The oldest question and how to deal

[Backroads]

So I somehow, while browsing, find myself reading a business article that decides to provide a summary of the temple ceremony... complete with nasty anti-Mormon comments at the end. I made myself stop reading it all, but I still feel angry, upset, and am having trouble calming down.

I've probably given advice on this sort of thing, but it really is so hard!

[Vort]

Sorry to hear it. It is difficult to see something you hold sacred treated with lightness, vulgarity, and contempt.

The good news is that the temple ceremony is symbolic of a much deeper truth, one they cannot touch.

[beefche]

Read the scriptures. Seriously, pick up up the scriptures, open them and then read a chapter or two. The Spirit is there and you can acces Him through the scriptures quickly.

And then, remember the advice we gave Bini? Don't do it again!

[Backroads]

It's just amazing how quickly all good feeling will leave the room when that sort of stuff comes on the screen. It was like I actually felt the presence of evil.

[beefche]

It's just amazing how quickly all good feeling will leave the room when that sort of stuff comes on the screen. It was like I actually felt the presence of evil.

Then you should do something deliberate to invite the Spirit back in. Read scriptures, pray, sing a hymn.

[Backroads]

Then you should do something deliberate to invite the Spirit back in. Read scriptures, pray, sing a hymn.

Doing so. I'm at work on very sloooow afternoon. Pulled up the online scriptures and switched iheartradio to some hymns.

[classylady]

I've also stumbled into reading some stuff on the internet about the temple too, and it leaves such a bad "after taste" if you can call it that. Afterwards, I just tried to forget about it, (harder said than done), and did a lot of praying to feel the Spirit. Thankfully, the bad feeling went away.

[NeuroTypical]

I've spent a decade interacting with church critics and seeking out criticisms of my faith. There's pretty much no topic I haven't dealt with. But I've always refused to participate in critical discussions involving temple content. I'm thinking I made the correct choice.

[RipplecutBuddha]

I have found that the true humble seekers of truth tend to come to us on their own ready to hear what we say and give faith a try. Any time I come across religious debate I generally don't give it the time of day, as there are very rarely any open hearts involved on either side. It's just not worth the time and energy.

Regarding temple truths, whenever a non-member asks me what it's all about I tell them "Join the church when you believe it's true, then come talk to me a year later. I'll discuss some of it with you then."

I will sometimes go so far as to explain that everything in the temple centers around Christ and his Atonement for us in some manner, but only when the discussion is respectful in tone, and I won't usually venture more than that. I just find it best that way.

[C_T_R]

I don't seek out anti-mormon literature, but I am interested in hearing other's beliefs. I've come across a lot of heresy in articles about the church. I can sympathize with how it affected you.

I've personally known people who've attended the temple unworthily, and that's not me being judgemental. There was actual factual.. in the one case I'm referring to it was absolutely black and white. But, she (being a grown woman, with a Ph.D. no less) obviously lied to her bishop and stake president and got the green light to go.

It initially really bothered some people I know. But can you imagine what the temple would be like for someone who, because of their choices, can't feel and experience the Spirit? ... It's just a building.. some wood and paint. Even the different things that happen in there.. would just be meaningless.

I understand how that makes you feel -- to have something that means so much to you denigrated. But I have a hard time with the idea that the Spirit just departs because you read something you're uncomfortable with. No doubt, just as God is real, Evil is as well. But could that feeling you had be the Spirit communicating that that is not truth? I've been taught all my life that the Holy Ghost departs when something bad comes on TV or you read something that is not conducive to His being with you. I don't get the idea that God the Father, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Ghost are THAT touchy! Don't take this the wrong way. I understand that they will not be in a place that is embracing evil, unless of course they're there to help. But to read someone's point of view, no matter how offensive, at least in my experience doesn't drive Them away. They *want* to be with you. They take every opportunity to be if you let them. And no TV commercial that you had no control over seeing or earnestly seeking out truth and not finding it isn't a sin. They love you. They're not LOOKING to be offended; for any chance they can get to depart.

The more you know who you are, and what you believe/know, the less you let others upset you. I was told a silly metaphor once that might apply to you and it might not. I'm sure it was more of a parable then I realize(d) (even now lol) but I'll try to recall it the best I can.

So a man is up in the mountains mining for gold and he takes some rocks in his pan and dips them in a sweet water river, and they turn to gold! And he continues to do this.. and all the rocks he dips in the water turn to gold. Not too long after he discovers this, a gang of bandits comes along and makes him show them how to do it. Once they see, they (not so kindly) tell him to leave so they can have it all to themselves. And the man complies, says, "I'll be on my way," and starts to head out. But he turns back and says, "Oh I forgot to tell you.. ... oh, nevermind. You don't want to know." Of course the bandits step up and they're all like, "Oh yes, we DO want to know." And the man says, "If you think of brown monkeys it won't work." :) How many pieces of gold do you think they were able to make after that? Zero.

So, my advice is, don't brown monkey it. In one ear, out the other. Don't hold on to other's ignorance. Satan would like to upset you and keep you in that space as long as he can. But you know the truth. So let the evil go like water off a ducks back. It's nonsense.

Having said all this, the Gospel encompasses all truth and I think reading other people's views, both in the church and outside it, can be truly enlightening and worthwhile. Take what *feels* like truth, and let the rest go. That's how I've approached it, and I've learned so much, and gained so much light from places and people that don't conform to the same standards we do. Everyone is a child of God. Everyone, including members of our faith, is on a different level of understanding. Try to see past what you may believe are shortcomings or misunderstandings of truth, and see the child of God within them.

((hugs))

Edited August 1, 2012 by C_T_R

[Eleven]

Any time you ever see anti mormon literature, remember these words from Christ

"If the world hate you, know that it hated me before you"

I cant remember the chapter/verse, its the same as when Christ says "no greater love than his, than a man that lay down his life for his friends. If ye love me keep my commandments."

anyways what im getting at is to me, i interpret anti mormon literature as proof that we really do have our heads on straight. They tried and tried and tried and tried (i could keep going) to find fault with Christ and failed everytime. They did everything they possibly could.

Fact is theyre doing the same to us. See the parallel? The world SHOULD hate the true and everlasting church. If ours is the most ridiculed, YET we seem to be right up there at the top of most converts and such, I think that says something.

So let them say what they want. Im somewhat glad they make fun of my religion, it shows Ive stood up for something in my life and also shows that theyve been trying the same tactics for close to 100 years hoping someday our church will crash and burn and it never will.

I believe the dictionary calls that insanity.

[Gramajane]

So I enjoy sharing my beliefs with others and hearing what good there is in their lives, and with that when I found a nondenominational site several years ago, I enjoyed sharing with others, as they really had some messed up ideas of LDS- many which were plain old anti.

--- I had many attack me on there, but I felt good about being able to answer with scriptures from the bible, and not have a bad spirit

UNTIL- I saw on there where one of the senior members was saying essentially this, "we want a new audio or video of the temple ceremony- does anyone have a temple recommend we could use?"

--- now THAT upset me, and then the responses were just as bad! They were totally dishonest and believed Satans lie that is shown in the Doc of Cov, that Satan teaches his followers that it is ok to lie to supposedly catch another in their supposed lies. -- which was totally their reasoning.

--- so to act a lie about who they were to get in, or lie to get a recommend etc.

--- as the moderators were already watching me like hawks,

( and totally had a double standard on what others could say to insult me- I never retaliated in kind )

so when a moderator got mixed up and thought I said what another had said to me, I was put on warning, and then another guest stood up for me and THEY were put on warning!

--- anyway, I was not unhappy to be "barred' for saying they were acting dishonestly to enter the temple under deceptive means and for the purpose of doing what was against the rules in recording etc. ---

I just hope (and believe) that some saw the light from what I got to share on there. :)

--- please be aware that just like God prepared the second set of records, knowing that the 116 pages would be lost, that God has things in hand, and we just need to do what is right :)

[Backroads]

The funny thing is that usually when I do happen to stumble on such stuff, I can do all the usual things and be pretty much fine. I wonder if these pregnancy hormones are making it worse. I drove home (which is an hour's commute yesterday) and still was upset enough to cry to my husband.

[bytebear]

The funny thing is, I read the anti-Mormon article, and it didn't go into temple details, just giving the general gist of the temple experience, but he painted in such a negative light, focusing on the "secrecy" of the experience, with the general message that these are things that are so strange that the Mormons will never tell you about them, and you have to be a super secret member to discover them.

Well, I recalled a speech by Boyd K Packard on the temple, so I did a quick search on LDS.org and found the sermon on the temple. It had essentially the same exact "secret" information open to any who read it. The same information that this author was "exposing" and that Mormons are supposedly hiding, but his sermon was in context and was a beautiful explanation on the importance of the temple experience.

[Backroads]

I think that's what got me--that attitude combined with everyone's comments.

[frog75]

Thanks for posting on this topic. I joined the church 2 1/2 yrs ago and was sealed to my hubby and son last Summer. I am really interested at this point in my life in knowing everything about Joseph Smith but don't want any details left out about his life. I have been on the internet too, and it is so hard to know what to believe! There are so many anti-mormon writings out there. I have learned to really lean on the spirit and pray about my questions. I am hoping to find true answers so I can build my testimony.

Edited August 6, 2012 by frog75

[NightSG]

I am really interested at this point in my life in knowing everything about Joseph Smith but don't want any details left out about his life.

Um, yes, you do. The Prophet was still human, and there are certain details we want left out of anybody's account.

[annewandering]

Um, yes, you do. The Prophet was still human, and there are certain details we want left out of anybody's account.

Why? He was human and he was a prophet. Most of what you are referring to is gossip and lies anyway. Most if not all. We are not a secret church. Open truth is so much better to deal with than lies and hidden truths.

The antimormons and satan will seek out anything they can to cause people to lose faith. even things that are just not talked about.

There is a really great show on sundays on byutv called the Joseph Smith Papers. it is wonderful. They dont dwell on mistakes but I dont see that they hide things either. at the least its a good start on knowing more about Joseph Smith.

[bytebear]

Rough Stone Rolling was the best coverage of Joseph Smith I have ever read in one book. It didn't hide anything, but it used Smith's own words and people who actually knew him to paint the picture. It seems the further removed the person is from knowing Smith, the more outlandish and scandalous the stories got. In fact, most of the non-Mormon accounts of meeting Smith are quite positive considering what these peole heard about him before meeting him.

(one quick example. Smith was put on trial for swindling a farmer out of money, but the farmer actually testified FOR Joseph Smith)

[frog75]

Why? He was human and he was a prophet. Most of what you are referring to is gossip and lies anyway. Most if not all. We are not a secret church. Open truth is so much better to deal with than lies and hidden truths.

The antimormons and satan will seek out anything they can to cause people to lose faith. even things that are just not talked about.

There is a really great show on sundays on byutv called the Joseph Smith Papers. it is wonderful. They dont dwell on mistakes but I dont see that they hide things either. at the least its a good start on knowing more about Joseph Smith.

Thanks. I am at the point where if I have to know the good and bad. I am not going to feel right continuing to wear garments, do temple work, and have my son singing about Joseph Smith if I cant know with all my heart who he was. I love the church and my ward. I just want to have the whole story so I can fully commit and start saying "I believe," instead of telling people what the church believes.

[annewandering]

Thanks. I am at the point where if I have to know the good and bad. I am not going to feel right continuing to wear garments, do temple work, and have my son singing about Joseph Smith if I cant know with all my heart who he was. I love the church and my ward. I just want to have the whole story so I can fully commit and start saying "I believe," instead of telling people what the church believes.

Just remember he was a man and he is not here to defend himself. It was said he would be known for good and evil. Not because of what he did good but because of him being a prophet and not perfect.

[CarstenNorgaard]

I am not sure where the discussion in this thread is right now. Just saw the OP's experience and decided to share something here.

About 5 years ago I was completely inactive. I was sad. I had a ton of personal problems and the majority (meaning ALL) of my time was spent sitting in a depressed mode at the computer. Something about the misery made me decide to find out if what my parents had taught me as a kid really had something to it or not. But not on their terms, or the Church's terms. I would use the Internet. Everyone's secrets are available there.

I didn't get into the temple stuff right away. I was reading a lot of anti-Mormon literature and also general literature that was just critical of the Church and its beliefs. And I was also reading the LDS apologetics and doing my best to understand the actual doctrine. The doctrine itself it often not understood by the faithful adherents to a faith. No matter which religion we are talking about. This includes the members of this one, and I still find that kind of a struggle.

But then one day I decided to go to YouTube to learn more, and learned more about the temple. A video there showed the very things you really do promise to not share. It was a moment of surprise and also disgust, because what was really going on was so innocent and simple and symbolic. But someone had decided to share it against all advice with direct, powerful feelings of evil meanspiritedness and an intention to harm the members of the Church. I could feel the presence of evil so strongly that time, it made me disgusted. And I was already quite experienced with feelings of what happens when you sin.

It became a great testimony to me. It became a witness that the powers of good and evil actually do exist. They are not relative. There was nothing going on in that video that I felt was immoral. I may well have disagreed so strongly with that person who uploaded it, but why did that cause feelings of shame for watching it on my part? Feelings of spiritual pain? It must mean that this balance is real.

That means evil is real. On the other hand, memory and experience tells me that when I do the opposite, something good happens. Peace. So good must also be real.

So there's a universal constant of good and evil. It helped me because by knowing that and experiencing it, I was able to check the truths of the gospel in the scriptures and everything else. I was able to recognize that the feelings of peace and comfort DID in fact come from the principles and ideals that God advocates in this Church. It was a huge evidence that God lives and that this is his sponsored organization on earth.

When we run into the forces of evil, let's shun it and then go fill our spirits with a nice spiritual "glass of living water". Those bad feelings are a sign of danger. Let's flee and go focus on something better and more spiritual.

I say that in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[Backroads]

Why? He was human and he was a prophet. Most of what you are referring to is gossip and lies anyway. Most if not all. We are not a secret church. Open truth is so much better to deal with than lies and hidden truths.

The antimormons and satan will seek out anything they can to cause people to lose faith. even things that are just not talked about.

I agree with this.

We run into trouble if we hope Joseph Smith was a perfect man, but it's important to look for fair-minded information on his life.

I've seen so many facts that may not be the most pleasant, but become all the worse when some anti decides to put a bad spin on them.

In my opinion, if you are not sure your testimony of the gospel is altogether separate from the human nature of Joseph Smith, it's probably best to avoid research until you're more solid.

Otherwise, if you want to know, I see no reason not to search as long as you do it fairly.

[Backroads]

Carsten, thanks so much for sharing that.

[Blackmarch]

It's just amazing how quickly all good feeling will leave the room when that sort of stuff comes on the screen. It was like I actually felt the presence of evil.

This is the danger of anit-mormon, anti-christian propaganda., rather than the information itself as many critics would have us believe.

When the spirit leaves we become blind.