited)

and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

I'll tell you one thing - as I was born in this Third World Country you spoke of - Filipinos in poverty-stricken areas are one of the most faithful people in the whole wide world.

People of relative wealth (oy, there's a big difference between starving Americans and starving Filipinos so much so that starving Americans are relatively wealthy to starving Filipinos. Sad, huh?) have a bigger challenge to embracing Faith because first, they have more options, and second, they feel more empowered and may feel they have a lesser need for a God... Filipinos with nothing can embrace Faith so much easier because hey - being called a child of such a powerful being such as God is about the only thing that can make them feel worthy of being alive.

So, if I was a pre-mortal being and I had a choice on which country to be born in and I am made of weaker stuff, I'd go and get myself born in poverty-stricken Philippines. Then I don't have far to go to humble myself to the level that I can accept that my life belongs completely to God and I am open to doing His Will. I won't have to worry about losing material strappings to do His bidding.

Edited by anatess
Posted

I've never thought of such questions. As I put some thought to them I see how they can be difficult to answer. I have some thoughts about the last one which likely won't be a complete answer but could give some insight into why a loving God would allow children to be born into circumstances where they will surely suffer hunger and suffer for the lack of clothes and other things.

All the children of Heavenly Father need to be born to gain a body. There are some who only come here long enough to get a body and then are called from this earth to help in the spirit world.

We are here to be tested and I feel part of this test is to see what we will do with what God gives us. I believe there are enough resources on the earth that all could be fed and clothed, but in many cases it costs a lot of money, money that many people are unwilling to spend on such an effort. So some of Heavenly Father's children suffer because of selfishness.

Sometimes, we only gain understanding and empathy by doing and/or experiencing for ourselves. This is not to say we should purposely break commandments of God so we can empathize with and understand those that do. But it is true that if we experience hunger we can understand better others who are starving and can empathize with them and that can prepare people to lead movements to fight hunger and to cloth the naked because they knew what it was like and remember well that time of suffering and do not want others to suffer the same way they did. Whereas there can be well meaning people who have never felt hunger in their lives and so they do not understand the problem the same way someone who lived with hunger can.

It may well be that there is a need for people who survive and thrive in adverse situations to give hope to others and to help more fortunate people see the need to help those less fortunate than themselves.

It is also possible that Heavenly Fathers children that are born into suffering need those experiences to help them grow and be ready to accept the gospel when they hear it and He knowing how they are and will be after they have forgotten their premortal life has sent them into the situation which can make them most receptive to the gospel. If that is true then He is indeed showing great love to them since this life is but a short time compared to all eternity and His ultimate goal is that all return to live with him in happiness for having done all that was required of them.

I'm sure there are things I didn't think of and in know way am I implying what I typed is doctrine of the church, but these seem to me to be possible answers to your question.

Posted

Thanks for all of your responses. There is more to the situation with this person which adds to his negative attitude towards not just the LDS religion but all religion and especially with God. This person's anger stems from sever child abuse at the hands of his parents, especially his dad. Though baptized as LDS, he says he wants nothing more to do with religion. He claims the people are hypocrites, always talking through sacrament meetings and other meetings and they look down on men who haven't served missions. He is a convert and so he didn't serve a mission.

I just hope Heavenly Father will understand his circumstance and won't condemn him for how he feels.

Posted

Thanks for all of your responses. There is more to the situation with this person which adds to his negative attitude towards not just the LDS religion but all religion and especially with God. This person's anger stems from sever child abuse at the hands of his parents, especially his dad. Though baptized as LDS, he says he wants nothing more to do with religion. He claims the people are hypocrites, always talking through sacrament meetings and other meetings and they look down on men who haven't served missions. He is a convert and so he didn't serve a mission.

I just hope Heavenly Father will understand his circumstance and won't condemn him for how he feels.

Well, President Monson didn't go on a mission...

Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living,

"I love you." Then seek to understand their heart and seek to discern if the heart is still soft or hard.

If hard, then Vort provided the perfect answer.

If soft, then show love and provide all the facts contrary to his belief. The church has General Conference talks and ensign talks regarding the humanitarian aid the church provides. This will hopefully provide knowledge that will help a troubled heart.

The only money spent on saving the dead is Temples, and yet Temples are to save the living who in turn help their dead ancestors. So this isn't money just spent for the dead, but also for the living.

and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

This is a common question from those who have not comprehended God's love, and what love actually is. I believe I am in that boat.

Anatess, provided an excellent answer regarding the last question. I remember a conference talk where the Sister speaking talked about how God loves everyone. She asked the question does God love me just as much as he loves other in third world countries who are very poor. She said, "yes." However, I think it is very easy for one who is rich to say God loves all, verses the poor saying God loves all.

I have come to the conclusion that God does love, and all that he does is out of love and long-suffering for the children of men. It is not God's love that has established third world countries, it is humankind's quest for power, money, and the honors of men which create the inequality we see in today's world.

Remember, if we all follow God's plan, then we would be living the law of consecration. I don't believe, personally, there would be any third world status, if we all kept and followed God's commandments.

Posted

Remember, if we all follow God's plan, then we would be living the law of consecration. I don't believe, personally, there would be any third world status, if we all kept and followed God's commandments.

And there wouldn't be a first either. There would be just one world.

Interesting concept but unattainable without the "cleansing" first. This agency thing, I tell ya... always gets man in trouble.

Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living, and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

Hello,

First of all, I really appreciate the answers given so far to these questions! Anatess, thanks for giving that bit of information that Pres Monson didn't serve a mission...Wow, who knew?

Luvmikds;

These are difficult questions to answer, especially about sending one of His spirit children whom He loves to some third world country...I've thought about this myself, or also of the Jewish children in WWII who went insane because of the atrocities they witnessed at the hands of the German soldiers...

What comforts me is my strong assurance that God does live and love me personally. And, if He loves me, it goes to follow that He loves all His children. He is still fair and just, merciful and kind...The children who suffer and die before the age of 8 are immediately exalted in the celestial kingdom...those who remain alive are not going to be held accountable for those situations that "broke" them, i.e., were too much for them to handle.

I strongly believe that the Savior personally suffered every pain these children are being forced to suffer. That He understands perfectly what they are going through and will bless them accordingly in the hereafter. I have heard that as soon as a child who is suffering like this dies has their pain immediately taken away and healing occurs for them.

I feel for your friend who has suffered severe abuse at the hands of his parents....I relate to what he's going through....As has been mentioned, God cannot change/intervene in someone's agency. However, God is not at fault for the evil people choose to do...He is not evil; but, good. Again, He just and merciful and we will all stand accountable for what we've done here on earth~inasmuch as we knowingly and willfully committed evil acts against others, we will have to answer to God for this. Your friend may want to try to find out if his parents were abused as well, and to see how many generations back it goes. Be an example of the Savior in your friends life. Love him, love him and love him more.

Dove

Posted

Hello,

First of all, I really appreciate the answers given so far to these questions! Anatess, thanks for giving that bit of information that Pres Monson didn't serve a mission...Wow, who knew?

He joined the Naval Reserve at age 17 during the tail end of World War II so he didn't serve a full-time mission. He resigned his naval commission at age 22 to serve as bishop. He served for 3 years as a mission president for the Canadian mission at age 31. He was called an apostle at age 36.

Posted

And there wouldn't be a first either. There would be just one world.

Interesting concept but unattainable without the "cleansing" first. This agency thing, I tell ya... always gets man in trouble.

Very true anatess, very true. Status would be eliminated, except that we are all brothers and sisters in the gospel, and all seeking the eternal goal.

Agency, now I know why I am always in trouble with my wife, I think Kristi is praying really hard for my cleansing;)

Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living?

1) First, please know that the Church does both. There is a budget for building and maintaining temples and there is another budget for humanitarian projects. If you're curious, there's 23 videos on the LDS.org about the Church's humanitarian efforts. And I'm pretty sure The World Report always has something to say about it as well. But I think the real underlying complaint is that money spent on something else (anything else) is a comparitive waste next to the greatest good of serving others. In which case, I would remind you that

2) The Church is in the business of saving souls. It is not primarily a service club, a charity corporation, or a humanitarian construct. It is a church. The mission statement is to "bring people to Christ". God has made it clear that serving our fellowman is a part of the path to returning home to Him, so the Church serves and funds service. He has also made it clear that the work we do in temples brings us closer to Him and aids the salvation of others, so the Church has us serve in temples and funds that work. God has made it clear that all must come unto Him to be saved, so the Church sends missionaries and funds that work.

3) In my experience, most people that have such a concern only care about how other (wealthy) people or organizations spend money, not themselves. Do they go out to eat, spending extra money on dining out instead of eating in and contributing to the hungry? Do they watch movies instead of contributing time and money to aid the sorrowful in their own back yard (visiting the local VA hospital and saying "thank you")? Do they own or rent a house or apartment much bigger than what they need? If they were serious about helping the homeless, they would not sleep in a bed, and donate that money to provide shelter. For some reason, there's some justification for a healthy amount of diversification in their lives, but not in the lives of the wealthy, or for other organizations.

Posted

What are "they" doing to help the poor?

Alms to the poor?

Donating clothing/time to charity?

Selling all that they have and giving it to the poor?

or just complaining that 'our' church isn't doing enough?

There are plenty of groups to join who are engaged in positive activities, invite them to choose the one they prefer and go with God.

Posted (edited)

It's a loaded question like, "when did you stop beating your wife?":o

No one knows how much the church spends on temples vs other items in the budget. And one must remember that temples serve the living more than the "dead". Thus fulfilling the Lord's purposes.

As far as sending children into seemingly impossible situations, I can only say that it must be better than any other alternative. God sees all of history, we are seeing only a slice, and a small one at that.

Why was anyone born before the invention of air conditioning??That's pretty cruel when you stop and think about it...........:-(

Edited by mrmarklin
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

What do you say to someone when they tell you the LDS church cares more about spending money to save the dead than they do for humanitarian help for those living, and why would God send one of his spirit children whom he loves to some third world country where they are naked and starving. How is that a loving God?

1) direct them to the DI HQ

2) tell them that most places where there are naked and starving tend to have laws against us being there.

3) ask them to go look up the numbers....

or if i'm really wantin to be blasphemous... 4) say "I know god is a loving god because he made sure i promised to keep his commandments and stuck me here in the USA talking to some blathering idiot, without having a gun on hand"

or prolly best action is not to say anything and continue on your way.

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